Ira should inherit (and it is mentioned she will in dialogue) the Empire, yet as she is not listed as Rhagaea's daughter, Ulbos does.. Please fix this

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There's actually three separate issues here.

1. Ira isn't listed as Rhagaea's daughter, which is an easy fix (just like that person on reddit says). I reported this bug and provided the fix on basically the first day the game came out, but it still hasn't been patched.

2. Even if you DO fix that, inheritance seems to be eldest-male preference, which is why that rando Ulbos gets it. Ira is last in line, and only if there are no males. This is exactly backwards. This requires TW to fix the inheritance logic or add a policy for the Southern Empire to address this.

3. Finally, for *all* heirs, whoever you marry leaves their clan and enters yours. This is very strange and significantly reduces the value of marrying heirs. It's especially weird for disinheriting Ira, since the Southern Empire's whole ethos is that Ira has the legitimate hereditary claim to the throne, and Rhagaea specifically wants Ira to have a responsible imperial consort when she becomes empress.
 

Wehveechen

Regular
While it makes no sense gameplay wise, I assume it's a balancing choice not to let players have an easy way into power. Because I assume then it's always questionable just how to handle the difference between "this character is the faction leader" but also "this character is my spouse for spouse things" in a satisfying manner that makes sense.
 
While it makes no sense gameplay wise, I assume it's a balancing choice not to let players have an easy way into power. Because I assume then it's always questionable just how to handle the difference between "this character is the faction leader" but also "this character is my spouse for spouse things" in a satisfying manner that makes sense.

Balancing choice? Then hardcode in, if this is an Ira-specific problem, another civil war. Add more options, not less, always. Also, the Lords can choose to opt out of matrilineality and attack Rhagaea or something
 

Wehveechen

Regular
Balancing choice? Then hardcode in, if this is an Ira-specific problem, another civil war. Add more options, not less, always. Also, the Lords can choose to opt out of matrilineality and attack Rhagaea or something
Well. I married Alary, oldest son of Detherd. He can't really become King either. So technically, you'd have to hardcode it for any ruler offspring to avoid this exact issue.
Also, hardcode is the devil and should be avoided whenever possible. The game needs to work based on general rules as opposed to hardcoded facts specific to only one character.
 

Owen Wulfson

Knight at Arms
I'll be honest - marrying a prince/princess and having your child inherit the throne of a faction is actually not that much easier than founding your own kingdom. In fact, I would argue that it would take far longer and would probably put you in a weird position when the coronation finally comes up. Your child is of your clan, but the original clan members probably won't be happy with this - it should honestly lead to an instant civil war.

So, if the player is allowed to marry Ira then I think Taleworld should allow the descendant to inherit the Imperial Throne.
 
I'll be honest - marrying a prince/princess and having your child inherit the throne of a faction is actually not that much easier than founding your own kingdom. In fact, I would argue that it would take far longer and would probably put you in a weird position when the coronation finally comes up. Your child is of your clan, but the original clan members probably won't be happy with this - it should honestly lead to an instant civil war.

So, if the player is allowed to marry Ira then I think Taleworld should allow the descendant to inherit the Imperial Throne.

Or at least have a good shot at it.
 
While it makes no sense gameplay wise, I assume it's a balancing choice not to let players have an easy way into power. Because I assume then it's always questionable just how to handle the difference between "this character is the faction leader" but also "this character is my spouse for spouse things" in a satisfying manner that makes sense.

It should definitely require gameplay mechanics that don't currently exist, instead of just catapulting you into a kingdom ruler status.
 

Wehveechen

Regular
It should definitely require gameplay mechanics that don't currently exist, instead of just catapulting you into a kingdom ruler status.
An interesting compromise would be that you can also request to summon your spouse's party into your army. Other than that, I don't feel like being married to the faction leader should actually have advantages. Much as I love "marry my way to the top" tropes, it shouldn't become a cheap shortcut to power.
 

imgran

Squire
Inheritance should be divorced from family anyway. Especially in the pseudo-Roman empire where it seems like over half the heirs were adopted or appointed or usurpers rather than biological children.

It should be possible to politic and bribe your way into being the heir.
 

R4MPZY

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I have always been under the impression from devblogs that when a faction leader dies the next ruling clan got voted, and it didnt just stay within a clan ?
 
For this to work out, marriage needs to be more difficult too. Right now, it's too easy to marry heirs. I do agree, though. I somehow doubt they will allow it. It's typically only founding your own faction, or being a vassal. I doubt they will do a good job with it, but the base game is better than the previous, so when they release mod tools, I'm positive things will be much better.
 
In the game, it specifically says that Rhagaea is looking for a man to marry Ira to reign her in and she doesn't have the support of the senators who are wishy washy about her. She is the heir-apparent, but it also makes sense that she might not inherit if her mother dies and she is unmarried (as in senators might try to pull one over on her). It is a possible scenario, would be cool if they could implement some cool stuff around this somehow. Like, another rebellion or schism or something, or she raises an army and fights back if she doesn't inherit, but if she marries she inherits. Probably asking for too much though.
 
In the game, it specifically says that Rhagaea is looking for a man to marry Ira to reign her in and she doesn't have the support of the senators who are wishy washy about her. She is the heir-apparent, but it also makes sense that she might not inherit if her mother dies and she is unmarried (as in senators might try to pull one over on her). It is a possible scenario, would be cool if they could implement some cool stuff around this somehow. Like, another rebellion or schism or something, or she raises an army and fights back if she doesn't inherit, but if she marries she inherits. Probably asking for too much though.

