SP - General Item Feedback 1.71

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Csatádi

Grandmaster Knight
Ornate Legionary Scale Mail: this is not a scale but a lamellar armor. (Ornate) Bronze Lamellar Armor would be a better name. There is no such a thing as 'scale mail' at all, only scale armor. Mail is not a synonym for armor, that's a gamey expression from D&D roleplaying games.
This is the best looking, flashy armor in your entire game, you could even advertise the game with this armor. Give it lords to appear more often or to appear at all. You should add some more Byzantine stuff to the game, because their armors are perfect to Bannerlord. They both look awesome and historically appropriate, too. Byzantine armors look better than fantasy ones, because they look real. There are barely games where we can see Byzantine styled lamellar armors. Most games use simpler variants from steppe peoples, as you do, too.
The defensive capabilities of this piece are highly underrated and the weight is overrated. It has two protective layers, lamellae and mail on the torso! I'd say the body armor should be 60 (or 57 the current max), arms 3, legs 18, weight 15.5 Weight is calculated by counting a sleeveless mail, about 6 kg, cuirass 5.5 kg (bronze multiplier included), the whole multiplied by 30%, the the lordly thickness-protection-weight modifier I use. So 15kg in total. Plus 0.5 kg clothing if you wish.
This is my set, it would look cool on lords, too:
BL-ornate-legionary-armor-set.jpg



Mail coifs has not much sense as separate headgears. The OPEN coif is entirely a fantasy thing.
Your standard coif doesn't protect the chin and/or the mouth as real coifs would.


Horse armors provide too much protection. For example chain mail horse armor provides 55, while many mail for people provides only 26. This is just an example, all horse armor are too good.


Cataphracts Half Scale Barding should give about 50 armor (on this scale) instead of 60. For 80 kg, it's too good. It doesn't protect the back parts at all.


Two-Handed Cleaver is awful as a 1h weapon, you should give it rather a 2h only handle, so we don't need to shift ever.


Sparring Broadsword has 72 blunt swing damage, thus it's better than maces. Make it unavailable in shops if this is an arena weapon.


This armor + shoulder guard set doesn't fit. Ukhai
BL-weird-armor-combo.jpg


Do not morph headgears on the front that much. There is a gap between the head and the headgear.


Use higher appearance value on silk clothing. Silk was expensive. I don't have sources but I can imagine it worth more than a gambeson. Even a gambeson with 12 real linen layers. I use appearance of 10 on them. List:
Ladies Dress
Red Dress
Decorated Thick Tunic
Envelope Dress
Luxury Kaftan
Silk Kaftan
Silken Noble Dress
Toga



A LITTLE BIT OF ARMOR BALANCE

Generally their weight is overestimated. The modern replicas are heavier than the originals. The weight of the originals roughly equals to replicas with 1.2 mm thickness, at least in the case of helmets. Their thickness was different in key and secondary areas so direct measurements will vary.
The numbers I provide here are calculated to fit your scale, AKA the paper armors.
I use a system to evaluate the protection, so I cannot keep the hundreeds of items in my mind to compare a new one.
I use +30% weight-protection-thickness modifier to lordly items, 15% for items with 'heavy', 'reinforced' or similar tag in their name. I never use more than 30% so the protection can be compared to other lordly items.
It's subjective what we consider lordly, therefore thick armors.

Top underrated armors.
-Ornate Legionary Scale Mail - discussed at the beginning in detail. Suggested values: Body 36->57, Arms 6->3, Legs 15->18, Weight 15.5, Appearance far lower.
-Scale Warlord Armor - double layer for body, it's a good armor as its name also suggests. But limbs aren't that protected at all. The quality armor is worn over ragged and dirty clothes which is quite odd. The faction color overlay doesn't appear on this armor, which might be a bug, Idk. B 37->55, A 16->6, L 18->8
-Luxury Scale Armor - Quality piece. Full mail sleeves should be represented in the stats. B 47->57, A 14->26, W 20.6
-Heavy Lamellar Vest - The fancy alternated steel-bronze design suggests elite use, the 'heavy' tag doesn't represented either. B 28->38,
-Banded Leather Over Mail - B 29->38, A 8->4, W 8.6->10
-Gambeson over Mail Armor - Full mail arms! B 29->38, A 8->20, L 15->10

Mail in general is underrated, they are barely better than gambesons.

