It was not the Polish Republic

[Leaffordes]

We were occupied by the Soviets and with Poland we made a union so there is a difference. The Soviets didnt accept us as a nation and in the union with Poland both countries had equal rights.

As annoying as this guy might be, he does have a point.

Sure he has a point.
So let's rewrite history, change country names, because people of period, didn't know he will have point few hundred years later, and called their country wrong  .

Take it easy bro. I'm not saying I completely agree with him, I'm only saying that he has a point which he defends with reasonable arguments, not just ranting or whining like everybody else is saying he is doing. Someone even said he had to be banned! That would be censoring someone's opinion, and that goes against the free discussion of ideas, which is the basis for any democratic discussion.

Yes, that would have been wrong but this guy have already been noted from both admins and none-admins. Still, he brings up the same subject over and over again and that's called spamming, we know that the "Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth" is the correct name for the faction but it appeared to be some errors with that name, so there's really no reason to repeat it. Sadly, my curiosity goes that far that I'm willing to check every updated thread. And that's a pain in the ass cause every fresh post he's doing is basically old ones..

Maybe the developers are already working at this? Maybe not, but either way I have to beg you to stop, please.

If he is spamming, he is not spamming alone, as others are still replying to his posts, so... no, I don't think neither he has to be banned nor this thread has be locked. Discussion is still going on, wether you like it or not.

Umh, sorry what? Haven't you noticed anyone tired of him except me? Are you a fool or are you just playing one? You just pick the side of a spammer.. Do you think the developers are dumb? Dont you think they know what it takes do fix this? Don't you think he has been NOTICED? I'm sorry but who are you to make a change? I say let the developers answer his questions if so, not you. Troll.

Osviux, then why keep replying? I doubt being annoying will help much. Your first post was enough for them to understand that you would like it to be named "Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth" There's no point in keep replying.. Please, I'm suffering over here.

 

[Osviux]

Osviux, then why keep replying? I doubt being annoying will help much. Your first post was enough for them to understand that you would like it to be named "Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth" There's no point in keep replying.. Please, I'm suffering over here.

Because they arent doing anything

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is the best and most accurate name that cannot be used in the game due to the game engine's limitation. However I feel this is no excuse, and if the game engine is not capable of making the best name possible, the devs have to take steps in correcting it.

I agree. They are getting paid for it soo they should correct it.

 

[caddux]

We were occupied by the Soviets and with Poland we made a union so there is a difference. The Soviets didnt accept us as a nation and in the union with Poland both countries had equal rights.

As annoying as this guy might be, he does have a point.

Sure he has a point.
So let's rewrite history, change country names, because people of period, didn't know he will have point few hundred years later, and called their country wrong  .

Take it easy bro. I'm not saying I completely agree with him, I'm only saying that he has a point which he defends with reasonable arguments, not just ranting or whining like everybody else is saying he is doing. Someone even said he had to be banned! That would be censoring someone's opinion, and that goes against the free discussion of ideas, which is the basis for any democratic discussion.

Yes, that would have been wrong but this guy have already been noted from both admins and none-admins. Still, he brings up the same subject over and over again and that's called spamming, we know that the "Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth" is the correct name for the faction but it appeared to be some errors with that name, so there's really no reason to repeat it. Sadly, my curiosity goes that far that I'm willing to check every updated thread. And that's a pain in the ass cause every fresh post he's doing is basically old ones..

Maybe the developers are already working at this? Maybe not, but either way I have to beg you to stop, please.

If he is spamming, he is not spamming alone, as others are still replying to his posts, so... no, I don't think neither he has to be banned nor this thread has be locked. Discussion is still going on, wether you like it or not.

Umh, sorry what? Haven't you noticed anyone tired of him except me? Are you a fool or are you just playing one? You just pick the side of a spammer.. Do you think the developers are dumb? Dont you think they know what it takes do fix this? Don't you think he has been NOTICED? I'm sorry but who are you to make a change? I say let the developers answer his questions if so, not you. Troll.