That's all I ask for. It's a sandbox, we should be able to do whatever we want, with varying degrees of giant walls smashing into us (like trying to just fornicate our way as Emperor)
 
In the game, it specifically says that Rhagaea is looking for a man to marry Ira to reign her in and she doesn't have the support of the senators who are wishy washy about her. She is the heir-apparent, but it also makes sense that she might not inherit if her mother dies and she is unmarried (as in senators might try to pull one over on her). It is a possible scenario, would be cool if they could implement some cool stuff around this somehow. Like, another rebellion or schism or something, or she raises an army and fights back if she doesn't inherit, but if she marries she inherits. Probably asking for too much though.

The senators who don't want her to inherit are in the Northern Empire. The senators from the south support her hereditary right to rule, that's why they're backing Rhagaea in the first place.:p

They're basically describing why there's a civil war.
 
The senators who don't want her to inherit are in the Northern Empire. The senators from the south support her hereditary right to rule, that's why they're backing Rhagaea in the first place.:p

They're basically describing why there's a civil war.

Not necessarily, they back Rhagaea because she is the wife of the Emperor, but it doesn't mean they back Ira. Also, if you talk to Ira, she even states how if she were a man, the senators would be all over her in supporting her. Just because they support Rhagaea doesn't mean they support Ira or perhaps they assume that she will marry and there will be an heir etc. anyway. It also states that Rhagaea really wants to find a husband for her to produce an heir, so I think that is a big part of it.
 
Not necessarily, they back Rhagaea because she is the wife of the Emperor, but it doesn't mean they back Ira. Also, if you talk to Ira, she even states how if she were a man, the senators would be all over her in supporting her. Just because they support Rhagaea doesn't mean they support Ira or perhaps they assume that she will marry and there will be an heir etc. anyway. It also states that Rhagaea really wants to find a husband for her to produce an heir, so I think that is a big part of it.

Again, she's talking about the Northern Empire. If you talk to the lords of the South, they say they're in favor of monarchy and letting the ruler's children inherit. That's literally the entire point of the southern Empire. They're all described as monarchist clans in the comments in the files, too.

Ira *is* the heir. That's what she's saying. She was saying none of this would have ever been an issue if she were a male, but because she isn't, there's this 3-way civil war.

The encyclopedia specifically calls her Rhagaea's heir apparent -- that means the set heir by blood. There's no doubting the claim of an heir apparent -- that's not the same as an heir presumptive. Rhagaea wants her to marry in order to 1. rein in her impulsive tendencies and 2. produce more heirs AFTER Ira.

If Ira isn't Rhagaea's heir, Rhagaea has no claim. Her whole basis for ruling is to rule on behalf of Arenicos's child. This, too, is made abundantly clear by Rhagaea -- she is fighting so that Arenicos can leave what he had to his child.
 
Again, she's talking about the Northern Empire. If you talk to the lords of the South, they say they're in favor of monarchy and letting the ruler's children inherit. That's literally the entire point of the southern Empire. They're all described as monarchist clans in the comments in the files, too.

Ira *is* the heir. That's what she's saying. She was saying none of this would have ever been an issue if she were a male, but because she isn't, there's this 3-way civil war.

The encyclopedia specifically calls her Rhagaea's heir apparent -- that means the set heir by blood. There's no doubting the claim of an heir apparent -- that's not the same as an heir presumptive. Rhagaea wants her to marry in order to 1. rein in her impulsive tendencies and 2. produce more heirs AFTER Ira.

If Ira isn't Rhagaea's heir, Rhagaea has no claim. Her whole basis for ruling is to rule on behalf of Arenicos's child. This, too, is made abundantly clear by Rhagaea -- she is fighting so that Arenicos can leave what he had to his child.

I understand all of this, you are just reiterating most of what I already said. However, that doesn't mean that it is set in stone. Senators could be pretending to support them for their own benefit or selfish interests, but who knows once Rhagaea dies and Ira has no consort or child of her own. You can't take what they all say at face value as they are nobles heh. Also, her basis of rule isn't necessarily Ira, but the progeny of the emperor. Yes, Ira is the emperor's child, but the senators may be looking beyond that to Ira's children. Basically her having a son. They also might be thinking how they could maneuver to place one of their own as her husband so that the children are part of their family, etc.
 

Calathar

Knight
WBWF&SNW
if that would be the case, all players would marry only her to get free Empire. So please don;t add such possibility...
 
Also, her basis of rule isn't necessarily Ira, but the progeny of the emperor. Yes, Ira is the emperor's child, but the senators may be looking beyond that to Ira's children. Basically her having a son. They also might be thinking how they could maneuver to place one of their own as her husband so that the children are part of their family, etc.

Oh, I definitely agree with all of that. It's not because of Ira specifically, but because she's Arenicos's child. And sure, I bet the noble families would love to marry their own heirs to Ira in order to get a piece of the pie. But the line of succession still goes through Ira. Thus, she should inherit after Rhagaea.

if that would be the case, all players would marry only her to get free Empire. So please don;t add such possibility...

That's irrelevant, though -- you could say the same about marrying any male ruler who inherits, including that Ulbos rando.

They would only be consort, not the ruler. Currently there's no mechanism to be married to a ruler because when you marry, your spouse moves to your clan. There really ought to be a different mechanic for becoming the consort of a ruler, where you CAN marry a ruling spouse, but the ruling spouse stays the ruler.

Also, marrying a claimant to get a path to power is literally a huge part of medieval noble politics, like we're discussing just above.
 
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