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Issues being granted a town

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BPow89

Recruit
So since the new update i can not get a town being a vassal, i was able to get a castle but if i take a town i am not one of the people shown to recieve it in the vote. Im getting very agrivated. I have taken many many towns but just cant get on the vote. can anyone help me out? is there a new system or requirment i need to know about
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
It needs to be close to your other fiefs I think. It really a bad system since the ruler gives them selves so much that everything is closer to their stuff. Although if you have the influence you should still be able to nominate yourself. You need to have more influence then you actually would spend though.
 

paladinx333

Sergeant at Arms
I can honestly say that I have never been granted a town that I have taken myself. Not one, ever. In my last game I just gave myself the towns that I captured using the dev console mod. If the king wanted some say on who gets the town, maybe he should have captured it himself.
 

Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
There's a lot more that goes into being granted a fief than just distance. There is an equation that is used to determine who gets on the ballot based on "Merit." The merit scores of all clans in a faction are tallied up and the top 3 clans with the best merit scores get on the ballot. Here's that equation:

Ballot-Merit-Equation.png


  • Clan Tier is self-explanatory (multiply by 30).
  • Total Clan Strength is the sum total of the party strength of all of the clan's vassal parties and garrisons, as well as the militia parties of towns, castles, and villages. Caravans and villager parties are not included though. Party strength is determined by the same formula that the autocalc system uses. It doesn't included wounded troops. Total clan strengths usually vary between 500 and 1500, but can be much higher for a ruling clan with many fiefs (which is somewhat balanced out by their additional fief values).
  • The No Fief Bonus is 30 if a clan has no fiefs and 0 otherwise.
  • The Capturer Bonus is 50 if the clan was the army leader that captured the new fief and 0 otherwise.
  • The Ruler Bonus is 100 if the clan is the faction's ruling clan and 0 otherwise.
  • The value of a settlement is calculated based on prosperity and hearths of bound villages, as well as whether or not the villages are looted. Each faction values an individual settlement differently based on average distance to the 6 nearest faction settlements, whether or not the settlement is owned by the faction, and whether or not the culture of the settlement is the same as the faction's. The values of settlements typically fall somewhere in the range of 400,000 to 4,000,000 depending on whether it's a town or castle and high or low prosperity.
  • The Distance Factor ranges from 0.47 to 2, and is determined by how close the fief is to a clan's current fiefs. It takes the average distance of a clan's 2 closest fiefs if they have 2 or more, the distance of the clan's only fief if they only have 1, and the Distance Factor defaults to 1 if a clan has no fiefs. The Distance Factor nearly always falls between 0.5 and 1 under normal circumstances.
I don't know what exactly factors into whether or not other clans will support your claim to a fief if you get on the ballot, but two things that definitely contribute to it are total clan strength and your clan's relations with other npc clans. I would guess that the higher your clan's merit score is the more likely another clan is to support you in the election.

So the things you can most directly control to improve your odds of getting on a ballot and winning the election are your clan tier, your total clan strength (use your companion parties to the fullest and don't skimp on garrisons), whether or not you captured the fief, and your relationships with other clans. You should also make sure you keep at least 100 influence in the bank to vote for yourself. You will hurt your chances of getting on the ballot if you have many highly prosperous yet poorly guarded fiefs.

Rulers have an advantage because of several factors. They are clan tier 6, which directly boosts their scores, but also allows them to keep larger parties which boosts their clan strength bonus. They also get the flat 100 point Ruler Bonus. They often lead the armies that besiege and capture fiefs. Finally, because the fief up for grabs is given to the ruler's clan initially, it is used as 1 of the 2 closest fiefs in the Distance Factor; and because the distance is 0, the average distance just becomes half their next closest fief's distance. One minor thing that you can do to hurt a ruler's chances of getting on the ballot is to prevent your army from donating troops to the newly captured settlement's garrison until after the election.

I also haven't looked into what controls a ruler's decision to overrule a vote or not.

Here's the method that handles most of the merit score calculations:
Calculate-Merit-Of-Outcome.png
 
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zenDzee

Veteran
There's a lot more that goes into being granted a fief than just distance. There is an equation that is used to determine who gets on the ballot based on "Merit." The merit scores of all clans in a faction are tallied up and the top 3 clans with the best merit scores get on the ballot. Here's that equation:

Ballot-Merit-Equation.png

Thanks for the detailed analysis. (y)

Edit:
Finally, because the fief up for grabs is given to the ruler's clan initially, it is used as 1 of the 2 closest fiefs in the Distance Factor; and because the distance is 0, the average distance just becomes half their next closest fief's distance.
I just made a small mod that fixes this, by changing default owner to capturer
C#:
        private void OnSettlementOwnerChanged(Settlement settlement, bool openToClaim, Hero newOwner, Hero oldOwner, Hero capturerHero, ChangeOwnerOfSettlementAction.ChangeOwnerOfSettlementDetail detail)
        {
            if (settlement.IsFortification
                && newOwner != capturerHero
                && detail == ChangeOwnerOfSettlementAction.ChangeOwnerOfSettlementDetail.BySiege)
            {
                ChangeOwnerOfSettlementAction.ApplyBySiege(capturerHero, capturerHero, settlement);
            }
        }
And it really works! Other lords began to vote for me.
 
