is it just me or Rhodoks is annoyingly overpowered?

[killer-blead]

I don't even understand why you have Faction: Rhodok in your profile.. Every where I go I see you talking down on them. Why not chose Sarranid, Veagir or Swadian huh? You seem to like cav so much.

Because I am not like you. Because I am not a soccer fan, or a cheerleader. Because I can pick a side or have something without deluding myself that it's the best thing in the entire world.

Get it now?

Actually I just made that statement because it seemed you didn't liked the Rhodoks at all. I'm not a Nords fanboy so get that idea out of your head. I like the swadians just as much as I like Nords yet I prefer footcombat and it's better to have a Huscarl at your side then a knight when fighting on foot. Besides that I'm also in a Nords clan.

So, And correct me if I am wrong (Which you probably will anyway) You only like the way the Rhodoks are dressed for roleplay yet you despise them for being so "weak"?

 

[CriticallyAshamed]

why u guiz so mad lol?

Seriously, calm down. Every single faction in singleplayer is overpowered. I've killed 1200 Mountain Bandits with 100 Vaegir Marksmen, we took one loss. That's with normal difficulty. Admittedly that's not the same as 50 sharpshooters against 10 Mamlukes, but you're clearly not talking normal situations either. Previously, you stated that you added in Rhodock hammermen, and thus tweaked Rhodocks, so I don't think you're in a position to rant about their strengths in vanilla.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

So, And correct me if I am wrong (Which you probably will anyway) You only like the way the Rhodoks are dressed for roleplay yet you despise them for being so "weak"?

Well, it's like this.

I don't despise them for being weak, I just play with them for challenge and fun. What I don't like are fantasies, such as when someone tries to tell me that all-Rhodok army is better or at least equal to all-Sarranid *player-controlled* army.

Rhodoks have the best king.

I dislike Ragged Outfit to the point where I don't even buy it in multiplayer. Their other armor looks good and pleasant to the eye.

They have the best weaponry which is suited to counter-warfare. That's what I like the most. Not who brings the biggest club. I prefer crossbow over bow in the game, great hammer is... amazing (loved it in multiplayer, but now I use it in singleplayer too and it totally rules, AI on good blocks a lot but not anymore hehe and shields don't matter). Pike is great. Glaive is a variation of Guan Dao and Naginata (although I don't like the weapon itself in the game right now).

They were not overplayed in original MnB which put me away from playing as Swadia (and Swadia being one-dimensional in weaponry).

Playing as Rhodoks gives me best foot combat experience, because I have proper support from behind, but my troops don't block my way (as when playing with Nords). Or, when playing with cavalry as cavalry, I have to 'dig' through my own lines because Mamlukes just overrun everything and I barely have any kills

Their reliance on crossbow reminds me of chinese, whom I like.

I like their architecture. Almerra castle is the closest to Japanese style of castle combat as you can get in this game.

 

[Dark Elf]

why u guiz so mad lol?

Seriously, calm down. Every single faction in singleplayer is overpowered. I've killed 1200 Mountain Bandits with 100 Vaegir Marksmen, we took one loss. That's with normal difficulty. Admittedly that's not the same as 50 sharpshooters against 10 Mamlukes, but you're clearly not talking normal situations either. Previously, you stated that you added in Rhodock hammermen, and thus tweaked Rhodocks, so I don't think you're in a position to rant about their strengths in vanilla.

Now this is interesting, how do you get 1200 mountain bandit to fight for? 
The biggest that i can get is 150+

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

why u guiz so mad lol?

Seriously, calm down. Every single faction in singleplayer is overpowered. I've killed 1200 Mountain Bandits with 100 Vaegir Marksmen, we took one loss. That's with normal difficulty. Admittedly that's not the same as 50 sharpshooters against 10 Mamlukes, but you're clearly not talking normal situations either. Previously, you stated that you added in Rhodock hammermen, and thus tweaked Rhodocks, so I don't think you're in a position to rant about their strengths in vanilla.

Now this is interesting, how do you get 1200 mountain bandit to fight for? 
The biggest that i can get is 150+

Maybe he killed 50 of them first, with 100 marksmen, then played a dozen more battles and added up the corpses

 

[waggywags]

Rhodoks overpowered? That's a nice thought... But really, no. How can you -lose- to -any- army? Every faction has a specific unit that counters another faction's specific unit on differing types of terrain. IE: My Rhodok army of 5 denar per crossbowman, I got 80 of them. In a flat area, I would lose to all heavily armored calvary but win against all lightly defended/moderately defended infantry. In a hilly area, I would win against heavily armored calvary but lose to infantry if I'm on a hill, if I'm not.. You get my drift?