Osviux, then why keep replying? I doubt being annoying will help much. Your first post was enough for them to understand that you would like it to be named "Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth" There's no point in keep replying.. Please, I'm suffering over here.

I'm at nobody's side. I'm at freedom of speech side. If you don't like the discussion, you can gtfo. If you're in pain, take an aspirin. And if it wasn't for this thread, they wouldn't have changed the name in the game! And there will be another patch soon, as the developers said, to make final adjustments, and they said they are looking for people's feedback, and this is part of this feedback. So you are the fool, if you're trying to stop this.

 

[Osviux]

Yes, if not for my moaning the name still would be Polish Republic And if not for the errors because of the lenght of the name it would be already Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I think instead of moaning all day i should write a nice letter to the developers asking nicely to try and fix it.

 

[Leaffordes]

We were occupied by the Soviets and with Poland we made a union so there is a difference. The Soviets didnt accept us as a nation and in the union with Poland both countries had equal rights.

As annoying as this guy might be, he does have a point.

Sure he has a point.
So let's rewrite history, change country names, because people of period, didn't know he will have point few hundred years later, and called their country wrong  .

Take it easy bro. I'm not saying I completely agree with him, I'm only saying that he has a point which he defends with reasonable arguments, not just ranting or whining like everybody else is saying he is doing. Someone even said he had to be banned! That would be censoring someone's opinion, and that goes against the free discussion of ideas, which is the basis for any democratic discussion.

Yes, that would have been wrong but this guy have already been noted from both admins and none-admins. Still, he brings up the same subject over and over again and that's called spamming, we know that the "Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth" is the correct name for the faction but it appeared to be some errors with that name, so there's really no reason to repeat it. Sadly, my curiosity goes that far that I'm willing to check every updated thread. And that's a pain in the ass cause every fresh post he's doing is basically old ones..

Maybe the developers are already working at this? Maybe not, but either way I have to beg you to stop, please.

If he is spamming, he is not spamming alone, as others are still replying to his posts, so... no, I don't think neither he has to be banned nor this thread has be locked. Discussion is still going on, wether you like it or not.

Umh, sorry what? Haven't you noticed anyone tired of him except me? Are you a fool or are you just playing one? You just pick the side of a spammer.. Do you think the developers are dumb? Dont you think they know what it takes do fix this? Don't you think he has been NOTICED? I'm sorry but who are you to make a change? I say let the developers answer his questions if so, not you. Troll.

Osviux, then why keep replying? I doubt being annoying will help much. Your first post was enough for them to understand that you would like it to be named "Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth" There's no point in keep replying.. Please, I'm suffering over here.

I'm at nobody's side. I'm at freedom of speech side. If you don't like the discussion, you can gtfo. If you're in pain, take an aspirin. And if it wasn't for this thread, they wouldn't have changed the name in the game! And there will be another patch soon, as the developers said, to make final adjustments, and they said they are looking for people's feedback, and this is part of this feedback. So you are the fool, if you're trying to stop this.

You're not even reading what I'm saying.. He have already been N-O-T-I-C-E-D, the developers are already A-W-A-R-E of this.

I'm not trying to stop anything but spam. And dude, won't you gtfo? You're not even taking this discussion any further.. I am by asking Osviux nicely to lay off with the unnecessary posts which already are as I said Noted, then maybe other people could come forward and say their suggestions as well without being ignored. Jesus, now people probably think I'm a spammer as well but that's okey with me (as long as a spammer knocks out another spammer and then disappears)

Osviux, you should definitely send a letter =)

 

[Gr0vZ]

He has. That's why the "Republic" was fixed and replaced with "Commonwealth". It was his report that came to fruition. Close enough? For some, who wanted to fix the political title (like me), it's an epic win. For others, like Osviux,  there are still things to be fixed. Since this thread actually resulted in something tangible, then why not let him seek his right, as long as he's determined to do so?
Since he's not wrong with his arguments and we're still talking about a faction name in the english language, the version of which he supports is totally correct, I see no flaw in his cause. I might even support it. And discuss it, like everyone should do... oh, and please, it's important that this thread keeps the form of an information source for all people interested to join the debate. On-topic arguments and counter-arguments. If you take things personal with someone, do try to bring up something useful to this discussion. At least for me, it's uncomfortable to read my way through looong posts that contain nothing but poison and acid towards some user.
Keep your head up high, Osviux.

