Insufficient Vendor Cash for Viable Trading

[Saber Cherry]

Trading got quite a large change in .95x, and seems a bit more interesting and dynamic now, though not quite right.  But as a player, it can be pretty difficult to supply your army's salary (especially if you have garrisons!) - indeed, I find it impossible to do without constant trading, whether I want to or not.

That's OK, except that trading is greatly complicated and made unnecessarily frustrating by the fact that vendors have ridiculously tiny amounts of money.  For example, a horse vendor with 40,000 denar in inventory will typically have under 750 denar in cash, which is just absurd - he can't afford any of his upper-tier horses.

This means that I can buy a load of Velvet in some city, and be unable to sell even a single bolt anywhere in an entire country for its local value, because no vendor ever has the 1200 denar it is worth.  At most, I can sell one bolt to the general goods merchant for about 1000 denar, and to sell my entire load (of, say, 9 bolts), I have to find and visit 9 cities that all have a high price for velvet.  Or camp in one city for two weeks, during which time 2 paydays will go by.  Or trade for something I don't want or need, like a piece of armor, which does not in any way help me make payday and I can't resell for more than 10% of its cost.

This is frustrating and unrealistic, and I don't see any reason to limit the cash of vendors to a level insufficient for them to even buy their own goods.

 

[Shik]

I completely agree, what's the point of trading if you can't sell it to the merchant? I find the fact I have to purchase things to counteract the profit I make is just annoying.

@Saber Cherry - Also "bolts" of velvet? 

 

[RayvenQ]

I completely agree, what's the point of trading if you can't sell it to the merchant? I find the fact I have to purchase things to counteract the profit I make is just annoying.

@Saber Cherry - Also "bolts" of velvet? 

A bolt, when reffered to Textiles is  a large roll of cloth of a definite length, especially as it comes from the loom.

 

[linehand]

I agree to a certain extent..

Vendors should have a little more cash to work with but not so much that you can just make one trip and earn 20,000 denar.

If you are trading in the most expensive luxury items then it makes sense that not everyone can just buy your entire inventory every day.

I would say double or maybe triple the amount of money that vendors are currently working with in 952. You will still need to do a bit of traveling to unload 20 sacks of spice but not to the excessive degree of selling one bag in every city for less than it's selling price (which is about how it works now).


Edited for teh tipyng mistkaktes

 

[Vovolov]

Maybe the skill Trade could have a 20%-40%-60%, etc. increase in vendor cash?

 

[Vovolov]

That really makes no sense at all.

It's late. 

 

[SKnight]

they should increase there coins. So many times I have had to just take what the merchant has!

 

[Riptokus]

I haven't noticed this problem. I suspect prosperity of the towns has something to do with it though.

 

[Triosta]

Any script you can edit that will change a city's income gaining rate? I noticed that Tihr, after being cleaned of money, gains about 500 denars the next day. Of course if you change it, all the big cities will turn extremely rich instead of taking all their money and blocking all the caravans to make them very poor.

 

[Melquiades]

I actually find it more fun to play this way because I have to do an effort to resupply my coffers. Instead of waiting around until they refill their wallet or traveling around a bunch of towns trying to sell all of your stock, you might want to try trading it for other valuable goods that your can resell in other towns, while keeping a profit margin. This way you don't waste any time, you make a nice profit and you don't leave the merchants pennyless.

 

[Saber Cherry]

I actually find it more fun to play this way because I have to do an effort to resupply my coffers.

I don't like arbitrary, artificial challenges.  You can make the game harder by turning off your monitor, too, or randomly having the merchants steal all your money...

Instead of waiting around until they refill their wallet or traveling around a bunch of towns trying to sell all of your stock, you might want to try trading it for other valuable goods that your can resell in other towns, while keeping a profit margin.

Does not work, because you cannot resell anything from the weapons, armor, and horse dealer for a substantial portion of their value.  All you can do is buy from the goods vendor and sell that junk to the horse vendor for a loss, which is asinine and you shouldn't have to do.  As for going from town to town, I already have to do that, and I don't have room to make a profit doing it with assorted 50-denar commodities.

 

[linehand]

Personally I think doubling it would be fine. As many places could then buy 2-3 sacks of spice but there still may be places that at times can't even afford 1.. Doubling it would mean a little less running around to sell stuff but you would still have to run around.

The other part of the problem though is that trading should really be a little more of an optional pursuit than it is now.. Granted the arena tournaments are also a decent source of income early on.. I still think there needs to be something more done about this. Running around buying and selling is not really an exciting pursuit and to many players it may be a real turn off.

The quests should provide more money, as it is most quests provide so little money that it is not a viable way to make your income. I know there is also the mercenary job too but it is a 3 month commitment and it doesn't really play out very well. There should be one off mercenary jobs that pay well.. Like take a certain castle for 10,000 denar, or take a city for 15,000 denar (prices could be based on the city/castles current garrison).. If you have accepted this type of quest then when you take that particular castle it will automatically go to the faction that gave you the contract and you can go back and get your pay. Lesser contracts too, like defeat lord what's-his'head and his army for 2000 denar. These kinds of jobs would be a viable source of income and they would make trading goods a less mandatory pursuit.

