Italy at War, reasearch thread.

[CinuzIta]

Here's the thread for the researcher to post what they discover:


Political situation in the Italy of the XIII century:

The city Lordship represents institutional evolution of many city municipalities in center-northerner Italy  around the half of XIII the century.
The stronger and rich lords succeeded therefore to obtain the faculty to designate to own successor, thus giving beginning to lordship's dynasties through the emperor authorization, that he often granted to the title it of Duke (behind strong compensations from the lords). They remained however working the communal institutions, although often they were limited to ratify the decisions of the lords. The more important were those of the De Medici, Gonzaga and Sforza. But also those of Della Torre, Visconti, Montefeltro, Estensi, Della Scala and Malatesta had, in various moments, remarkable importance.

This situation was made possible by the inability of the German monarchs to maintain control in the northern Italy and thanks to the little difficulty that the lords met for being recognized like legitimate authority.


Here's a list of lordships and locations:

For the imperial territory

Town    Lordship
Milano    Della Torre, Visconti, Sforza
Verona    Della Scala
Mantova    Gonzaga

And then in the Papal territory:

Town        Lordship

Ferrara    Estensi
Ravenna    Da Polenta
Bologna    Bentivoglio
Rimini    Malatesta
Cesena    Malatesta
Forlì    Ordelaffi
Faenza    Manfredi
Imola    Alidosi
Fano    Malatesta
Foligno    Trinci
Camerino    Varano
Gubbio    Gabrielli
Urbino    Da Montefeltro
Perugia    Baglioni

 

[CinuzIta]

Political situation in Milan around the years 1250-1275:

i found out that, if you're plannin of makin the mod start at 1259, you could make the faction leader be Martino della Torre (Martin of the Tower), that were the city's "Captain of the people" (Capitano del Popolo, in italian) and that, after the battle against Ezzelino da Romano (Seignur of Verona), assumed extraordinary powers inside the city...the "Della Torre" dinasty, "reigned" from 1259 till 1273...

more specifically:

at the beginnin of the XIII century, Milan had over 100.000 abitants, and was economically well-organized due to the trades and on the industries.

After the battle with Ezzelino da Roma (1259) lord of Verona, Vicenza, Padova and Treviso, Martino della Torre, that was the city's captain of the people managed to reach extraordinary powers inside the city, inheritated to his brother Filippo, at the time of his death. After Filippo was the time of Raimondo, bishop of Como and Leader of the Lombard League, to lead Milan and the lombard cities from the 1265 to the 1273, thank to the powers he had achieved.
The "della Torre" family, in this way, seemed to have achieved definitely the control of the city, but the ghibelline side, leaded by the "Visconti" family, was waitin for the right moment to strike.
Infact, with the approvation from the HRE's emperor, Henry VII, Matteo Visconti managed to take the power for himself: with him start the leadership of the Visconti in Milan, that will reach his maximum power with Gian Galeazzo Visconti in the 1359.

And here's a list of stendard and banners for Milan:

the lombard cross, emblem of the city (only the red cross on the white shield):

Spoiler

war stendard used by the city, and then from the "Visconti" family:

Spoiler

stendard of the "della Torre" family:

Spoiler

 

[Rath0s]

Good.

 

[CinuzIta]

Political situation in Rome, about the second half of the XIII century:

In Rome there was a comunal way of govern, formally approved by the pope but in the reality the lead of the city was in the popes' hands.

The popes were tied to the various nobiliar families (such as Orsini, Colonna, Savelli, Annibaldi, Caetani) that were able to nominate the members of the senate of the city, and to control the work of the state's functionary.

So, the pope controlled the city, but gave beneficies to the nobility to have their approvement and to avoid insurrection, just as in a feudal sistem.

the pope that you'll have to put in game will depend on the starting date, since it was rare that a pope, in that years, lasted more than few years...

 

[Rath0s]

The Popes, did they sit on their ass commanding or did he ride to battle himself?

 

[CinuzIta]

The Popes, did they sit on their ass commanding or did he ride to battle himself?

it was rare that a pope command an army himself...very rare...i'm sure someone did, but i can't find out right now...

 

[Gaxleep]

Here's a chronological list of events in the course of about one hundred years

1250 Died of Federico II.

1254-1273 Vacation of the title imperial it (great interregnum), concluded with
the rise to the throne of Rodolfo d' Asburgo.