Top overrated armors
-Leather Strips Over Padded Robe - This protects more than mail and lamellae? Strange. However leg armor is underrated. B 36->27, A7->3, L6->12
-Rugged Scale Armor - this rugged piece protects more than a brand new mail. B 31->26, L 7->5, W 9.1->6
-Leather Armor - It's almost like mail. B 22->18, Appearance 1.5


Top underrated helmets
-Feathered Spangenhelm - it's a good helmet with cheekguards and everything, even lords wear it. 26->47
-Segmented Cevelliere Over Mail Coif - Full coif which means double layers on the top. 28->42
-Kettle Helmet with Mail - Very-very protective helmet for a common soldier. 36->49
-Segmented Skullcap Over Laced Coif - It has even a nasal bar. 17->29
-Nasalhelm over Leather - 23->31
-Helmet with Faceguard - The cheekguards and nape guard protect you. 25->36
-Feathered Spangenhelm over Leather - Cheekguards, nasal, nape guard, lordly helmet. 36->47
-Nasal Cervelliere over Mail Coif - Full coif which means double layers on the top. 36->46
-Kettle Hat Over Mail Coif - This is a very protective set even without any thickness multipliers. Common soldiers probably didn't have this level of protection in the high medieval period, this is rather a 15th century thing. 42->52
-Feathered Spangenhelm over Coif - Lordly, protective bronze helmet. 42->52
-Spiked Kettle Over Mail - Very good and protective set, the coif provides double protection on the top. 27->36
-Pointed Skullcap over Mail Coif - Full coif which means double layers on the top. 37->46
-Feathered Spangenhelm over Mail - Lordly, protective bronze helmet. 42->51
-Nasal Helmet Over Mail Coif - Full coif which means double layers on the top. 38->46

Top overrated helmets

-Mailed Nasal Helmet - It's just a simple helmet 49->33, Weight 3.15->1.7
-Goggled Helmet over Leather - It's just a simple helmet 46->31
-Sea Raider Goggled Helmet - It's just a simple helmet. 50->36 W 3.2->1.7
-Luxury Turban Over Helmet - We can assume it's thick, quality stuff, but still just a cervelliere. 42->31 W 2.8->1.5
-Visored Helmet Over Padded Cloth - It's protective, but common quality. 42->35 W 3.3->1.6
-Visored Helmet Over Laced Coif - Same as above but the throat is covered, too. 46->36 W 3.2->1.7
-Mameluke Helmet with Mail - It's just a simple helmet. I assume it to be a bit thicker than the basic, helmets, still doesn't deserve more than this. 45->35 W 2.9->1.7
-Steel Nasal Cap - Like the Mailed Nasal Helmet above, but the mail nape guard was cut off. This helmet doesn't make much sense. But if you want some stats: 35->26 W 2.4->1.3
-Full Helm over Padded Cap This helmet doesn't make much sense without a proper coif. 48->41
-Heavy Nasalhelm Over Leather - The helm is massive, but not lordly quality. 48->41 W 3.4->2.4
-Plumed Decorated Mailed Nasal Helmet - Even assuming lordly quality, the helmet doesn't protect that much. 49->43 W 3.2->2.2

Shoulder armors
-Cured Studded Leather Armor - The name should be Cured Studded Leather Pauldrons. High body armor but they barely cover the body, but the arms. Body 13->2
-Heavy Lamellar Pouldrons - Same issue. And a typo: pauldrons. Body 17->3 Arm 9->17 Weight 3.5-> 2 or even lighter
-Lamellar Pauldrons - Too much body armor and low arm armor. The current weight is equivalent to the weight of a lamellar cuirass. B 16->7, A 6->14 W 5->3
-Lamellar Shoulder Guards - It protects the body more. The weight was copied from another piece for sure. B 0->3, A 6->3 W 5->1
-Mail Shoulder Guards - It protects the arms, too. Mail capes weigh far less. A 0->3 W 2.7->2
-Mail Shoulder Pieces - W 4.5->1.4
-Mail Shoulder Reinforcements - Quite underrated lordly piece. B 7->14, A 0->4 W 4.5->2.5
-Reinforced Lamellar Shoulder Guards id="a_brass_lamellar_shoulder_white_b" - Underrated. B 0->3, A 10->14, W 5->2
-Reinforced Lamellar Shoulder Guards id="a_brass_lamellar_shoulder_b" - Bronze. Underrated. B 0->3, A 8->14, W 5->2.2
-Reinforced Studded Neckguard - Only leather. B 17->8 (or less) W 1.9->1
-Reinforced Studded Shoulder Guards - Only leather. B 17->8 W 2.3->1.4
-Ringmail Shoulder Guard - Only leather with minimal steel. B 11->6 W 2.5->0.8
-Lamellar Shoulder Pieces - The most protective of all. B 12->14, A 3->14 W 5->4
-Rough Bearskin - It shouldn't protect more than metal. B 16->12
-Bear Pelt B 14->10
-Bronze Lamellar Shoulder Pieces - The same as Lamellar Pauldrons, maybe the name should be similar, too. B 16->7, A 6->14 W 3.5->3.3
-Scale Shoulder Guards - It doesn't really cover the arms. 2 points, maybe? It would fit Battanian scale as well. A 7->2 W 4->2
-Bronze Scale Shoulder Guards - Same as above A 7->2 W 4.4->2.2
-Reinforced Bronze Scale Shoulder Guards Too heavy W 6.8->4.5