1) First, choose where you want to fight, not be a bloody idiot who tries to place archers in a thick forest or something as stupid.
2) Then, look at the area they're appearing from and decide if you should meet them head on or soften them up with ranged.
3) ???
4) Profit!

 

[hruza]

Well I don't really see reason why all factions should be equally powerful and balanced. Unless they all use exactly the same setting including equipment, soldiers, even map position, some faction will end up advantaged other disadvantaged. So no problem here at all for me.

Problem with Rhodock is that they should supposedly be good at countering cavalry. That is why they are equipped with spears and crossbows and that is what is part of their backstory too. Well guess what, Rhodock footman suck against cavalry just like any other faction footman does. They even do not use their polearms at all. Really I am jet to see any Rhodock soldier, be it sergeant or veteran spearmen to use their polearm. Now that is bit surprising isn't it? I remember like in original MB horseman were not able to use their lances effectively and if they were equipped with any other weapon, they would never use lance at all. It got fixed in Warband to my pleasure and lance is one of the best AI cavalry weapon in game. I also suspect that problem of Rhodock not using their polearms might be in fact part of that lance AI fix. But I have no prove for it of course. In any case, I saw improvements in AI over course of development of this game but there is still room for improvement. Certainly AI does not handle Rhodock polearm equipped troops very well in current patches. And it doesn't do great job of choosing right weapon for right target in right situation in general.

 

[original]

Yeah my army of Marmalukes got massacred when sieging Almerra Castle, which had a lot of Rhodok Sharpshooters.

 

[Dayve]

Well, I play with diplomacy + OSP which gaves all the factions that previously had no cavalry... cavalry, so balances them out slightly. I don't think they're overpowered, I just captured 2 of their lords in 2 battles with only a total of 6 casualties on my side with 100% casualty rates on theirs (army sizes around 80 each), but I must admit, I quit/reloaded in one of the battles. Battle just started and myself and my 50 knights charged heroically across the field towards them. I wasn't even in front, I was somewhere near the back of the blob because my horse got lamed last battle, yet a bolt still hit me in the head doing 61 damage. (I have 60 hit points). 

 

[Do not look here]

Overpowered? No. Altough I saw them kicking some Sarranid (including mine) and Swadian (those I've seen from both sides) butts. It wasn't even at the mountains, but in the middle of the field. Conclusion? Mamelukes will roll over Rhodoks. Not enough Mamelukes, even with other Sarranid units will get killed.

But so what? I could come here and say "Vaegirs are overpowered, their Guards and Knights are easily killing most of my huscarls". Fine, but not if you remember, that Vaegirs are very rarely hiding behind shields. Nord Archers aren't useless.

Seriously, you can talk much about how 100 Mamelukes will kill all the 100 Rhodok elite army.
But 100 Mamelukes army is a thing that happens only to player, while 100 Rhodok Sharpshooters and/or Sergeants is something that is granted to their lords by God/Fate/Game/Yoshi's Fake Balance.

 

[Lancefighter]

as i recall from the last game, there was a mod out that allowed infantry with spears to do a brace spear or something like that, where cavalry running into them would get their horses pretty much killed... And since the faction with the most spear infantrymen is the rhodocks...

 

[dorostheconqueror]

Re: is it just me or Rhodoks is annoyingly overpowered?

It's just you.


Really, if you think Rhodoks are overpowered you obviously have not played with them. 10 Mamlukes > 50 Rhodok troops.

but even then I have to pray they don't target me too soon

The reason you think they are overpowered is because AI target you, prioritizes you, so 30 crossbowmen only need to hit you few times and you're dead. Never mind that your 30 Mamlukes kill entire Rhodok population including their pets.

You also probably think that Tundra bandits are better than Knights because you get javelin in the head with immense precision..

You just love to be a **** about everything, do you not?

No it is not just you, Rhodoks are very powerful, and could quite easily destroy 10 mamlukes. You get a group of 50 rhodok sharpshooters and line them up into two separate ranks and fire at the 10 mamlukes till they are within "danger close" range you'll not only kill the mamluke's chargers, but you'll most likely kill several of the mamlukes. At the point you hit stand closer a couple more times to cushion remaining mamluke's that still have horses and you hit advance ten steps, the mob devours the mamlukes trapped inside, and then you hit charge, and they go devour/shoot the dehorsed mamlukes. Really, there is no contest between 50 rhodoks and 10 mamlukes, and if you end up dying with 50 rhodoks, you're a horrible strategist.

