Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?

[ancalimon]

Ancalimon, that "spoiler" mini essay reads like a middle school child wrote it.  Not only is the prose obviously biased and pathetic, but the historical information it provides is horribly inaccurate.  For example "The Church, like a winepress, came crushing down on society, and no one dared resist it. Everyone kept silent."  Anyone who knows anything about Medieval European history would know that is completely wrong.  Why don't you read about the Holy Roman Emperors and count how many of them came into conflict with the Pope....I would almost say at least half.

Isn't the author the same idiot who claims that Romans didn't have and know how to use iron? That would explain a lot.

high ranking officials did have iron weapons. It's just that iron was uncommon for a long time and only "the barbarians" had the knowledge. Just like "concrete" whose secret formula was lost to Romans for a very long time. Apparently only the Etruscans and Trojans had that knowledge and it was lost after their demise. The migrating Turks brought those knowledge back.

 

[blood of the North]

Ancalimon, that "spoiler" mini essay reads like a middle school child wrote it.  Not only is the prose obviously biased and pathetic, but the historical information it provides is horribly inaccurate.  For example "The Church, like a winepress, came crushing down on society, and no one dared resist it. Everyone kept silent."  Anyone who knows anything about Medieval European history would know that is completely wrong.  Why don't you read about the Holy Roman Emperors and count how many of them came into conflict with the Pope....I would almost say at least half.

Isn't the author the same idiot who claims that Romans didn't have and know how to use iron? That would explain a lot.

high ranking officials did have iron weapons. It's just that iron was uncommon for a long time and only "the barbarians" had the knowledge. Just like "concrete" whose secret formula was lost to Romans for a very long time. Apparently only the Etruscans and Trojans had that knowledge and it was lost after their demise. The migrating Turks brought those knowledge back.

So when did iron enter mainstream Roman society?

 

[Rath0s]

So what did romans do?

Did they plant iron seeds in Italy?

 

[Merlkir]

Ancalimon, that "spoiler" mini essay reads like a middle school child wrote it.  Not only is the prose obviously biased and pathetic, but the historical information it provides is horribly inaccurate.  For example "The Church, like a winepress, came crushing down on society, and no one dared resist it. Everyone kept silent."  Anyone who knows anything about Medieval European history would know that is completely wrong.  Why don't you read about the Holy Roman Emperors and count how many of them came into conflict with the Pope....I would almost say at least half.

Isn't the author the same idiot who claims that Romans didn't have and know how to use iron? That would explain a lot.

high ranking officials did have iron weapons. It's just that iron was uncommon for a long time and only "the barbarians" had the knowledge. Just like "concrete" whose secret formula was lost to Romans for a very long time. Apparently only the Etruscans and Trojans had that knowledge and it was lost after their demise. The migrating Turks brought those knowledge back.

both archaeology and historical records are in direct contradiction with these claims. Just because your idiot says so, it doesn't make it true. And you won't make it true by repeating this nonsense over and over.

 

[!!noice!!]

I'd like to know where do these Turkic words come from. The "Swedish" as well, because I can't find your counterparts, really. Some Swedish speaker, please clear this up.

Your humble neighbourhood bulbous root to the rescue!

Except for "ätt", that you've already halfway cleared up; It is slightly related to "ancestors", but it's meaning is better translated to "lineage". It is, however, derived from Germanic/really Old Norse words for "property" and "belonging", i.e. what family you belonged to. Has absolutely nothing to do with fathers or anything like that, though.

Spoiler

• Böri (kurt) – varg : wolf

Varg mean wolf (compare wargs/worgs), yes, but I have no idea what relation he sees between it and the Turkish word. There's no resemblance between them whatsoever.

• Bağır (göğüs) – Bog :  chest, inner part of human, heart

Bog is used for the frontal underside of animals, and for the underparts of ships. It is not used for humans, nor does it's meaning translate very well to "chest" (or, looking up the two Turkish words, "bussum" or "breast", which is what they seem to mean). In fact, it's original meaning was most likely "shoulder/s".

