Is it just me or......

[Reavera]

..... are the swadians expert marksmen. It seems like I can send 20 men versus their 20 and before my men get to them I have 5 left from excessive accuracy. I have literealy given up playing because of this unbalance. Is there somthing I have missed?

Thanks,
Reavera

 

[DaLagga]

I've noticed this as well, but not so much when it comes to just swadians vs vaegir. What i've noticed, is that AI archers are always better than mine, no matter what. Most of the time, mine sit there wondering what they do, and by the time they decide to fire, half of them are dead. And then if they do actually fire like they're supposed to, its with about 1/4 the accuracy of computer lead archers. It's almost as though there is a script that basically makes your archers much less effective. And i've played enough games to know this is not just bad luck. Actually, its luck on my part when my archers actually do well, which is only about 1 out of every 5 battles...on a good day

 

[sapi]

Interesting...my archers do fine....and enemy archers provide a challenge

 

[Archonsod]

Accuracy appears to depend on distance and approach.

Favourite trick at the moment : ride around between them like a maniac and watch the "Swadian marksman was killed by Swadian Marksman" messages scroll by.

 

[Roach]

I usually stick with horsemen, but I recently rescued 5 Swadian crossbowmen, thought I'd give them a try.

In each of the next three battles they managed to kill one of their own, execute Borcha gangsta style in the back of the head (three times. In a row.) and stick the odd bolt in my back for the hell of it. I threw the last two out with the dishwater.

 

[Archonsod]

I usually stick with horsemen, but I recently rescued 5 Swadian crossbowmen, thought I'd give them a try.

In each of the next three battles they managed to kill one of their own, execute Borcha gangsta style in the back of the head (three times. In a row.) and stick the odd bolt in my back for the hell of it. I threw the last two out with the dishwater.

After killing Borcha? I'd have kept them around just to see how he likes it!

 

[Lugh]

Well, after having had my 20-Knight army massacred by a bunch of xbows on a hill, I'm wary of going into battle against the deserter armies.
I used to make enemy cavalry a priority but now I'll usually let my main force deal with that and swing around the flanks to take out the archers first and meet my men in the middle to mop up the infantry.

 

[Roach]

LOL I usually eat Vaegir Deserters for breakfast since they're nearly all melee troops and my sword of war is quicker than their spears.

However one time I wasn't really paying attention and attacked the army '..deserters'. I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on when the knight next to me fell back off his horse with three quarrels in his chest. Those bastards are like machines, clouds of bolts landing around you every 4 seconds.. I wouldn't mind so much but they're half decent in melee as well, there's just no killing em.

 

[Brew]

The swabian crossbowmen are good but I think every third one only has a knife as melee weapon. last time I fought them I went through 2 steel shields & a heavy charger, I had to tell my guys to dismount & robbed the best horse. I think we should be thankful that its not sharpshooters as those guys shoot fast & are all well equipped for melee.

 

[Reavera]

Currenty, it is my oppinion that the accuracy of the enemy crossbowmen is rediculous. If my troops are going to be obliterated before they even reach the enemy by crossbow fire I dont see the point in playing. I do not beleive in
making up for this accessive inbalance by finding workarounds. If you have to find ways to over come an imbalance there is still something seriously wrong. This is a total gameplay spoiler for me.

Thanks,
Reavera

 

[Archonsod]

In all honesty they aren't that great.

If your moving they seem to have great difficulty hitting you. Usually its just bad luck if you do get hit.
Even standing still the majority of their shots seem to miss.

 

[jrawlings]

Also, don't do a frontal assault on thier group...that is suicide. Move laterally to them, they don't have nearly the accuracy then as well.