Regarding your 30 mamluke statement, not that either. A rhodok mob of sharpshooters and sergeants will easily dehorse, knock out/down and/or kill all of them, but will probably sustain heavy loses. You throw in my expanded troop tree with Rhodok Hammermen and not a single mamluke would even touch them.

Rhodoks are by far the most efficient troops in cost/time/reward. The Nords are ahead only due to huscarls. Knights and mamluke are easily countered by simple troop maneuvering.

With all due respect, good sir, you're insane.

First off, your Theory of Opening and Closing Ranks To Magically Slay Mamluks is, despite it's quaint, rustic charm, utter rubbish. It "might" work in the hands of a patient and lucky player, but remember we're not talking about units being overpowered in the hands of a cunning player, we're talking about units being overpowered when wielded by the AI. Attention to detail! Rhodok AI commanders are, frankly, stupid as pigs, and the odds of them being able to coordinate such a series of maneuvers against your tiny band of Mamluks is virtually nill.

Second, what do you mean by "danger close" range? Do you mean the range at which Rhodok crossbowmen start shooting each other in the back of the head? I wasn't aware that was an issue, but then again, I usually stick to competent archers, like Vaegir marksmen. Knowing the quality of Rhodok troops, I wouldn't be surprised if this really was a serious issue for them.

Third, the notion that the Rhodoks would be able to "dehorse" a group of Mamluks is rather far fetched. Even with straight shots over wide open terrain, the Rhodoks won't be able to get off that many bolts thanks to their slow-as-molasses crossbow reloading "feature". All it takes is a single small hill to break their line of sight or a slightly elliptical approach to throw off their aim, and they'll be lucky to get off two good volleys before the Mamluks crash into them. Sure, MAYBE, since their AI likes to gang up on individual targets, one or two Mamluks might lose their horse. But that still leaves eight or nine mounted and in charge, more than enough to mop up the rabble. And you can forget about Rhodok crossbowmen unhorsing Mamluks in melee. They're not Nords, they're Rhodoks. You may not have noticed this (Lord knows few who have had first hand contact with hostile Mamluks live to tell the tale) but Mamluk horses are the best-armored beasts in the game. The puny melee weapons wielded by "elite" Rhodok crossbowmen may be threatening to other Rhodoks, but they're as butter knives before the mighty steeled flanks of a Mamluk stallion. Let them drop their crossbows and slap away at the Mamluks with their peasant swords! They'll just die with tired arms.

Finally, I fail to see why cheat units should factor in to this discussion. Hey, here's a thought: your Rhodok crossbows and Hammermen wouldn't take down a single one of my Mamluk Panzer Elelphants! And what?!

Look, I get it, argument for argument's sake, right? But you have to admit, unless the Rhodoks spawn on top of a cliff with three rivers and a maze of knee-high wooden stakes between them and the Mamluks, it's feeding time for the desert sands with a three course meal of Rhodok blood.

 

[Valcus]

I can understand where the OP is coming from but I'm not going to say they are overpowered by any means. It's actually been several years since I've used Rhodoks, and I've not used them in Warband. But in a rescent game where I desided to make my own faction and use only Swadian knights, I came away with an impression of how they fight against all of the other factions. This is with normal damage and good AI, most of the time using no strategy what-so-ever, just letting the knights charge.

In the open field I felt like I suffered the most casualties to Rhodok Sergents by far. They just seemed to be really hard for my knights to kill. Crossbows didn't seem to be much of a problem.

In sieges, I think it was a toss up between Sarranids and Rhodoks, with Rhodok crossbows really doing some damage but Mamluks being a virtual brick wall that was tremendously hard to break down.

I didn't feel like the other factions provided near the difficulty of the Sarranids and Rhodoks, again, against this one particular unit in these situations. So what I'm saying is that I can understand how in the right situation the Rhodoks might seem pretty tough.

On a side note, it made for a pretty fast paced game to play all knights. It was fun but I'd like to see an option where if your cavarly loses there horse, they convert to infantry or something. It would add an extra challenge to the all cavalry army. Just as a toggle mind you...I like options

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

With all due respect, good sir, you're insane.

First off, your Theory of Opening and Closing Ranks To Magically Slay Mamluks is, despite it's quaint, rustic charm, utter rubbish.

Just to illustrate the point for those who don't play with Rhodoks or don't use crossbow themselves.

Siege crossbow with Steel bolts at 176 Proficiency is doing around 20 damage to those armored swadian horses. And nothing when I hit the shield, and trust me all top tier troops have shields that are difficult to break. Anyway, with 20 damage you can go and calculate how "easy" it is to dehorse a Knight or Mamluke.
Don't also assume every bolt hits.


