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Svang

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The overfall feel is "floaty" and "clunky" for me. I don't feel in control of my movements the way I feel in WB. I hope they can fix it.
 

bestguy

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Combat is the same as warband but more in depth. We didn’t have directional shield blocking in warband for example. Warband combat was too easy and this is more challenging, which is a good thing.
 
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Jess_the_Hobozerk

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Combat is the same as warband but more in depth. We didn’t have directional blocking in warband for example. Warband combat was too easy and this is more challenging, which is a good thing.
Wait what. Do you mean directional shield blocking? If so yes they added that.

Because if you mean directional blocking in general. That has been a thing since Mount and Blade was called WarRider.
 

Sundeki

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Warband combat was too easy and this is more challenging, which is a good thing.
It's not more challenging, though. You're just fighting the fact that the game isn't letting you do anywhere near as much, leading to you getting killed because the game doesn't let you block left fast enough, or the weapon bounces off enemies for no reason. That's not more challenging, it's more rage inducing, and if taken to the inevitable conclusion will lead to a turtling metagame where the only way skilled infantry players can kill each other is with outside intervention. That's just bad game design, "challenge" has nothing to do with it.
 

bestguy

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It's not more challenging, though. You're just fighting the fact that the game isn't letting you do anywhere near as much, leading to you getting killed because the game doesn't let you block left fast enough, or the weapon bounces off enemies for no reason. That's not more challenging, it's more rage inducing, and if taken to the inevitable conclusion will lead to a turtling metagame where the only way skilled infantry players can kill each other is with outside intervention. That's just bad game design, "challenge" has nothing to do with it.
You are able to block every attack that comes your way but it is harder to do so. It is harder to predict the enemy’s swing direction based off the animation. It is harder to dodge arrows because you’re moving at a more realistic pace compared to warband. There are now two thrust directions. The stance mechanics... End result is, the game is more challenging and with challenge comes fun rather than tedious like warband.
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

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You are able to block every attack that comes your way but it is harder to do so. It is harder to predict the enemy’s swing direction based off the animation. It is harder to dodge arrows because you’re moving at a more realistic pace compared to warband. There are now two thrust directions. The stance mechanics... End result is, the game is more challenging and with challenge comes fun rather than tedious like warband.
I'm sorry but if you think the animation is going to make blocking much harder, you've never seen Warband duels. Same thing with thrust directions. Those are so trivial I almost want to think you are trolling when comparing the skill ceiling warband had to what's different in bannerlord.
 

bestguy

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I'm sorry but if you think the animation is going to make blocking much harder, you've never seen Warband duels. Same thing with thrust directions. Those are so trivial I almost want to think you are trolling when comparing the skill ceiling warband had to what's different in bannerlord.
The animation gives you less time to react. I found blocking in warband far easier because I had more time to react. Because of stances, positioning is also important now so you can adjust quicker.
 

Sundeki

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End result is, the game is more challenging and with challenge comes fun rather than tedious like warband.
Bannerlord's combat is rage-inducing tedium because you're held back by not being able to respond to events properly due to mechanically enforced delays that are as almost every agrees are way too much. Bannerlord is the tedious one because to be able to win a fight is purely reliant on things outside of your control, or slowing down the fight to the point where neither player can defeat the other.

There are now two thrust directions.
Purely cosmetic. There are overhead attacks and underhand attacks, as there was in Warband. In order to block an overhead thrust you block up.

It is harder to dodge arrows because you’re moving at a more realistic pace compared to warband.
It's not realistic. You move slower than a sloth in Bannerlord, unless you're a 2h rocket boots man. Warband's was closer to reality. You can find videos of people moving at very high speeds in full plate armor, and Bannerlord's armor system doesn't have any full plate.

You are able to block every attack that comes your way but it is harder to do so.
It's not "harder", you're just not allowed to do what you want your character to do. Less player agency is only a positive thing in horror games.
 

bestguy

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Bannerlord's combat is rage-inducing tedium because you're held back by not being able to respond to events properly due to mechanically enforced delays that are as almost every agrees are way too much. Bannerlord is the tedious one because to be able to win a fight is purely reliant on things outside of your control, or slowing down the fight to the point where neither player can defeat the other.
How is it outside your control? If you position yourself to the middle of the enemy you are able to block in any direction just in time. If you are to the right of the enemy then it’s your fault for not being able to block an attack to your left or behind you. To be good you need to move and position yourself smartly.

Purely cosmetic. There are overhead attacks and underhand attacks, as there was in Warband. In order to block an overhead thrust you block up.
There’s now two thrust directions to attack and block from. How’s that cosmetic? It is more things to consider in a fight.
It's not realistic. You move slower than a sloth in Bannerlord, unless you're a 2h rocket boots man. Warband's was closer to reality. You can find videos of people moving at very high speeds in full plate armor, and Bannerlord's armor system doesn't have any full plate.
That’s not my experience of warband. I was able to zig zag all the way at rocket speed.
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

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The animation gives you less time to react. I found blocking in warband far easier because I had more time to react. Because of stances, positioning is also important now so you can adjust quicker.
You must have fought bots. Warband's system had a very wonky setup that personally I didn't find enjoyable nearing the peak of the skill cap; where animations had very awkward transitions between each other. This led to the character spinning, jumping, feint spamming, crazy wacky movement because players manipulated this to break animation transitions and obfuscate them as much as possible. They did this while directing the actual contact point at the very last second for maximum damage during their spinning animation transition manipulation which gave opponents less than a tenth of a second to react.

Regardless of this wonky system, players were able to consistently defend and attack for duels that lasted minutes long, not including kicking and chambering, holding, etc. while performing all of this.