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Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
I just made a small mod that fixes this, by changing default owner to capturer
Interesting, thanks for sharing! I'm sure it works well.

I tend to think that including the newly captured settlement in the calculation at all was just an oversight. Doesn't seem intended to me. I think the if statement at the start of the for loop should probably read:
C#:
if (settlement.OwnerClan == clanAsDecisionOutcome.Clan && settlement.IsFortification && settlement.Town != this.Settlement.Town)
That would check to make sure the captured settlement does not get lumped in with the rest of the clan's fiefs.

Then down where it calculates the totalStrength of the clan it could include something like,
C#:
float totalStrength = clan.TotalStrength - ((this.Settlement.OwnerClan == clanAsDecisionOutcome.Clan) ? this.Settlement.Party.TotalStrength : 0f);
to make sure the strength of the garrison party of the newly captured fief is not included in the owner clan's total party strength.

Edit: It would also need to subtract the militia parties from the captured fief + bound villages from the clans total strength as well. Originally I didn't think militia parties were counted in the total strength calculation, but it turns out they are as a "mobile party."
 
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zenDzee

Veteran
I tend to think that including the newly captured settlement in the calculation at all was just an oversight. Doesn't seem intended to me.
Probably you are right. But I believe that the capturer should have more merit to own the settlement than the ruler, who is already able to overrule the decision.
 

Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
Probably you are right. But I believe that the capturer should have more merit to own the settlement than the ruler, who is already able to overrule the decision.
Yep, I don't necessarily disagree, especially since the capturing clan's total strength will likely still be temporarily reduced from the casualties taken in the siege by the time the election rolls around. As a frame of reference though, the 50 point bonus from being the capturer is roughly equivalent to having 520 extra tier 2 troops added to your clan's total strength, which is not insignificant.
 

paladinx333

Sergeant at Arms
There's a lot more that goes into being granted a fief than just distance. There is an equation that is used to determine who gets on the ballot based on "Merit." The merit scores of all clans in a faction are tallied up and the top 3 clans with the best merit scores get on the ballot. Here's that equation:

Ballot-Merit-Equation.png


...

Really nice post.

Based on that formula I really should have been on the ballot for most of those towns as they were all clustered together. I had a high clan tier and my clan strength was really high as well. With the capturer bonus I should have at least merited consideration. Instead the choices were always lords that I never heard of with dubious loyalties at best.

I think the capturer bonus need to be seriously increased. At least that way the vassal that took the new fief would have a shot at getting to keep it.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
With the capturer bonus I should have at least merited consideration. Instead the choices were always lords that I never heard of with dubious loyalties at best.

Working through the math a few times, I think issue there is that new clans ("never heard of with dubious loyalties") effectively get a double bonus. Once from the flat no fiefs bonus then another boost by rating their distance as 1. Basically, the new clans get full power, while the player (usually) gets a fractional amount, assuming the player already has a fief.
 

zenDzee

Veteran
One thing I forgot to post earlier, but the Balancing Issues forum gets like, zero feedback at all. The higher level (Tech Support) Singleplayer forum does though.
Could you please re-post it on a higher level forum so developers can see it?
 
I tend to think that including the newly captured settlement in the calculation at all was just an oversight. Doesn't seem intended to me. I think the if statement at the start of the for loop should probably read:
C#:
if (settlement.OwnerClan == clanAsDecisionOutcome.Clan && settlement.IsFortification && settlement.Town != this.Settlement.Town)
That would check to make sure the captured settlement does not get lumped in with the rest of the clan's fiefs.
Funny that you mention it, that's exactly what I did with my mod here:
I uploaded it around April or so, I think.

But I believe that the capturer should have more merit to own the settlement than the ruler, who is already able to overrule the decision.
Well, I mean, as was mentioned up there, Capturer Bonus is a thing.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Funny that you mention it, that's exactly what I did with my mod here:
I uploaded it around April or so, I think.

Yeah! I was looking for this mod but I couldn't for the life of me remember its name or your's. At any rate, it is good to get this in front of the devs' eyes because it really does look like a design oversight.

Well, I mean, as was mentioned up there, Capturer Bonus is a thing.

"More merit." The Capturer Bonus is overruled by the Ruler Bonus, with room to spare. Even Capturer Bonus + No Fief Bonus doesn't match Ruler Bonus, although when combined with others it should get the player on the ballot more often than not.

But it can be pretty damned frustrating to invest in capturing your first fief for yourself, only to find yourself off the ballot, so I'm thinking maybe bump Capturer up a bit (around 50?) and reducing the Ruler Bonus (to 60?) should suffice to get a fief-less player on the ballot almost all of the time, unless his kingdom is just overrun with lacklands.

(but I might be off with those numbers because I'm not great at math or misunderstood the specific values, pls no bully)
 
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