 

[Osviux]

You're not even reading what I'm saying.. He have already been N-O-T-I-C-E-D, the developers are already A-W-A-R-E of this.

I'm not trying to stop anything but spam. And dude, won't you gtfo? You're not even taking this discussion any further.. I am by asking Osviux nicely to lay off with the unnecessary posts which already are as I said Noted, then maybe other people could come forward and say their suggestions as well without being ignored. Jesus, now people probably think I'm a spammer as well but that's okey with me (as long as a spammer knocks out another spammer and then disappears)

Osviux, you should definitely send a letter =)

Yeah "You should be banned" was very nice.

 

[Leaffordes]

You're not even reading what I'm saying.. He have already been N-O-T-I-C-E-D, the developers are already A-W-A-R-E of this.

I'm not trying to stop anything but spam. And dude, won't you gtfo? You're not even taking this discussion any further.. I am by asking Osviux nicely to lay off with the unnecessary posts which already are as I said Noted, then maybe other people could come forward and say their suggestions as well without being ignored. Jesus, now people probably think I'm a spammer as well but that's okey with me (as long as a spammer knocks out another spammer and then disappears)

Osviux, you should definitely send a letter =)

Yeah "You should be banned" was very nice.

I may have been rude, but I'm very sensitive when it comes to spamming or repeating messages, I really didn't mean to offend you. But now when the devs have seen your suggestion cant you just leave it for a moment and see what's happening next in the near future? Maybe it will be brought through? I think that it should be named
"Pol-Lit Commonwealth" as well, I'm not against you on this part =).

 

[Lithuanian_Soldier]

These are the problems I see with 'with fire and swords'

Spoiler

 

[Osviux]

Where did you made this picture?

 

[Evelyn]

We were occupied by the Soviets and with Poland we made a union so there is a difference. The Soviets didnt accept us as a nation and in the union with Poland both countries had equal rights.

Yep, and Stalin would be proud how he successfully change your look on best times of both of our nations history.

Both nations call their country "Rzeczpospolita", on official documents there was latin name "Res Publica Polonia", only russian sometime called whole country "Lithuania" (to show that for them there is no difrence between them).
How somebody  translated it to "Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth" it's magic for me (again i don't say it wasn't Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or Polish-Lithuanian Union etc, it just nation wasn't called this way). And I know it's more than commonly used over Internet, but that not proof anything (there is more strange or wrong things there).

The russians called it Lithuania everyone had their own name soo lets just agree with the english name that is used now by the historians and other good people

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (How the smart people say) ​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5803/comonweal.jpg

I thought noone cared, if noone cared there wouldnt be any arguements ;/

... How the smart people say? Are you basically calling out every single person on this thread and in the world who has not described it exactly as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?

It's the Polish Commonwealth. By your standards I am not smart, but the funny thing is, most of us don't really care about your standards specifically. If you presented your arguments more realisticly instead of saying things such as "I want everyone to see it by default!", a rather arrogant demand, I think your argument would be better received.

 

[caddux]

You're not even reading what I'm saying.. He have already been N-O-T-I-C-E-D, the developers are already A-W-A-R-E of this.

I'm not trying to stop anything but spam. And dude, won't you gtfo? You're not even taking this discussion any further.. I am by asking Osviux nicely to lay off with the unnecessary posts which already are as I said Noted, then maybe other people could come forward and say their suggestions as well without being ignored. Jesus, now people probably think I'm a spammer as well but that's okey with me (as long as a spammer knocks out another spammer and then disappears)

Osviux, you should definitely send a letter =)

Yeah "You should be banned" was very nice.

I may have been rude, but I'm very sensitive when it comes to spamming or repeating messages, I really didn't mean to offend you. But now when the devs have seen your suggestion cant you just leave it for a moment and see what's happening next in the near future? Maybe it will be brought through? I think that it should be named
"Pol-Lit Commonwealth" as well, I'm not against you on this part =).