• Göm – Göm : bury

The usage of "göm" in Swedish is "gömma" in imperative form. And it does not mean "bury", it means "hide". While you can hide something by burying it, it has no other relation. It is derived from Germanic words for "take care of" or "keep".

• Siper – Spär : bulwark, aegis, shield

Oh god no. "Spärr" means "hinder" or "something blocking your way". The Swedish word for "shield" is "sköld". "Spärr/a" can not be used as a word meaning "protect [whatever]".

• Hal – Hälsa  :  health, condition

"Hälsa" means "health", but only "condition" in the sense of "the condition of one's health". The connection to "health" should also be obvious, as it's they both have the same Germanic root.

• Hâkan – Håkan :  common Turkish and Swedish given name.

While true, they do not mean the same thing.

• Kağan – Konung (kung) : king

"Konung", means king, yes, and it's directly related to German "könig", or, well, the English "king". "Kung" is derived from "Konung"

• Hej – Hej : hi

Heh, yeah, compare English "hey", sounding exactly the same.

• Hayda – Hejdå : the word told to animals to make them go

Not at all. It's "hej då", meaning "good bye", or more literally; "Hi/hey, then". While you can say it to animals when you leave them, you do not say it to "make them go".

• Kap – Kop : cup

It's "kopp", and just like "cup", it's believed to be derived from Latin. Or, compare German "kopf".

• Kiler – Källare : cellar

The relation to "cellar" is obvious, just replace the c with this kind of sound, add an e to the end and that's it. Compare German "keller" and Latin "cellare".

• Köy – Koja : village

Heh, no, not even close. "Koja" is a word for a small house/shack/hut. Not even close to any of the words for "village".

• Mana – Mena : meaning

Mena = Mean, Meaning = Mening.

• Şen – Shön : happy

As "shön" does not exist, I assume you mean "skön", which does not mean "happy" either way. It means "beatiful"/"fair", "comfortable", or in slang is roughly an equivalent of "cool" or "sweet".

• Su – Sjö : water

"Sjö" is the Swedish equivalent of "sea", also used as "lake".

• Tepe – Top : hill

Once again, not at all. "Top" means, surprisingly, "top". It's use a poor alternative to hill or mountains is derived from the fact that those two things have (high) tops.

• Peder – Fader : father

I believe Cèsar already explain this relationship.

• Kaz – Gås : Goose (also bird in general in Turkish)

Yes, "gås" means goose, but I can't see how any of them resemble "kaz". The only thing the English and Swedish words have in common with the Turkish is an "s" sound at the end.

• Kule – Külle : tower

First of all, "ü" does not exist in Swedish. Secondly, "kulle" means "hill", not "tower".

• Gülle – Kula : dumb-bell

"Kula" means "ball" (Canon ball = Kanon-kula). The only connection I can think of between "dumb-bell" and "kula" is that in older days, weight lifting equipment used to have balls on them instead of disks. Otherwise, there's nothing.

• Erlik – Ärlig : honesty, masculinity, God of Underword

"Ärlig" means "honest" (ärlighet = honesty), but it has no relation what so ever to masculinity. And, as most people probably now, the only Swedish deity of an "Underworld" is the goddess Hel, ruler of the realm Hel, were all people who did not die in battle supposedly went.

• Öküz – Oxe  : ox

Obviously the same word as "ox", with the same root.
[/list]

In conclusion, the only word on that list I can not explain is "Göl", which while it does not exactly mean "lake", it does mean "(large) pool". Even if we pretend that there can be no other explanation for it than it being Turkish, one out thousands are not really something to brag about. So yeah, ancalimon, not a whole lot of "Turkish" words in my language.

As for you others, who are those I in fact wrote this to (as ancalimon is too delusional to react with anything other than "lol germanic is turkish can't you see the turth lol"), I hope this at least will make it certain to you that there is no way what he calls "Turkish" words are actually from that origin. Well, I guess we only need experience to realise that, but now you have evidence as well.
Lastly, I am also sorry for the post being such a mess. Someone schooled in layout really should be able to do better, but I guess that's what skill rust does to you.

