Information about developments at snowballing problem

Users who are viewing this thread

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
It is accepted and will be added for player is king scenario. I also wanted to see this in player is vassal scenario but I accept it can be a bit weird. Still I prefer to add it even player is vassal with high decline influence cost. So if player is vassal still opponent faction will not initiate peace - our kingdom will have to make inside voting.

In the future this feature can be changed and opposite side offer can go a secondary voting inside our kingdom for both player is king and vassal scenarios. We will add first this feature as we talk above.

I will try to make this feature is merged to 1.6.1 (it's tests started maybe i can't)
 
It is accepted and will be added for player is king scenario. I also wanted to see this in player is vassal scenario but I accept it can be a bit weird. Still I prefer to add it even player is vassal with high decline influence cost. So if player is vassal still opponent faction will not initiate peace - our kingdom will have to make inside voting.

In the future this feature can be changed and opposite side offer can go a secondary voting inside our kingdom for both player is king and vassal scenarios. We will add first this feature as we talk above.

I will try to make this feature is merged to 1.6.1 (it's tests started maybe i can't)
Dope my man.
 
To resume current AI design + new addition / last decision

--From player sideFrom player sideFrom AI sideFrom AI side
--War declarationPeace proposalWar declarationPeace proposal
Player as a kingYesYesYesYes
Player as a vassal YesYesYesNo

--From player sideFrom player sideFrom AI sideFrom AI side
--War declarationPeace proposalWar declarationPeace proposal
Player as a kingPlayer can votePlayer can voteN/APlayer can vote
Player as a vassalPlayer can votePlayer can voteN/ANo vote

I really hope that the peace proposal from ennemy side, when player is a vassal, will be implemented.
As it is now, in a situation where player side is winning, there is no chance of peace...
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
As it is now, in a situation where player side is winning, there is no chance of peace...
Actually you can still initiate peace voting inside your kingdom in a scenario player's kingdom is winning a war, you can still get a tribute payment. However I accept in some cases player is stuck on war and his own clans do not accept peace with conditions shown at diplomacy window (other clans do not like shown tribute deal). However it is still not guarenteed with new addition player will get good peace offers from enemy. Player will be able to get a bit better offers than what he see at his diplomacy window. Now player will have 2 choices. He can wait his enemy to send a bit better offer or he can initiate a peace voting with shown conditions.
 
Last edited:
Actually you can still initiate peace voting inside your kingdom in a scenario player's kingdom is winning a war, you can still get a tribute payment. However I accept in some cases player is stuck on war and his own clans do not accept peace with conditions shown at diplomacy window (other clans do not like shown tribute deal). However it is still not guarenteed with new addition player will get good peace offers from enemy. Player will be able to get a bit better offers than what he see at his diplomacy window. Now player will have 2 choices. He can wait his enemy to send a bit better offer or he can initiate a peace voting with shown conditions.
Great work and thank you!
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Thank you @mexxico and @Duh_TaleWorlds. We will finally have peace

giphy.gif
 
Actually you can still initiate peace voting inside your kingdom in a scenario player's kingdom is winning a war, you can still get a tribute payment. However I accept in some cases player is stuck on war and his own clans do not accept peace with conditions shown at diplomacy window (other clans do not like shown tribute deal). However it is still not guarenteed with new addition player will get good peace offers from enemy. Player will be able to get a bit better offers than what he see at his diplomacy window. Now player will have 2 choices. He can wait his enemy to send a bit better offer or he can initiate a peace voting with shown conditions.
(y)
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
By the way as previous peace offer from player's enemy design (from @Blood Gryphon ) is partly accepted - only accepted for player is king case - I also offer a secondary design for "player is vassal" case. Here you can see how it works :

ysN96.png

964Mc.png

jJZK7.png

raFSB.png

We can discuss this design. Some additional points :

1-Because of all peace votings works same and always only one side voting happens, enemy only votes a peace deal which our clans accept so there is currently nearly no chance player to stop this offer to be accepted at player's kingdom voting. What max player can do is spending 150 influence and selecting "fully push no to peace" if he wants war to be continued. However this problem is not related to this additional design. At Bannerlord there always be one voting for peace. When a peace is voted inside a kingdom they always vote with terms enemy accepts.

ab1vK.png

2-I think in future there can be a very good addition to vote system and player can spend influence and change ideas of some voter clans. Especially if voter is friend of player. So if this feature is added in future even at start most clans accept peace offer of enemy still player can effect clans and spend influence and change their ideas. By the way I do not know if this feature will be added or not. Just an optional idea.