Rude?! You are being an A-hole when you try to prevent people from debating! This is a forum and that's what it's meant for! Not only you were being agressive and unreasonable towards Osviux, stating that he even had to be banned, but also towards myself, when you deliberatly called me a fool, just because I joined the discussion and said he had a valid point! Thanks god neither the dev's nor the moderators listened to you, otherwise they wouldn't have changed the name, and would not be witnessing right now that the subject is not dead! New stuff still being brought to light! So, please, let people debate! Do not try to shut people's mouth! Don't be such an A-Hole!

 

[diggitydiggity]

A good thing that Osviux wants to send a nice letter to those "stupid racists" about a "***** country taking all the glory" 

(Just to point out that even tough he isn't entirely wrong, his way of presenting things ["I want, I want, I want,"] is extremely irritating)
And I do find that Polish Commonwealth is a logical alternative.

 

[Lithuanian_Soldier]

Where did you made this picture?

When you go to taleworlds select WFaS and then factions you will see it is named Polish republic and theres a typo.

 

[Schmon]

I suppose the 'Polish-Lithuanian' Commonwealth was an English development to differentiate from Cromwell's Commonwealth?  Maybe that's not true anymore but if you had mentioned a 'Commonwealth' in the 1860s most people would have assumed you were talking about Cromwell.

You mean 1680? Nope. At that time, no one would mess Cromwell's Commonwealth of England with the largest state in Europe, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  I guess, that thing in Britain was still referred to as "England", while the titular name was connected to the more popular one. If you mentioned it, most people would think of Poland, since it was the largest and the most influential political entity with that name.
[/quote

No, I actually meant 1860.  Especially in the nineteenth century, everything east of the Elbe was probably ignored within the Anglo-Saxon sphere.

 

[Osviux]

The official name of the Commonwealth was The Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Polish: Królestwo Polskie i Wielkie Księstwo Litewskie, Lithuanian: Lenkijos Karalystė ir Lietuvos Didžioji Kunigaikštystė, Ukrainian: Королівство Польське та Вели́ке кня́зівство Лито́вське, Belarusian: Каралеўства Польскае і Вялікае Княства Літоўскае). Prior to the 17th century, international treaties and diplomatic texts referred to it by its Latin name Regnum Poloniae Magnusque Ducatus Lithuaniae

So its seems there was a word Lithuania in treaties and diplomatic texts. And the official name included Lithuania also, but it would be really long. Some foreigners called it just Poland others Lithuania inhabitians prefered it as "Rzescpospolita" (Commonwealth) well it has and had many names, but players want to know what they are fighting soo just Commonwealth wouldnt work. Just Lithuania and Grand Duchy of Lithuania or Poland and Kingdom of Poland would also be stupid. The present name is also incorrect and stupid, i am afraid to imagine a pole playing the game and saying "Hurray i didnt know we had Vilnius" or some other player thinking that this is just Poland and not having a clue about Lithuania. The official name is even longer than the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and also is the name used in international treaties and diplomatic texts. So i think thats why it would be fair, good and better for everyone to call it Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Arguements would be avoided and it would be fair. Its the best option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth

I asked some people in a special forum for their opinions and also made a poll with all the names used in the game and the suggested one:
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5803/comonweal.jpg


When you click on this link notice the search tab and what is entered there:
http://www.google.lt/#hl=lt&sugexp=gsihc&xhr=t&q=Polish+Commonwealth&cp=12&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&**=0L&aqi=&aql=f&oq=Polish+Commo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=576c4582e061b536&biw=1280&bih=792

Also when this thread was started i asked my history teacher about this, i asked about the name and she said that Poland wanted to call it just Poland or something, but the noble family of Radvilis or as used in the game Radziwill or something similiar fought for the right naming the both nations how its supposed to be including Lithuania in it. So i think thats because Lithuania was included in the official name and international name.