Now, everyone can go ahead and calculate how easy it is to "dehorse" a knight or mamluke. After which, he still has shield. After which, he still has great armor.

 

[artifex]

Finally, I fail to see why cheat units should factor in to this discussion. Hey, here's a thought: your Rhodok crossbows and Hammermen wouldn't take down a single one of my Mamluk Panzer Elelphants! And what?!

Look, I get it, argument for argument's sake, right? But you have to admit, unless the Rhodoks spawn on top of a cliff with three rivers and a maze of knee-high wooden stakes between them and the Mamluks, it's feeding time for the desert sands with a three course meal of Rhodok blood.

I won't address anything else you said as you said it yourself the discussion is of AI and my post was of cunning tactics used by a person capable of micromanagement.

They aren't "cheat" troops, not when I've spent weeks on the personal mod that I've been developing to make sure that the faction's expanded troop trees were balanced. While this term is subjective and I have no proof to show you it is merely a troop with the stats of a rhodok sergeant armed with slightly heavier armor and sledgehammers/war hammers. I'm not talking about soldiers armed in plate armor running around with 10 ironflesh/power strike/athletics and absurd proficiencies as you seem to be implying.

Also, all of you responding to my post seem to be forgetting the fact that I listed certain circumstances that would be required for a successful victory over mamlukes, and as you have said, if they do not spawn on a high terrain or near an area with high terrain they will die. I've already acknowledged this.

Finally, yes, I exaggerated in the amount of bolts that it takes to kill a knight/mamluke and since you're all flipping a *****, I apologize.

 

[Turumbar]

I always have around 60-100 garrisoned Huscarls when it comes time to seige a Rhodok controlled castle because they are the best unit suited for storming castles..high HP, bad ass shields, not to mention they specialize in close quarters combat. I use nothing but cav for open field combat, archers and mace wielding infanty for castle defense *hammer weilding troops tend to make the enemy bottle neck at ladders*.

On a side note, for those who just use their faction's troops tends to get extremely hard late game, gotta be diverse to counter other units in unique situations.

 

[CriticallyAshamed]

Now this is interesting, how do you get 1200 mountain bandit to fight for? 
The biggest that i can get is 150+

It was a friends mod. All he did was change the number of bandit parties on each map, the possibility that bandits will gang on you (as in, multiple parties will all group up) and somewhat increased the amount per party (maybe 40 a party?). I managed to stumble upon a mountain bandit lair stashed in a tight canyon where there were easily ~25 groups of the suckers. It was a lot of waves of reinforcements though...

Turumber: Are you kidding? All you need is a group of top tier. Best: Knights or Mamlukes, maybe Huscarls. After that you never need to bother with Rhodocks or Vaegirs unless you particularly _want_ archers.

 

[Old One-Eye]

Well, it's like this.

Rhodoks have the best king.

Their other armor looks good and pleasant to the eye.

They have the best weaponry which is suited to counter-warfare. That's what I like the most. Not who brings the biggest club. I prefer crossbow over bow in the game, great hammer is... amazing (loved it in multiplayer, but now I use it in singleplayer too and it totally rules, AI on good blocks a lot but not anymore hehe and shields don't matter). Pike is great. Glaive is a variation of Guan Dao and Naginata (although I don't like the weapon itself in the game right now).

Playing as Rhodoks gives me best foot combat experience, because I have proper support from behind, but my troops don't block my way (as when playing with Nords). Or, when playing with cavalry as cavalry, I have to 'dig' through my own lines because Mamlukes just overrun everything and I barely have any kills

Their reliance on crossbow reminds me of chinese, whom I like.

I like their architecture. Almerra castle is the closest to Japanese style of castle combat as you can get in this game.

So basically you like the Rhodoks for similar reasons that a football fan likes his football team? Heh.

 

[regiment77]

Re: is it just me or Rhodoks is annoyingly overpowered?

It's just you.


Really, if you think Rhodoks are overpowered you obviously have not played with them. 10 Mamlukes > 50 Rhodok troops.

but even then I have to pray they don't target me too soon

The reason you think they are overpowered is because AI target you, prioritizes you, so 30 crossbowmen only need to hit you few times and you're dead. Never mind that your 30 Mamlukes kill entire Rhodok population including their pets.

You also probably think that Tundra bandits are better than Knights because you get javelin in the head with immense precision..

You just love to be a **** about everything, do you not?

