is the reinforcement idea still in the game ?

Maximum997

Sergeant at Arms
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no, it would be a lot worse because it would really feel like the game's cheating units in out of fresh air.
1) But right now they spawn from thin air. They can spawn on your head or on top of your archers
2) defender advantage is just stupidly strong.

3) My tactic in huge battle is:
1) choose all my own troops
2) send them as far as possible.

Becouse they will be surrounded by waves of reinforcment from all sides and die.
 

TheShermanator

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Thought a little more, and here's another alternative to the replenishing formations idea (which I still also like).

Premise: Battlefield is 100 units (?) long.

The attacker's spawn point(s) should be on the 25 unit line, and the defender's spawn point(s) should be on the 75 unit line. The only spawn choices each army could make: moving the spawn line forwards or backwards up to 25 units. E.g Defender likes a spot near the back, so he moves his spawn point(s) to the 0 unit line. The attacker should be able to move his spawn zone to the 50 unit line. Defender advantage would still matter, would not be quite so punishing.
 

Maximum997

Sergeant at Arms
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Maybe if you could choose and move the spawn point? Otherwise, defending a spawn point away from the opponents spawn point becomes a really cheesy way for a smaller army to beat a larger force. The opponent in that case should be able to move up their spawn point.
Spawn points are moving, but:

1) You cant see then.

2) They are all over the place. So enemy archers spawned right in the back of my infantry and shooted my to the ground

3) Atackers spawn point is placed mile away from main fight. So you always have that stupid stream of reinforcements
 

Maximum997

Sergeant at Arms
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Thought a little more, and here's another alternative to the replenishing formations idea (which I still also like).

Premise: Battlefield is 100 units (?) long.

The attacker's spawn point(s) should be on the 25 unit line, and the defender's spawn point(s) should be on the 75 unit line. The only spawn choices each army could make: moving the spawn line forwards or backwards up to 25 units. E.g Defender likes a spot near the back, so he moves his spawn point(s) to the 0 unit line. The attacker should be able to move his spawn zone to the 50 unit line. Defender advantage would still matter, would not be quite so punishing.
First of all they need to make a formation based battles. With formation, battle ranks and structure. Not that moshpits or random mess.

Then they can spawm units right behind its formaton to run and replace killed guy. It solves a lot of problems.
 

TheShermanator

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First of all they need to make a formation based battles. With formation, battle ranks and structure. Not that moshpits or random mess.

Then they can spawm units right behind its formaton to run and replace killed guy. It solves a lot of problems.
Still agree that this is optimal.

But if it's a question of what's easier to implement as quickly as possible - in terms of minimizing controversy, dev time spent - I'd be open to a quicker fix of tightening up the spawn zone framework in the 2nd way that I've described. Anything is better than what they have now, I think. What they have now dominates every battle, is super cheesy, etc.
 

voronius

Sergeant
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Crazy idea but a "dead" unit could have lives if there's a "reinforcement unit" for it waiting.
And the dead gets subtracted from the waiting troops. So if you have many infantry (in reinforcements too) your shield wall or whatever formation will last a long time. And ratio (attacker vs defender) gets to be as it was at the start for
as long as possible . Probably wouldn't work either. Cause in this line of thought a unit is not longer
a simple unit but a representation of multiple units ... I dunno but as it is in warband is not ok either.
 
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AnandaShanti

Squire
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I would like there to be options for this stuff.
I don't want my own reinforcement sometimes, I should be able to opt not to have them.
Although it's a bit cheaty I think turning off enemy reinforcements would a good option too as it allows for some good tactics that get ruined by a bunch of guys spawning on top of you or a second wave suddenly flanking you when you're in a good position. Also, very often it just murders the AI anyways as get killed trying to join the main formations.

At the very least I think they should spawn at the very back of the map. I hate to be doing very well and see my reinforcements spawn in the middle of the enemies and get swamped. This is because I typically move my forces to the extreme back of the map when fighting a larger force, so the nenmy often ends up where my men spawn.

I would also like to choose not to let some troops come into battle at all, but that's different and probably not gonna happen.
 

MinhTien

Regular
WBVC
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They just need to fix the spawn point placement. Either make it dynamic so that they always spawn away from the middle of the fighting, or better, spawn them in the red zone so they come in from the map edge. And also, they should have horns blow or some kind of effect that you can't miss when the reinforcements do spawn. Then you can try to gather your guys together before the next wave hits.
+1.
I much prefer reinforcement to spawn from off-map. Popping out of thin air in the middle of the fight just look terrible and illogical.
 