Some guy also wrote that some foreigners called it just Poland, well some foreigners called it Lithuania, but i want to give an example. If foreigners called France Germany, and Germany France you would also be that stupid to call them soo? Another example a quote by some guy from www.historum.com in the Western - Eastern Europe thread:

As my father says: Estonia? Albania? Belarussia? Its all Russia to me...

I think this attitude is a sign of a lack of education. So because some stupid peasants called the Commonwealth Poland you dont have to be like them.

Perhaps this isnt very important because there are bugs to fix and gameplay to improve, but the change of name to Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth must be done sooner or later, not neccesarily now.

Atleast someone called it right... http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=313444

 

[diggitydiggity]

[quote author=Osviux]Some guy also wrote that some foreigners called it just Poland, well some foreigners called it Lithuania, but i want to give an example. If foreigners called France Germany, and Germany France you would also be that stupid to call them soo?
[...]I think this attitude is a sign of a lack of education. So because some stupid peasants called the Commonwealth Poland you dont have to be like them.
[/quote]

No it's more like calling The Netherlands Holland. In the case of the commonwealth it was just shorter and easier thus widely used.

Plus since you're quoting wikipedia, you forgot this part: "In the 17th century and later it became known as the Most Serene Republic of Poland (Polish: Najjaśniejsza Rzeczpospolita Polska, Latin: Serenissima Res Publica Poloniae)" 

 

[Gr0vZ]

I suppose the 'Polish-Lithuanian' Commonwealth was an English development to differentiate from Cromwell's Commonwealth?  Maybe that's not true anymore but if you had mentioned a 'Commonwealth' in the 1860s most people would have assumed you were talking about Cromwell.

You mean 1680? Nope. At that time, no one would mess Cromwell's Commonwealth of England with the largest state in Europe, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  I guess, that thing in Britain was still referred to as "England", while the titular name was connected to the more popular one. If you mentioned it, most people would think of Poland, since it was the largest and the most influential political entity with that name.

No, I actually meant 1860.  Especially in the nineteenth century, everything east of the Elbe was probably ignored within the Anglo-Saxon sphere.

Oh, well, true, but it's quite an irrelevant date, nonetheless.

 

[Osviux]

[quote author=Osviux]Some guy also wrote that some foreigners called it just Poland, well some foreigners called it Lithuania, but i want to give an example. If foreigners called France Germany, and Germany France you would also be that stupid to call them soo?
[...]I think this attitude is a sign of a lack of education. So because some stupid peasants called the Commonwealth Poland you dont have to be like them.

No it's more like calling The Netherlands Holland. In the case of the commonwealth it was just shorter and easier thus widely used.

Plus since you're quoting wikipedia, you forgot this part: "In the 17th century and later it became known as the Most Serene Republic of Poland (Polish: Najjaśniejsza Rzeczpospolita Polska, Latin: Serenissima Res Publica Poloniae)" 
[/quote]

Yes known, but not the official name and the XVII century is big, there is no exact date. It was just a title given by people for the things the Commonwealth did, but it was applying the pars pro toto synecdoche.

The Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth (since 1791 the Commonwealth of Poland)

So the Polish Commonwealth is just a name made out by Taleworlds and it was supposed to be Commonwealth of Poland and that explains why i couldnt find any information on the Polish Commonwealth. So the Commonwealth of Poland (Polish Commonwealth) was officialy used since 1791 and that also means that you cannot use the name Commonwealth of Poland (Polish Commonwealth) in the game which is based on the XVII century!

 

[diggitydiggity]

Yup, the XVII century was long, about 100 years
I just found funny that you didn't quote the part that didn't fit your argumentation, plus random passages from internet aren't really an exact source (check one wikipedia page in 2 or 3 languages: you quite often get major differences)

Polish Commonwealth is a direct translation from Rzeczpospolita Polska.

And i'd still maintain that saying that it should be renamed to a name seldom used at the time, for historical credibility is kind of paradoxical.
In my opinion it wouldn't be a bad idea for education/information purposes if it would fit, and that commonwealth or polish commonwealth are logical alternatives.