Leg

-Reinforced Suede Boots - I don't really know what are those pieces tied to the boots. They are shiny like metal in some points. If they are metal, the weight should be 2.3 like the similar empire boots. If they're leather, they shouldn't protect as much as metal, so lower the armor value from 20 to 14.
-Lamellar Plate Boots - They offer the best leg protection in the game. 19->26

Arm

-Lordly Padded Mittens - Barely a small plate. 18->14, Appearance 2, Weight 1.3->0.8
-Reinforced Padded Mittens - The same plate without decoration. 18->12, Appearance 1, W 0.9->0.8 (to fit the previous one)
-Fian Bracers - Only leather with decoration. 18->12, Appearance 2
-Plated Striped Gauntlets - They don't protect the hands. 22->19
 
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After some more research, this type of bronze spangenhelms don't fit the lords. Their surface looks neglected, better for common soldiers. But I think in a proper army like the Empire has, soldiers are required to maintain their equipment and this might be too dirty even for them.
The 'old' tag would fit to this type, there are 4-5 types of them. Or change the texture.
I know researching this subject is hard. Today I just found a site where a guy intentionally applied patina on his bronze watch. What was even more interesting, this patina can be removed using vinegar. This must be known in an era where bronze is used. So use some vinegar on this helmet, please, that would be the best solution probably. The yellowish color would be fine.
And finally I think the cheek guards would look better if they are bronze, too.

BL-not-lordly-quality.jpg
 
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My full list of items I consider should be civilian items in addition to the current pieces.
These contain no, or minimal metal.


BODY

aketon
armored baggy trunks
Auxiliary Armor
Auxiliary Armor with Straps
baggy trunks
battanian kilt over tartan trousers
battanian long tartan
battanian tartan
battanian tartan with chest plate
belted leather cuirass
Boarskin Leather coat
cheap colored clothes
cheap paddings
crude hide armor
cured leather lamellar shirt
Cured Studded Leather Armor
fur armor
fur coat over tunic
fur skirt
fur skirt with tunic
fur waistcoat over tunic
Leather Armor
leather tabard
mirrored leather armor
Padded Cloth with Strips
padded footman coat
padded leather overcoat
padded short coat
reinforced suede armor
ring mail
rough fur armor
sleeveless fur coat
sleeveless padded coat
sloven leather
studded fur armor
studded leather armor
studded leather coat
studded leather over aketon
Tunic with Shoulder Pads
woven leather vest

SHOULDER

bear pelt
chained fur cloak
cured leather pouldrons
cured leather shoulder pieces
fringed cloak
heavy tartan cape
leather shoulder guard
legionary padded straps
Leopard pelt
padded leather shoulders
reinforced harness with cape
shoulder harness
tartan cape
tartan shoulder harness
wolf pelt cape
woodland cloak
Woodland fur cape

HEAD

closed head scarf
cloth hood
hide cap
leather studded helm
leather studded helm over headcloth
leather studded helm over thinhide
padded coif
padded half coif
padded leather cape
peaked fur hood
rough padded cap
thick fur hood
tight head scarf
wolf head

ARMS

Lordly Padded Mittens
Padded Vambraces
Reinforced Padded Mittens
studded leather vambraces
studded vambraces
Woven Leather Bracers



This should NOT be a civilian item, because it's a metal armor covered by leather.

Thick Brigandine Vest
 
Agree of the list of civilian items. In addition I think Brigandine Vest might need a nerf or a tier raise, since it's light and strong. The loss of arm armor is minor for how much body armor it has.
 
The Hunting Bow should have no culture. There is no simple bow available to start learning archery. Currently bows without difficulty can be bought only in Battania.
 
One more thing I would add is that items titled "thick" or "heavy" are currently inconsistent with where they fall on weight relative to similar items that aren't.
 
Instead of picking other unbalanced items in new posts, I just uploaded my armor calculator. Everything in there is my opinion of course. I created these spreadsheets it especially for helmets and body armors.
When judging armors we just need to see what parts of the soldier are covered by what material. Apply quality multiplier if needed, especially for elite armors. The 'final' column contains the modded armor value. I hope the formulas at the bottom of the spreadsheets explain well my methods.
I wanted detailed parts for the legs and arms of armors but currently I don't play the game so maybe later.

 
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