Yormund

Veteran
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Love the horns/drums idea. Spawns should be located on the edge of the map, behind the backs of the troops as they were at the battle start. Instead of trickling in piece by piece, they should arrive in force once one side is wiped out completely and have a go at the winning side. Let the player decide the reinforcement queue and I think we would have a working reinforcement system. Current one is not working at all, as long as I win the initial engagement the rest is just mopping up the remnants of the opposing army.
 

Asimov123

Regular
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Personally I would like a flag that appeared where the reinforcments are going to spawn next, so I can see it. Preferably with some kind of counter, although that might break immersion too much.
 

Bjorn The Hound

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
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I hate spawn wawes anyway in any form.
I have an idea. It could be a mod or in the native game. It goes like this,

At the very beginning of the battle, spawning all soldiers proportionally with respect to their party size for battles exceeding battle size. So you have a 500 army against 1000 army, you would get 333 soldiers and enemy will get 666 soldiers and you will win or lose that battle with that soldiers, no wawes will be spawn. Anyone like this or disagree that this system can also its own issues?
 

voronius

Sergeant
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I hate spawn wawes anyway in any form.
I have an idea. It could be a mod or in the native game. It goes like this,

At the very beginning of the battle, spawning all soldiers proportionally with respect to their party size for battles exceeding battle size. So you have a 500 army against 1000 army, you would get 333 soldiers and enemy will get 666 soldiers and you will win or lose that battle with that soldiers, no wawes will be spawn. Anyone like this or disagree that this system can also its own issues?
I like that. Ofc it can be abused like setting rly small battle size and solowing 10 units by yourself if you're good, possible on any difficulty maybe.
But any solution can be abused. And it's single player and i don't care :smile: . I dunno why there aren't more options for single player regarding things like this
cause if you wanna have fun you should be able to.
 

karijus

Regular
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Lanchester's square law is very important, so what I'd like to see is battle going on in stages (it was like that in warband kinda), with no reinforcements. Like if it's 1000 vs 100, and the battle size is 500, then the initial battle would have to be like 45~ vs 450~, to keep the ratio of forces. Once this ends, next stage starts with fresh troops, and updated ratio. Troops that were already used and are wounded, could be kept in memory and sent to the back of the queue. Then let's say the 100 guys are uber elite, so they inflict 200 losses while losing 10, the next fight would be based off ratio of 800 vs 90, so 56~ vs 444~ giving a better force ratio.

Making tactics a factor of turning numbers in your favor would be nice, also the ability to choose which troops to send. This could make tactics skill pretty interesting. Medicine skill might heal or have a perk to heal those wounded troops that are in the back. All kinds of things could be done to make this interesting.

Removing reinforcements and replaced troops with fresh ones would make more sense too, as IRL you would want to send exhausted troops back anyway, and historical battles often happened in stages, with only part of the armies engaging, and this could last for days.

Reinforcements could be kept for sieges though, defenders advantage and all that.
 
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ileboii

Regular
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You could leave spawn zone, but not enter it. This applies to AI aswell.
And to prevent abusing it, maybe you had initial 20-30 seconds to leave the spawn, so you wouldn't camp there and wait for enemies.

Edit: I see this has been suggested already, several times too. Oh well, I'll leave the image there for anyone who needs visualization lol.
 

Maximum997

Sergeant at Arms
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Lanchester's square law is very important, so what I'd like to see is battle going on in stages (it was like that in warband kinda), with no reinforcements.
Yes. It is good solution. But everything s better then mess we have right now.
 

Lord Irontoe

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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I've played some Warband mods that removed all reinforcement waves so that you need to fight big battles in multiple smaller battles. For me it made big battles feel like a real chore and they'd take forever. I much prefer unlimited reinforcement waves, but an option to set the number of waves or disable them entirely would be a good idea.
 

K M

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
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I've played some Warband mods that removed all reinforcement waves so that you need to fight big battles in multiple smaller battles. For me it made big battles feel like a real chore and they'd take forever. I much prefer unlimited reinforcement waves, but an option to set the number of waves or disable them entirely would be a good idea.
This is the mechanic of vanilla Mount&Blade.
There were several smaller battles with limited reinforcements. After each battle you got some of your healt back, dependig on your medic skill.
 

Maximum997

Sergeant at Arms
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For me it made big battles feel like a real chore and they'd take forever
In BL that will not work.

Becouse in BL you spend 90% of time on running to enemy. Actual fighting in 250 v 250 battles last less then a minute. Even right now BL is more running sinulator.
 

Lord Irontoe

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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In BL that will not work.

Becouse in BL you spend 90% of time on running to enemy. Actual fighting in 200 v 200 battles last less then a minute.
Yeah, it would be much worse in BL because the bulk of your time in a big battle would be marching to the enemy, fight for a minute, then chase them across the map. Repeat 10x.