 

[ancalimon]

• I'd like to know where do these Turkic words come from. The "Swedish" as well, because I can't find your counterparts, really. Some Swedish speaker, please clear this up.

  Your humble neighbourhood bulbous root to the rescue!
  
  Except for "ätt", that you've already halfway cleared up; It is slightly related to "ancestors", but it's meaning is better translated to "lineage". It is, however, derived from Germanic/really Old Norse words for "property" and "belonging", i.e. what family you belonged to. Has absolutely nothing to do with fathers or anything like that, though.
  
  

  Spoiler

  • Böri (kurt) – varg : wolf

  Varg mean wolf (compare wargs/worgs), yes, but I have no idea what relation he sees between it and the Turkish word. There's no resemblance between them whatsoever.
  
  

  • Bağır (göğüs) – Bog :  chest, inner part of human, heart

  Bog is used for the frontal underside of animals, and for the underparts of ships. It is not used for humans, nor does it's meaning translate very well to "chest" (or, looking up the two Turkish words, "bussum" or "breast", which is what they seem to mean). In fact, it's original meaning was most likely "shoulder/s".
  
  

  • Göm – Göm : bury

  The usage of "göm" in Swedish is "gömma" in imperative form. And it does not mean "bury", it means "hide". While you can hide something by burying it, it has no other relation. It is derived from Germanic words for "take care of" or "keep".
  
  

  • Siper – Spär : bulwark, aegis, shield

  Oh god no. "Spärr" means "hinder" or "something blocking your way". The Swedish word for "shield" is "sköld". "Spärr/a" can not be used as a word meaning "protect [whatever]".
  
  

  • Hal – Hälsa  :  health, condition

  "Hälsa" means "health", but only "condition" in the sense of "the condition of one's health". The connection to "health" should also be obvious, as it's they both have the same Germanic root.
  
  

  • Hâkan – Håkan :  common Turkish and Swedish given name.

  While true, they do not mean the same thing.
  
  

  • Kağan – Konung (kung) : king

  "Konung", means king, yes, and it's directly related to German "könig", or, well, the English "king". "Kung" is derived from "Konung"
  
  

  • Hej – Hej : hi

  Heh, yeah, compare English "hey", sounding exactly the same.
  
  

  • Hayda – Hejdå : the word told to animals to make them go

  Not at all. It's "hej då", meaning "good bye", or more literally; "Hi/hey, then". While you can say it to animals when you leave them, you do not say it to "make them go".
  
  

  • Kap – Kop : cup

  It's "kopp", and just like "cup", it's believed to be derived from Latin. Or, compare German "kopf".
  
  

  • Kiler – Källare : cellar

  The relation to "cellar" is obvious, just replace the c with this kind of sound, add an e to the end and that's it. Compare German "keller" and Latin "cellare".
  
  

  • Köy – Koja : village

  Heh, no, not even close. "Koja" is a word for a small house/shack/hut. Not even close to any of the words for "village".
  
  

  • Mana – Mena : meaning

  Mena = Mean, Meaning = Mening.
  
  

  • Şen – Shön : happy

  As "shön" does not exist, I assume you mean "skön", which does not mean "happy" either way. It means "beatiful"/"fair", "comfortable", or in slang is roughly an equivalent of "cool" or "sweet".
  
  

  • Su – Sjö : water

  "Sjö" is the Swedish equivalent of "sea", also used as "lake".
  
  

  • Tepe – Top : hill

  Once again, not at all. "Top" means, surprisingly, "top". It's use a poor alternative to hill or mountains is derived from the fact that those two things have (high) tops.
  
  

  • Peder – Fader : father

  I believe Cèsar already explain this relationship.
  