Edit:
There should be some better upgrades for fiefs too so that if you put some time and money into upgrading your fiefs they would really provide a much greater income to the player. As it is upgrading them costs money and time but the pay-off is barely noticeable.

The idea should be that if you want to make money as a trader you will need to do some running around, but you shouldn't have to be a trader at all if you don't want to.

 

[Triosta]

One time I captured King Ragnar and 9 of his lords. That took care of my money for a looooong time. Of course, I didn't know that letting lords go after you beat them got you honour. Not sure what honour does. I think it unlocks Lady what's-her-face, the one that refuses to give me any quests to champion her honour against other lords.

 

[Steele]

If you don't capture the Lords you also get about +5 to relationship as well as the honour rating.

Right now, despite being at war with the Vaegirs, a number of the Vaeigr Lords are quite friendly toward me because I don't capture them

 

[Orion]

One time I captured King Ragnar and 9 of his lords. That took care of my money for a looooong time. Of course, I didn't know that letting lords go after you beat them got you honour. Not sure what honour does. I think it unlocks Lady what's-her-face, the one that refuses to give me any quests to champion her honour against other lords.

I don't think honor has anything to do with those quests. At the moment, Honor does nothing. However, the ransom prices on lords are 3,000 each, right? I ransomed a king once for 18,000. I didn't know what to spend all that money on, because I already had plenty of gear!

If you don't capture the Lords you also get about +5 to relationship as well as the honour rating.

Right now, despite being at war with the Vaegirs, a number of the Vaeigr Lords are quite friendly toward me because I don't capture them

Not always. One time, my relations with a Lord went from 0 to -20 because I let him go. He thought it was dishonorable, receiving mercy from an enemy, so he pouted about it and ran home. He was a nord, by the way.

 

[Saber Cherry]

Personally I think doubling it would be fine. As many places could then buy 2-3 sacks of spice but there still may be places that at times can't even afford 1.. Doubling it would mean a little less running around to sell stuff but you would still have to run around.

The other part of the problem though is that trading should really be a little more of an optional pursuit than it is now.. Granted the arena tournaments are also a decent source of income early on.. I still think there needs to be something more done about this. Running around buying and selling is not really an exciting pursuit and to many players it may be a real turn off.

The quests should provide more money, as it is most quests provide so little money that it is not a viable way to make your income. I know there is also the mercenary job too but it is a 3 month commitment and it doesn't really play out very well. There should be one off mercenary jobs that pay well.. Like take a certain castle for 10,000 denar, or take a city for 15,000 denar (prices could be based on the city/castles current garrison).. If you have accepted this type of quest then when you take that particular castle it will automatically go to the faction that gave you the contract and you can go back and get your pay. Lesser contracts too, like defeat lord what's-his'head and his army for 2000 denar. These kinds of jobs would be a viable source of income and they would make trading goods a less mandatory pursuit.

Edit:
There should be some better upgrades for fiefs too so that if you put some time and money into upgrading your fiefs they would really provide a much greater income to the player. As it is upgrading them costs money and time but the pay-off is barely noticeable.

The idea should be that if you want to make money as a trader you will need to do some running around, but you shouldn't have to be a trader at all if you don't want to.

Good post with good ideas.  I agree with all of it.

 

[Triosta]

I don't really agree with increasing the money quests give. Looking at the character roster right now, some of my factions lords have as little as 91 denars to their name. They're dirt broke. No wonder their armors sucks.

 

[Saber Cherry]

AI economy is horribly broken, though   At least in .951, they could routinely go 10000 denars into debt.  10000 denars is certainly a lot for a single quest, but I wouldn't give up a castle or city for 10000 denars!  So it is not too much of a reward for taking a city for someone else, for example, in my opinion.

 

[linehand]

Well, 10,000 does sound like a lot but the whole point is to have an option besides tournaments and trading.  I can raise 10,000 denars by running all over the map and selling goods pretty quickly, and if I hit a tournament or 2 along the way...

As it is now there is no alternative to trading and tournaments that will make you anywhere near as much money as quickly.

Well, if you go against a faction without a claimant's backing thus starting the non-claimant (white) rebellion, then you can have like 5 cities and 10 castles and dozens of fiefs and you can make a great deal of money just off those holdings, but that is a whole different thing. Most players are tied to a faction and won't have nearly that many holdings of their own.

 

[Zalson]

Completely agree. Move this to the correct forum!

Vendors should have enough cash to buy their most expensive item at least once (of course, I'd like to see the amount of cash available/amount of goods be based on the town's prosperity; for this to happen, the Ichamur-Narra trading bug has to be fixed.