1266 Carlo d'Angiò, brother of Luigi IX, defeats Manfredi,
after Federico II in the reign of Sicily, to Benevento.

1268 Beheaded to Naples Corradino di Svevia.

1270 Seventh crusade, aborted for died of Luigi IX.

1282 Vespri Siciliani; disembarkation of Peter III.

1285 Died of Peter III and Carlo d'Angiò. Filippo IV the Beautiful king of
France until 1314.

1294-1303 Bonifacio VIII Pope.

1296 Federico king of Sicily.

1300 Bonifacio VIII proclaimed the Giubileo.

1302 Filippo IV convenes for before turns the states generates them. Peace of
Caltabellotta; Peter III king of Trinacria to life.
Bubble Unam Sanctam, supremacy of the church

1303 Died of Bonifacio VIII after the slap of Anagni

1307 Killed Dolcino, dispersed its follow to us.

1309-1376 Avignonese Captivity.

1310-1313 Enrico ways comes down in Italy and dies.

1322 Ludovico IV the Bavaro emperor.

1325 Before turned peasant in Fiandra.

1327 Reduction in Italy di Ludovico IV, crowned to Rome from Sciarra
Column.

1328 Muore Carl IV, and extinguishes the dynasty of the Capetingi.

1337 War of the One hundred Years between Edoardo III and Filippo .

1338 Died of Lahntein and Rhens; elective and independent emperor from
Pope.

1345 Battle of Crecy. They come killed 16000 French knights.

1347-1354 Cola di Rienzo become “tribuno of the people”.

1350 Died Filippo .
Comes King Giovanni II.

1356 captured Giovanni II to Poitiers.
King Carl V.

1358 Jacquerie.

 

[Mandrake(83)]

I think that here,there is a good rapresentation of the political situation of  Italy:


But make attention,some states are vassals of the Holy Roman empire.

 

[Mandrake(83)]

The Popes, did they sit on their ass commanding or did he ride to battle himself?

In this period,no one Pope.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

The Popes, did they sit on their ass commanding or did he ride to battle himself?

In this period,no one Pope.

Since Popes came from noble families, they were usually very well learned in war issues, but they usually were elected while old and unable to travel a lot, not to talk about fighting. But some Popes did. I can think only of Julius II, Giuliano della Rovere, but that's a very late example (XVth Century)...

Being old, hardly a Pope could fight on battle. Although others, being very old, led war campaigns. As did Enrico Dandolo, Doge of Venice, with its ninety-few and blind leading the Fourth Crusade (although he surely didn't fight on battle).

So I guess it depends on the Pope's age and belicosity.

Take care!

 

[Lord Yakzal]

Hello everyone.

Well im new at the forum, I really like M&B and had played a few times BaW...

About Italy at war, I have been dedicating some time to investigate about who commanded papal armies and had found that there was like a council of war that designes a cardinal like the general of the army.

Hopes this help, and sorry for my english.

 

[VonSchkoppe]

Flag of Republic of Venice until XIV century:

Doge of Republic of Venice in 1380-Dogi della Serenissima repubblica

-Andrea Contarini

 

[caprera]

I still haven't found an higher quality one but Della Torre emblem was more like this: with the tower (torre), even if the imperial eagle is not necessary...

 

[Rath0s]

English please. 

 

[caprera]

Updated Della Torre\Torriani emblem.
http://www.ugopozzati.it/CavaliereTorriani.htm

 

[kurunt]

Hi guys, I posted some infos in the Italian thread, but they suggested to post it here. But I noticed that you are already making research on the XIII century.

During my studies, I found that the XIII century in Italy can be split in the first and second half: before and after Federico II's death. The political situation drammatically changed after the death of the Emperor so I think you should take a decision on what historical period  to put the events. There will be lots of changes in the selection of  lords, cities, factions and so on...

The only suggestion I can give you now is that the first part of the century is much interesting, because of the presence of Federico II as emperor of the Two Sicilies, Innocenzo IV as Pope of Holy Roman Church (Patrymony of St. Peter) his enemy. He excomunicated him because he was a guelph.

You should also consider the two principal houses of Guelphs and Gibellins, fighting each others. This, linked to the choice of the  major families, can give us a good starting point in the creation of factions, people and political relations.

This link brings to my 1257 aD mod's post . It has some information that I found on the web:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,116533.msg2808284.html#msg2808284

I repeat, is really important to choose between the first and second half on the century for historical coherence.