Is the dynasty mechanic wasted feature and is it also the reason fast paced combat agenda pushed by TW?

How many generation did you play in Bannerlord in your longest campaign?

  • 1

    Votes: 71 79.8%
  • 2

    Votes: 12 13.5%
  • 3

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6

    Votes: 3 3.4%

  • Total voters
    89
  • Poll closed .

Users who are viewing this thread

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
As i said, i agree with you guys about how poorly it was implemented. But even if its barebones right now it still works and has a huge modding potential.
Sure, it doesn´t make any sense to remove it. It doesn´t "hurt" the game in anyway at the moment and it has a huge potential when done right (aka mods).
 

KEYFEKEDER

Veteran
Sure, it doesn´t make any sense to remove it. It doesn´t "hurt" the game in anyway at the moment and it has a huge potential when done right (aka mods).
Exactly, if anything its one of the few cool stuff that Visionbrought us so far. Biggest problem is game gets too fast from mid to late game and there are very few open world activities to do once you go royal
 

Veith

Sergeant
M&BWB
Sure, it doesn´t make any sense to remove it. It doesn´t "hurt" the game in anyway at the moment and it has a huge potential when done right (aka mods).
I think also it is implemented momentary only as function... it functions. because i wanted to know i played with 'speed' three generations only to see if it works. But Bannerlord has in quite every aspect more rudiments than polished content.
Factly also all wanted is finally be implemented first mods will make it 'special interesting'.
 

Duh_TaleWorlds

Developer
I will not vote because it would be untruthful as I have not yet conducted a deep campaign (mostly due to the shortcomings of the mid-late game).

In my opinion, yes it is a totally wasted mechanic and certainly in 2018 I didn't see the practicality of it, which is why I posted this thread.

One might think that by speeding up the passage of time this mechanic would make sense and fit into a more "fast pace" time continuum. Unfortunately this comment by Duh already warned that such a simple change would not be easily implemented.

I assume that the new @Duh_TaleWorlds (:lol:) mantains the 2018 stance... or is an acceleration of the passage of time possible today?
With the way that time is set up in Bannerlord, there may be some avenues towards this. F.e. instead of directly speeding up time, it could be viable to cut out days in a week / weeks in a month / months in a year - meaning that many mechanics remain (at least kind of) intact but that time relevant for age would pass faster. This still comes with challenges though (be it balance of f.e. populations or maintaining several systems [assuming we wouldn't drop the current set up], performance considerations that go beyond me, etc.).
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Couldn´t you just speed up the time for childrens until they grow up to be "used"?

Sure it would not be realistic if they age like 4 years for each year passed in the world, but who really cares? Children are just "there" until they become "useful". And as far as I know they do nothing (don´t impact anything) as long as they are children or?

And please give us an option to get the desired gender as a baby, it´s annoying to save/reload all time. I know, it´s also unrealistic but who cares. Alternative make female clan members to not leave the clan if they marry.
 

KEYFEKEDER

Veteran
With the way that time is set up in Bannerlord, there may be some avenues towards this. F.e. instead of directly speeding up time, it could be viable to cut out days in a week / weeks in a month / months in a year - meaning that many mechanics remain (at least kind of) intact but that time relevant for age would pass faster. This still comes with challenges though (be it balance of f.e. populations or maintaining several systems [assuming we wouldn't drop the current set up], performance considerations that go beyond me, etc.).
Please do not make a game year shorter than it is, a year in game time is already short enough. Even some players would enjoy it, it would completely kill the immersion that barely exists in the game
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
since I imagine Calradia like this in my head
Cut out UK and half of the Arabian Peninsula and I would agree that's how I see it too
60 day could work actually for me at least
Nice.
With the way that time is set up in Bannerlord, there may be some avenues towards this. F.e. instead of directly speeding up time, it could be viable to cut out days in a week / weeks in a month / months in a year - meaning that many mechanics remain (at least kind of) intact but that time relevant for age would pass faster. This still comes with challenges though (be it balance of f.e. populations or maintaining several systems [assuming we wouldn't drop the current set up], performance considerations that go beyond me, etc.).
I like the sound of 40 or 60 days per year. Either of those would be enough to make heirs more relevant and repopulate the world quicker I reckon.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight at Arms
Implementing death in battle probability plus raising the chance of being executed by the lord who hates you will make the succession mechanics meaningful.
 

Calabanar

Sergeant at Arms
I like the sound of 40 or 60 days per year. Either of those would be enough to make heirs more relevant and repopulate the world quicker I reckon.
Plus, faster time would make the amount of battles happening all around the place much more believable.
 