  

  • Kaz – Gås : Goose (also bird in general in Turkish)

  Yes, "gås" means goose, but I can't see how any of them resemble "kaz". The only thing the English and Swedish words have in common with the Turkish is an "s" sound at the end.
  
  

  • Kule – Külle : tower

  First of all, "ü" does not exist in Swedish. Secondly, "kulle" means "hill", not "tower".
  
  

  • Gülle – Kula : dumb-bell

  "Kula" means "ball" (Canon ball = Kanon-kula). The only connection I can think of between "dumb-bell" and "kula" is that in older days, weight lifting equipment used to have balls on them instead of disks. Otherwise, there's nothing.
  
  

  • Erlik – Ärlig : honesty, masculinity, God of Underword

  "Ärlig" means "honest" (ärlighet = honesty), but it has no relation what so ever to masculinity. And, as most people probably now, the only Swedish deity of an "Underworld" is the goddess Hel, ruler of the realm Hel, were all people who did not die in battle supposedly went.
  
  

  • Öküz – Oxe  : ox

  Obviously the same word as "ox", with the same root.

In conclusion, the only word on that list I can not explain is "Göl", which while it does not exactly mean "lake", it does mean "(large) pool". Even if we pretend that there can be no other explanation for it than it being Turkish, one out thousands are not really something to brag about. So yeah, ancalimon, not a whole lot of "Turkish" words in my language.

As for you others, who are those I in fact wrote this to (as ancalimon is too delusional to react with anything other than "lol germanic is turkish can't you see the turth lol"), I hope this at least will make it certain to you that there is no way what he calls "Turkish" words are actually from that origin. Well, I guess we only need experience to realise that, but now you have evidence as well.
Lastly, I am also sorry for the post being such a mess. Someone schooled in layout really should be able to do better, but I guess that's what skill rust does to you.

1: Ata does not only mean father but also "ancestor" and "lineage" in Turkish meaning my great grandmother is my ATA as well. Also it reentered Turkish true middle Arabic in the form of "AİT" which means "belonging to". So Swedish "ätt" is either from Turkic or Middle Arabic (which is what the Arabs made of Turkic)
http://translate.google.com/#tr|en|ata

Or do you call your children your "ätt" as well?

2: Göl also means a pool of water. (not necessarily large) in Turkic. The pools that are created by rain is an example to this.

3: Böri and Varg are the same words.  B and V sounds are phonetic substitutes.  Pronunciation of both words are very similar to "bury"

4: HAL >  Do you also use this word in this context?: without Halse (not having halse) : tired or sick. (in Turkish  halsiz: tired, bad condition)

5: Tepe  also means "top" in Turkic. It entered to all of the languages that have it from Turkic. Even Mayan.

6: ŞEN also means fair in Turkic (but in a more festival like fair)

 

[LordOfShadows]

You do realize that swedish is germanic, and arabic is semitic?

Good god, I was away for a while, I come back and see a bunch of your drivel everywhere.

The turkic tribes first started moving into the iranian areas between the 6th to 8th centuries, a simple google search will give you articles with enough references to demolish all the crap your spouting.

The Mayans? How in the hell would the turks interact with the mayans.

You're delusional. You need to be put away in a "I love me" jacket for your own good.

Edit to add: I may spout bull**** for the hell of it every once in a while, or not know enough about something and make an ass of myself, but you got problems if you seriously believe the the guano you spew.

 

[Rath0s]

Ancalimon, dont you think it might just be a coincidence?

Have you ever thought of it the other way around?

 

[ancalimon]

Ancalimon, dont you think it might just be a coincidence?

Have you ever thought of it the other way around?

You mean the Vikings could be the source of everything?  Might be possible if you could find enough evidence.

You do realize that swedish is germanic, and arabic is semitic?

Good god, I was away for a while, I come back and see a bunch of your drivel everywhere.

The turkic tribes first started moving into the iranian areas between the 6th to 8th centuries, a simple google search will give you articles with enough references to demolish all the crap your spouting.