 

[maw]

or.... you could use the usual dips in terrain, call your units to that place and tell them to "hold", scout out what kind of force your up against and where they are coming from. let them get close before charging over the hill, keeping them out of ranged weapon line of site.

i try to leap frog from low point to low point (if there are any, and usually there are) to get close to ranged weapons. they don't fire if they don't have line of site.

i've also successfully hid behind trees... seems to screw up ranged weapons users. unfortunately, our troop ai is even dumber than me, soooo.... thats my comment on it.... not that its worth anything. maw

 

[jrawlings]

I also do solo recon. I ride a fast horse (heavy hunter or coarser) and again, I don't bee-line to the enemy, instead I go up the side of the map, see where they are, take a good look at the terrain between my troops and them, and then move my men accordingly using maw's advice.

Generally, though, I tend to avoid engaging archer-heavy troops.


One other tactic you can use... a bit dangerous, but it is effective if it works. Tell your troops to hold where you spawn. You ride out to the enemy, when you get there, just ride in circles around them, herd them in so to speak. If you are close enough, they will pull out melee and put away bows. If they do shoot at you, you are riding at full speed and riding laterally to them... they have the lowest probability of hitting you in this situation. Also, keep your shield up. Once you've done this, continue to ride in circles and call your troops in. When your troops get in range, give a charge command and you should get melee vs. melee. I usually hang back and pick off any enemy that is foolish to pull out a bow.

 

[Reavera]

Again, I am not for findine workarounds, I would simply like it fixed. As for their accuracy, if I can send 20 vs 20 ( not exact of course ) and end up with 4 - 5 men left standing.... before my men enter melee range....I am sorry my friend, but thats a problem.

Thanks,
Reavera

P.S. Just for refreshers, this was vagures(me) vs suadian(them)

 

[Vachir]

I've never been able to get archers to work right, they end up killing each other and hardly any of them even line up to shoot. As mentioned earlier in the thread, enemy deserter forces of crossbowmen etc. don't seem to have this problem.

 

[Roach]

Tisn't really a workaround, it's called tactics.

You lead a frontal assault on any troops armed with missile weapons (except Imperial stormtroopers) and you're going to pay in blood.

I'd wasn't complaining about them being unbalanced or anything, actually I think the (enemy) missile troops AI is quite good. They'll get up to a high point and gun you down mercilessly as you cross the battlefield. If you move out of line of sight they'll look for another vantage point. (It's hardcore when they spawn high up one of those unclimable walls at the edge of the battlefield and stay there sniping you.. damnit, it's not fair they can use the same tactic I do )

I'm working on a flanking tactic: have your troops hold position across from the enemy, engaging in a long-range missile duel. While they're occupied sneak around to the side and try and snipe a few without exposing yourself. When they turn to hunt you out you can get your men to charge, they're only facing half the weight of fire and most will get there. If they turn back to fire on your men, that's when you come down on them like a god of war. Keep them switching targets, keep making them have to move to get line of sight. This is one of the reasons the game is so awesome, you can just imagine the Black Prince employing similar tactics against Genoese crossbow mercenaries..

 

[Reavera]

If you could decimate 3/4 of your enemy with ranged fire before they closed within melee range then no tactition in their right mind would use anything but missle troops.

And you still beleive thats not an issue?

 

[Roach]

If you could decimate 3/4 of your enemy with ranged fire before they closed within melee range then no tactition in their right mind would use anything but missle troops.

And you still beleive thats not an issue?

Aye, but if that remaining 1/4 is specialised melee infantry they'll probably still butcher the lightly armed archers and win the day. That's why you need your own infantry, to screen your archers. Archers need to train for a lifetime (specially longbowmen) and numbers were always restricted. Plus they're **** in rain, fog and if the enemy's advancing through cover.

As for 'no tacticion in their right mind would use anything but missile troops.', when was the last time you saw a soldier wielding a sword or mace on Sky News? Missile troops all the way for the last hundred years man, since projectile weapons became so effective.

 

[Reavera]

last time I checked, the game isn't based on the last 100 years...baby. And second if you will go back and play some more m&b you will see that archers can be as heavily armed as any melee unit... any unit.

thanks,
Reavera