Lord Grindelvald

Sergeant at Arms
WB
Cut out UK.
ARlX.gif
 
In the scope of the "normal" Bannerlord experience, even if heirs were made more viable, it's true that gameplay of more than 2 generations is pointless, because by the time you get to the 3rd generation you have conquered the map and there are no enemies left to fight.

However, IF a feature is added to the mix such as AI civil wars or foreign invasions, and then heirs are made more useful too, I could see a multi-generational/dynastic playthrough of Bannerlord being a fun experience. You conquer half of Calradia as your original character, you conquer the rest as your son, and then your grandson has the task of keeping the dynasty in control of Calradia against plotters/separatists within and barbarians without.
I completely agree. As was already mentioned, biggest problems with current dynasty system are that
  1. Years are too long, meaning it takes ages for children to grow up.
  2. Late game is not fleshed out, so there is little reason to actually go for multi-generational playthroughs.

I think the best solution for the first problem would be a gameplay setting option that allows you change the length of a year (i.e. adding pacemaker to vanilla). That way everyone could change the pacing to their liking. Ideally, this option would be accompanied by an explanation/warning on how pacing affects the in-game balance (and maybe 1 or 2 recommended settings).

A small change that would also help is lowering the age at which children turn into adults, for example to 16. In ancient Rome the age at which people became eligible for marriage was 12 for girls and 14 for boys.

Fixing the second problem is most likely a much bigger task, and it will likely take still quite some time till either TW or modders have managed to improve the late game substantially.


There are also some other changes that I personally would like to see, like improvements to the pregnancy formula, matrlinear marriages for non-clan leaders and changing how children inherit culture (please TW fix at least the current bug that children always inherit culture from mothers!! It is annoying to see Vlandian clans that consist mostly of Aserai members because of cross-culture marriages and thus get a governor culture loyalty penalty in their own Vlandian cities because a Aserai clan member is governor!)
 
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KEYFEKEDER

Veteran
A small change that would also help is lowering the age at which children turn into adults, for example to 16. In ancient Rome the age at which people became eligible for marriage was 12 for girls and 14 for boys.
Brilliant idea. That would be the solution for both satisfying the people who complain about game time and making it more immersive while retaining the realism element in the time perception of game
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
With the way that time is set up in Bannerlord, there may be some avenues towards this. F.e. instead of directly speeding up time, it could be viable to cut out days in a week / weeks in a month / months in a year - meaning that many mechanics remain (at least kind of) intact but that time relevant for age would pass faster. This still comes with challenges though (be it balance of f.e. populations or maintaining several systems [assuming we wouldn't drop the current set up], performance considerations that go beyond me, etc.).
I like the new Duh much better :iamamoron:. So as of today it is a possibility that from what I read between the lines you guys are exploring. Another thing is that it will be implemented directly by Taleworlds in Native... but well, I'm surprised to see that door a little bit open.

Given @vonbalt have tried the peacemaker mod, as for what Duh says, what information can you provide? Thanks in advance.
 

JunKeteer

Regular
Dynasty system was an interesting system for this type of game but implementation is off as it needs to include a whole list of systems (ie diplomacy/'non-battle' elements, etc...) to make it work. CK3 is a good example/reference of that in practice but that was one of their 'core' game systems, just jamming dynasty in BL won't work if all other game decisions/factors don't help amplify that feature:
  • age too slow (per poll, EA still, burn out)
  • skills have to be 'easier' to gain if you're essentially resetting it each generation (and if it is at a quicker pace).
  • children/growing up is just a time delay; they otherwise play no point in the game.
    • Maybe sending them to other towns/factions to decide their 'culture' if we're sticking with this -3 town faction penalty thing? And at war, adds another factor of hostage/prisoner situations to the calculations. Maybe a quest to rescue a lord's children, or assign troops to 'rescue' like any other quest. Or add to banditry to kidnap them (sort of like assassination/spy in a few Total War series)
    • add actual skill points with the education and not just the stat point (ie potentially could come with ~75 skill points once they are 'playable'). Can even tie it to clan tier/prosperity or another influence/money sink so the more you have/spend, potential for higher skills right out the gate; or even add a random 'genius' %chance for some diversity to the NPCs/lords 'uniqueness'.
    • give them random relationship gains/losses with other children/npcs/factions so it gives a sense of RP to influence how you may want to play the next generation. Ie. marry a 'childhood' friend, 'elope/faction abandon' options, war/rivalry/feud options with another, etc...
  • add potential for clan tier to degrade (sort of like influence) so there's more ebb and flow with each turn of generation to add another element of 'resistance' to owning all of Calradia so it's a generation WIP (which can easily be done in one generation). As of now, it's just a permanent gain equivalent to 'renown' in Warband and it only serves to give you one more companion (which most probably pick culture specific re that town loyalty negative) and workshop count. Wouldn't clan tier make more sense tied to how many castles/towns you could/can own vs how many workshops you can buy?
I think most can agree that the early and early-mid stages of the game are the most fun as you're a nobody/poor; but that it easily catapults to a grind after the first town, and kingship is practically by default yours and you can't really lose it from any other reason.
 