The Mayans? How in the hell would the turks interact with the mayans.

You're delusional. You need to be put away in a "I love me" jacket for your own good.

Edit to add: I may spout bull**** for the hell of it every once in a while, or not know enough about something and make an ass of myself, but you got problems if you seriously believe the the guano you spew.

Give me a better explanation to how Arabic and Swedish have a common word. (out of many which I didn't write)

and No. Persians were living with Turks before Herodotus wrote his book. Actually Önre Binbaşı wrote all about it all about Darius and his war.. Those areas were not Iranian and were never Iranian. Persians are a minority even in Iran. They never had any impact in worlds history.

 

[!!noice!!]

1: Ata does not only mean father but also "ancestor" and "lineage" in Turkish meaning my great grandmother is my ATA as well. Also it reentered Turkish true middle Arabic in the form of "AİT" which means "belonging to". So Swedish "ätt" is either from Turkic or Middle Arabic (which is what the Arabs made of Turkic)
http://translate.google.com/#tr|en|ata

Or do you call your children your "ätt" as well?

Yes, my children would belong to my "ätt". And as I said, it's derived from the Germanic/proto-Norse words for "property".
And "re-entered" my ass. This just means it comes from Arabic, and you believe it "re-entered" because "All languages ARE TURKISH!!!" in your mind.

2: Göl also means a pool of water. (not necessarily large) in Turkic. The pools that are created by rain is an example to this.

No, not that kind of pools - swimming pools, size wise.

3: Böri and Varg are the same words.  B and V sounds are phonetic substitutes.  Pronunciation of both words are very similar to "bury"

Neup, "varg" sounds nothing like "bury". In fact, the only similar sound is the R.
And B and V are not interchangeable in Swedish.

4: HAL >  Do you also use this word in this context?: without Halse (not having halse) : tired or sick. (in Turkish  halsiz: tired, bad condition)

Not exactly, we use it in the same way as the English "health". Because they're derived from the same word. Which is Germanic, and Indo-European, not Turkish.

5: Tepe  also means "top" in Turkic. It entered to all of the languages that have it from Turkic. Even Mayan.

Of course it did.
Still doesn't mean "hill".

6: ŞEN also means fair in Turkic (but in a more festival like fair)

"Fair" as in festival/market has got nothing to do with "fair" as in beautiful. Just like "skön" has got nothing to do with neither happiness, fun, or festivals.

 

[ancalimon]

3: Böri and Varg are the same words.  B and V sounds are phonetic substitutes.  Pronunciation of both words are very similar to "bury"

Neup, "varg" sounds nothing like "bury". In fact, the only similar sound is the R.
And B and V are not interchangeable in Swedish.

http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|varg

Isn't this how it's pronounced in Swedish?

http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|bori

this is how it sounds in Turkish.

or enter http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html  choose Ipek Turkish voice and type böri although it seem to swallow the syllables


Also these sounds are interchangeable (meaning they can even change inside the same languages dialects)

V - B - P - F - M

You can make all these sounds without moving your tongue and with minimal lip movement.

very , merry, ferry, parry, berry

 

[Merlkir]

You can make all these sounds without moving your tongue and with minimal lip movement.

yeah, we know. That doesn't make them the same, or interchangeable.

very , merry, ferry, parry, berry

you gave yourself an example of words that should be the same by your definition. But obviously aren't.

 

[ancalimon]

You can make all these sounds without moving your tongue and with minimal lip movement.

yeah, we know. That doesn't make them the same, or interchangeable.

very , merry, ferry, parry, berry

you gave yourself an example of words that should be the same by your definition. But obviously aren't.

varg and böri are same by definition. Simply wolf in all Turkic speaking world of 600 million people and Swedish. It's easier to assume the Swedish borrowed this word from the 600 million people who use the same word.

 

[Troll]

Ancalimon, dont you think it might just be a coincidence?

Have you ever thought of it the other way around?

You mean the Vikings could be the source of everything?  Might be possible if you could find enough evidence.