I personally hated that the combat became that way but it made the skill ceiling absolutely ridiculous. So, I'm sorry if you think a character spining his arm over his head to attack again, or lift his spear a little higher for an overhead stab is super difficult. To me, it's absolutely trivial in comparison to the ceiling warband had.
 
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bestguy

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You must have fought bots. Warband's system had a very wonky setup that personally I didn't find enjoyable nearing the peak of the skill cap; where animations had very awkward transitions between each other. This led to the character spinning, jumping, feint spamming, crazy wacky movement because players manipulated this to break animation transitions and obfuscate them as much as possible. They did this while directing the actual contact point at the very last second for maximum damage during their spinning animation transition manipulation which gave opponents less than a tenth of a second to react.

Regardless of this wonky system, players were able to consistently defend and attack for duels that lasted minutes long, not including kicking and chambering, holding, etc. while performing all of this.

I personally hated that the combat became that way but it made the skill ceiling absolutely ridiculous. So I'm sorry if you think a character spining his arm over his head to attack again, or lift his spear a little higher for an overhead stab is absolutely trivial in comparison to the ceiling warband had.
Being able to abuse a system to have an advantage doesn’t raise the skill ceiling it just means the system was broken.
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

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Being able to abuse a system to have an advantage doesn’t raise the skill ceiling it just means the system was broken.
It absolutely raises the skill ceiling. I don't believe it was a good way to raise it and it wasn't intentional by the developers; but it became the minimum standard to compete.

I personally do believe it was broken but when you are talking about multiplayer skill ceiling, warband's is drastically higher.
 

Sundeki

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
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There’s now two thrust directions to attack and block from. How’s that cosmetic?
Because in Warband those weapons still had an overhead anyway? You shift from a blunt swinging overhead to a piercing stab. It's easy to tell a down stab from an overhead stab, so it's not like one can confuse them. Meaning the change is essentially cosmetic due to you having to block the overhead regardless of what the animation looks like or the damage type is. That's what I mean by "cosmetic" since nothing has actually changed(except it's a bit easier to overhead now without hitting teammates with a massive overhead swing like in Warband, which I might add is probably a reason why spears are as strong as they are right now).

That’s not my experience of warband. I was able to zig zag all the way at rocket speed.
Rocket speed compared to what? To clarify: when I talked about rocket boots for 2h classes, it was relative. Based on character height in Warband, even when in the sprint speed with no armor and moving at top speed, the character was still not moving anywhere near as fast as a real human can in full plate, and they were naked. Watch someone parkour and tell me that "zig zag"ing is unreasonable. Especially from a game balance perspective. I normally don't like realism arguments, but even here what you're saying doesn't add up.

How is it outside your control? If you position yourself to the middle of the enemy you are able to block in any direction just in time.
Well first of all: no you can't. In order to be able to land an attack on a remotely skilled opponent, you need to engage in risky behaviour (extra feint, rotate your attack, the list is quite large). I'm not sure what skill bracket you're playing at, but the combat simply breaks down when the people fighting know how to play the game. Duels always degenerate into one of two things: ultra-campy safe behaviour for which the fight lasts indefinitely(or until another player comes in and breaks the stalemate), or risky behaviour which has a change of hitting your opponent, while effectively removing your capacity to block the enemy's attacks, turning the fight into a de facto RNG system where skill is essentially non-existent and chance dominates. This is not good game design.
 

bestguy

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It absolutely raises the skill ceiling. I don't believe it was a good way to raise it and it wasn't intentional by the developers; but it became the minimum standard to compete.

I personally do believe it was broken but when you are talking about multiplayer skill ceiling, warband's is drastically higher.
I don’t share your viewpoint. Bannerlord combat is much more in depth and rather than relying on abusing it in unintentional ways you can try to master it to be better in the way that it’s intended.
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

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I don’t share your viewpoint. Bannerlord combat is much more in depth and rather than relying on abusing it in unintentional ways you can try to master it to be better in the way that it’s intended.
Again, I never made a comment on whether the current bannerlord combat is great or not. I have a totally different opinion on how the current state is, that is too lengthy for just a comment, more worth a new thread. Personally I am super glad they added in better animation transitions and an overhead stab option.

I was just pointing out that warband was more difficult in multiplayer. Essentially as far as those 2 features go, they pretty much were already in warband though, through the disguise of a broken system. Minus shield/spear overhead attack and lance overhead attack.
 

Mynes

Knight at Arms
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I don’t share your viewpoint. Bannerlord combat is much more in depth and rather than relying on abusing it in unintentional ways you can try to master it to be better in the way that it’s intended.
The fact that you can't even land hits properly, experiencing blocking delays, and skating around as if you're playing ice hockey during groupfights makes bannerlord inferior to warband in terms of combat
 

bestguy

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The fact that you can't even land hits properly, experiencing blocking delays, and skating around as if you're playing ice hockey during groupfights makes bannerlord inferior to warband in terms of combat
There must be reasons why you’re not landing hits. It you’re using a long axe for example, connecting with the enemy by the handle does very little damage but connecting with the sharp metal bit does a lot. I don’t think warband had this kind of physics.
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

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There must be reasons why you’re not landing hits. It you’re using a long axe for example, connecting with the enemy by the handle does very little damage but connecting with the sharp metal bit does a lot. I don’t think warband had this kind of physics.
Warband absolutely had weapon tip sweet spots. As far as dealing damage goes, it's mostly the same but tuned very awkwardly. One new change was arrow speed factoring into damage where shooting a rider going away does less damage now, compared dealing more when riding towards you.