High Solar

Regular
I downloaded a mod that gives the option to increase time going forward at a really fast pace. In situations where you wait in a town and a castle, it really makes the game faster.
 

TengriBless

Banned
Dynasty system was an interesting system for this type of game but implementation is off as it needs to include a whole list of systems (ie diplomacy/'non-battle' elements, etc...) to make it work. CK3 is a good example/reference of that in practice but that was one of their 'core' game systems, just jamming dynasty in BL won't work if all other game decisions/factors don't help amplify that feature:
  • age too slow (per poll, EA still, burn out)
  • skills have to be 'easier' to gain if you're essentially resetting it each generation (and if it is at a quicker pace).
  • children/growing up is just a time delay; they otherwise play no point in the game.
    • Maybe sending them to other towns/factions to decide their 'culture' if we're sticking with this -3 town faction penalty thing? And at war, adds another factor of hostage/prisoner situations to the calculations. Maybe a quest to rescue a lord's children, or assign troops to 'rescue' like any other quest. Or add to banditry to kidnap them (sort of like assassination/spy in a few Total War series)
    • add actual skill points with the education and not just the stat point (ie potentially could come with ~75 skill points once they are 'playable'). Can even tie it to clan tier/prosperity or another influence/money sink so the more you have/spend, potential for higher skills right out the gate; or even add a random 'genius' %chance for some diversity to the NPCs/lords 'uniqueness'.
    • give them random relationship gains/losses with other children/npcs/factions so it gives a sense of RP to influence how you may want to play the next generation. Ie. marry a 'childhood' friend, 'elope/faction abandon' options, war/rivalry/feud options with another, etc...
  • add potential for clan tier to degrade (sort of like influence) so there's more ebb and flow with each turn of generation to add another element of 'resistance' to owning all of Calradia so it's a generation WIP (which can easily be done in one generation). As of now, it's just a permanent gain equivalent to 'renown' in Warband and it only serves to give you one more companion (which most probably pick culture specific re that town loyalty negative) and workshop count. Wouldn't clan tier make more sense tied to how many castles/towns you could/can own vs how many workshops you can buy?
I think most can agree that the early and early-mid stages of the game are the most fun as you're a nobody/poor; but that it easily catapults to a grind after the first town, and kingship is practically by default yours and you can't really lose it from any other reason.
Nice mod suggestions

But more to the point, quickening the pace of the game is nibbling around the edges of a feature which could with the appropriate supporting features become the enjoyable and immersive core feature it was always supposed to be.
 

High Solar

Regular
Nice mod suggestions

But more to the point, quickening the pace of the game is nibbling around the edges of a feature which could with the appropriate supporting features become the enjoyable and immersive core feature it was always supposed to be.
Agreed. On that note I think it is easy to impement events like in CK, that will have impact on the whole game.
 

dannazgu

Sergeant at Arms
Implementing death in battle probability plus raising the chance of being executed by the lord who hates you will make the succession mechanics meaningful.
@Duh_TaleWorlds how about we implement this, of course with option to people turn off? Instead cutting things? A lot players enjoy the system and i believe that customize the game on few features wouldn't hurt, some people like others don't.. no one has to agree with everything , right? :xf-wink:

One reason i like games with dynasties is to see how the game changes around with dynasties, new people, etc, the surprise your heir can be better or worse, etc. I love the feature, and it's one the reason I decide keep going with M&B is the uniquess the game has to offer. So, the solution is get better system, and make optimized.
 
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Helerek

Recruit
Sadly most of the features in native Bannerlord feel wasted, because of not being fully developed or balanced. Dynasty mechanic could be improved in many ways, mainly by cuting the time it takes for children to mature (age of 12, which is reasonable since nobles die around age of 58+ which was normal for medieval times). Also speed up a little time and change inheritance of skills/perks to children. There's a lot of room for improvements, so it doesn't feel like a waste to die for main character and play as his children. One way would be to give us control over our family. This would mean we fully control their parties or characters in combat. We could lead our army as our main and play a fighter/warrior/archer as our child. This would open up so many possibilites for the game. Even controlling a separate party just to skill up our family members in a way we want (and in a way we can;t with companions).
 
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