Just like it might be possible that Turks actually existed around the time you mostly speak of, if you could find enough evidence.

 

[ancalimon]

Ancalimon, dont you think it might just be a coincidence?

Have you ever thought of it the other way around?

You mean the Vikings could be the source of everything?  Might be possible if you could find enough evidence.

Just like it might be possible that Turks actually existed around the time you mostly speak of, if you could find enough evidence.

riight... The Turks popped out of no where. Siberia was so full of nourishment and supported many people and a time came and it couldn't sustain the over reproduced Turks so much and suddenly they filled Asia.

And there came a time some of these people decided to create a new language which we call Turkic and they called themselves Turks.  600 million people.

and you are talking about Germanic people who lived with those imaginary Turks.

and these 600 million people popped out of nowhere. They are actually guests in the lands they live and they have no history. 

I'm not the one who needs to find a link to Indians (through a company) to find a source for my language. I own a thousand years old Turkic "dictionary" which was written "to make Arabs understand Turkish easier". The Turks didn't even force Arabs to use their alphabet. They learned and started using theirs to teach them.

The Mayans? How in the hell would the turks interact with the mayans.

You tell me! when I talk about it people call me delusional.

http://viewzone2.com/ancientturksx.html
http://www.maya12-21-2012.com/2012sumerian.html
http://onturk.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/ayni-tengrinin-cocuklari/

LEFT: MAYANS          RIGHT: TURKS

 

[Merlkir]

varg and böri are same by definition.

No, they really are not.

In Old Norse, vargr is a term for "wolf" (ulfr).[1] The Proto-Germanic *wargaz meant "strangler" (see modern German würgen), and hence "evildoer, criminal, outcast."[1] Varg is still the modern Swedish word for "wolf." Also cognate is Old English warg "large bear". In Dutch wolverines are sometimes called Warg, although the name Veelvraat is more commonly used.

Even if their pronunciation is vaguely similar, it doesn't mean it is a Swedish loan from Turkic, since you're comparing two modern languages and since we have pretty solid etymology for the word.

"V" may be interchangeable with "B" in your mind, you've already tried it with "B" and "G" before, but you simply use this only if it fits into your ridiculous scheme.
There's no point in arguing with you, as you continue to completely ignore linguistics as a whole.

Why the **** do we bother?

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

We really shouldn't bother.

Also, b is definitely not like v when in the Germanic languages (except English) v makes an f sound.

As for the Turks springing up out of nowhere, there is a difference between existing as a recognizable tribe and people, and having the genetic makeup of an ancestor.

The Turks in Anatolia are predominantly of indigenous genetics with some Asiatic (probably Turkic) blood imposed in smaller percentage.  Presumably this is of the ruling class that actually migrated out of the Asian Steppe.  These migrants, the actual Turks, originate from a small group of tribes that only came together as a culture not long before the time of Christ.  However, the first attested existence of them is even later.  Either way, this is much later than 12000 B.C. and the Turks themselves arrived on the world stage only in time to affect Medieval and later time periods.  Fact.

 

[Rath0s]

Why the **** do we bother?

Because its fun to see how stupid a human can get.

 

[ancalimon]

Why the **** do we bother?

Because its fun to see how stupid a human can get.

 

[Gr0vZ]

Do you guys think that his actual problem concerns the fact that he wants to get laid with a x girl (where x some European ethnicity e.g. swedish, polish etc) and he can't really do it? Because... I don't know, I just can't find a reason in all of his zealotry. And there is a saying among the people I live that "if you don't know why's someone delusional, that's because he probably can't get some".
Too bad, mate. But I guess it's a reason enough to have get all butthurt to such apocalyptic dimensions. For someone like you.
Cheers. Keep doing what you're doing because I feel lucky. About 500 years ago, you would be burned, after being flayed alive infront of a public I might not be among to enjoy the show. But hey! Nowadays, we get the Internets where we can all observe phenomena like dear ancalimon!