No it is not just you, Rhodoks are very powerful, and could quite easily destroy 10 mamlukes. You get a group of 50 rhodok sharpshooters and line them up into two separate ranks and fire at the 10 mamlukes till they are within "danger close" range you'll not only kill the mamluke's chargers, but you'll most likely kill several of the mamlukes. At the point you hit stand closer a couple more times to cushion remaining mamluke's that still have horses and you hit advance ten steps, the mob devours the mamlukes trapped inside, and then you hit charge, and they go devour/shoot the dehorsed mamlukes. Really, there is no contest between 50 rhodoks and 10 mamlukes, and if you end up dying with 50 rhodoks, you're a horrible strategist.

Regarding your 30 mamluke statement, not that either. A rhodok mob of sharpshooters and sergeants will easily dehorse, knock out/down and/or kill all of them, but will probably sustain heavy loses. You throw in my expanded troop tree with Rhodok Hammermen and not a single mamluke would even touch them.

Rhodoks are by far the most efficient troops in cost/time/reward. The Nords are ahead only due to huscarls. Knights and mamluke are easily countered by simple troop maneuvering.

With all due respect, good sir, you're insane.

First off, your Theory of Opening and Closing Ranks To Magically Slay Mamluks is, despite it's quaint, rustic charm, utter rubbish. It "might" work in the hands of a patient and lucky player, but remember we're not talking about units being overpowered in the hands of a cunning player, we're talking about units being overpowered when wielded by the AI. Attention to detail! Rhodok AI commanders are, frankly, stupid as pigs, and the odds of them being able to coordinate such a series of maneuvers against your tiny band of Mamluks is virtually nill.

Second, what do you mean by "danger close" range? Do you mean the range at which Rhodok crossbowmen start shooting each other in the back of the head? I wasn't aware that was an issue, but then again, I usually stick to competent archers, like Vaegir marksmen. Knowing the quality of Rhodok troops, I wouldn't be surprised if this really was a serious issue for them.

Third, the notion that the Rhodoks would be able to "dehorse" a group of Mamluks is rather far fetched. Even with straight shots over wide open terrain, the Rhodoks won't be able to get off that many bolts thanks to their slow-as-molasses crossbow reloading "feature". All it takes is a single small hill to break their line of sight or a slightly elliptical approach to throw off their aim, and they'll be lucky to get off two good volleys before the Mamluks crash into them. Sure, MAYBE, since their AI likes to gang up on individual targets, one or two Mamluks might lose their horse. But that still leaves eight or nine mounted and in charge, more than enough to mop up the rabble. And you can forget about Rhodok crossbowmen unhorsing Mamluks in melee. They're not Nords, they're Rhodoks. You may not have noticed this (Lord knows few who have had first hand contact with hostile Mamluks live to tell the tale) but Mamluk horses are the best-armored beasts in the game. The puny melee weapons wielded by "elite" Rhodok crossbowmen may be threatening to other Rhodoks, but they're as butter knives before the mighty steeled flanks of a Mamluk stallion. Let them drop their crossbows and slap away at the Mamluks with their peasant swords! They'll just die with tired arms.

Finally, I fail to see why cheat units should factor in to this discussion. Hey, here's a thought: your Rhodok crossbows and Hammermen wouldn't take down a single one of my Mamluk Panzer Elelphants! And what?!

Look, I get it, argument for argument's sake, right? But you have to admit, unless the Rhodoks spawn on top of a cliff with three rivers and a maze of knee-high wooden stakes between them and the Mamluks, it's feeding time for the desert sands with a three course meal of Rhodok blood.

Now, i'm going to start of by agreeing with you on MOST PARTS

But you are short changing rhodoks a bit
the crossbowmen are actually pretty damn good in melee, and i've personally witnessed one take down a mamluk
rhodoks in general are decent fighters, they just have spearman problems until they get to tier 4-5 and crossbowmen start out being pretty good. don't get me wrong, they arent overpowered, but they arent a weaklling faction by any means
or at least, in my opinion and experiences

 

[Velax]

They aren't "cheat" troops, not when I've spent weeks on the personal mod that I've been developing to make sure that the faction's expanded troop trees were balanced. While this term is subjective and I have no proof to show you it is merely a troop with the stats of a rhodok sergeant armed with slightly heavier armor and sledgehammers/war hammers. I'm not talking about soldiers armed in plate armor running around with 10 ironflesh/power strike/athletics and absurd proficiencies as you seem to be implying.

Doesn't matter whether or not they're cheat troops, using troops that don't exist in Native as an example of how Rhodoks can beat Mamlukes is really not even vaguely relevant.