3-I think solving problem for even only "player is king" scenario it is still a good step forward but "player is vassal" scenario is more common compared to "player is king" scenario. If this secondary design is added enemy of player will send offers to player's kingdom with good tribute amounts in a case where that enemy kingdom faced multiple enemies. As you know if we do not add this and if player is a vassal of faction X and if they are enemy with faction Y, and if faction Z also declare war to faction Y, faction Y now can only initiate peace voting inside to peace with faction Z which is unfair situation for faction X (which is player is vassal).

By the way these additions (previous + this one) are not big improvements but I need to get approve to apply these thats why process takes time.
 
Last edited:

murtega

Knight
We can discuss this design. Some additional points :

1-Because of all peace votings works same and always only one side voting happens, enemy only votes a peace deal which our clans accept so there is currently nearly no chance player to stop this offer to be accepted at player's kingdom voting. What max player can do is spending 150 influence and selecting "fully push no to peace" if he wants war to be continued. However this problem is not related to this additional design. At Bannerlord there always be one voting for peace. When a peace is voted inside a kingdom they always vote with terms enemy accepts.
When we, as a vassal, try to trigger voting for peace, we see a percentage of acceptance on the screen. (It's usually 0% or 100% but not always). Is this also connected to when enemy would offer peace in this scenario? If it is, during the war depending on if we win/lose a big battle or conquer/lose a settlement, this percentage goes up/down to around 50% that we can actually turn the voting in our favor by spending influence. Maybe it'd be better if AI offers peace mostly during these little periods so player would really have a say in voting. Otherwise it's impossible to change the outcome when all other vassals vote against you.
 
By the way as previous peace offer from player's enemy design (from @Blood Gryphon ) is partly accepted - only accepted for player is king case - I also offer a secondary design for "player is vassal" case. Here you can see how it works :

ysN96.png

964Mc.png

jJZK7.png

raFSB.png

We can discuss this design. Some additional points :

1-Because of all peace votings works same and always only one side voting happens, enemy only votes a peace deal which our clans accept so there is currently nearly no chance player to stop this offer to be accepted at player's kingdom voting. What max player can do is spending 150 influence and selecting "fully push no to peace" if he wants war to be continued. However this problem is not related to this additional design. At Bannerlord there always be one voting for peace. When a peace is voted inside a kingdom they always vote with terms enemy accepts.

ab1vK.png

2-I think in future there can be a very good addition to vote system and player can spend influence and change ideas of some voter clans. Especially if voter is friend of player. So if this feature is added in future even at start most clans accept peace offer of enemy still player can effect clans and spend influence and change their ideas. By the way I do not know if this feature will be added or not. Just an optional idea.

3-I think solving problem for even only "player is king" scenario it is still a good step forward but "player is vassal" scenario is more common compared to "player is king" scenario. If this secondary design is added enemy of player will send offers to player's kingdom with good tribute amounts in a case where that enemy kingdom faced multiple enemies. As you know if we do not add this and if player is a vassal of faction X and if they are enemy with faction Y, and if faction Z also declare war to faction Y, faction Y now can only initiate peace voting inside to peace with faction Z which is unfair situation for faction X (which is player is vassal).

By the way these additions (previous + this one) are not big improvements but I need to get approve to apply these thats why process takes time.
Sounds good but I have some concerns:

Are steps 1 and 2 mandatory?
There are already plenty of notifications and it seems quite annoying to click a "ok" button just to get another voting notification directly afterwards.

If steps 1&2 can be deleted, then step 3 notification could be simply renamed as "Northen Empire wants to make peace" "They will pay us a daily tribute"

In any cases, this addition is a must have and I really hope it will be approved.

Thx for the efforts!
 

madnessario

Knight
Great work mexxico, i like both features. I do not understand why options that allow player agency are not instantly approved. It should be the main priority for any game, the player needs to make the choices even if at the moment the choice would be simple (in the future this can be expanded, like you suggested).

Are steps 1 and 2 mandatory?
There are already plenty of notifications and it seems quite annoying to click a "ok" button just to get another voting notification directly afterwards.

If steps 1&2 can be deleted, then step 3 notification could be simply renamed as "Northen Empire wants to make peace" "They will pay us a daily tribute"

This! If this is approved then there is no point showing the first two to the player. Just show the voting screen for peace/no peace.

ps: good job @Blood Gryphon !
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
First of all, I would like to say once again that I love these synergistic dev-fan expressions.
Good job to all parties involved.

giphy.gif


Having said that, I would like to know what @Apocal thinks about it, as he is much more in control of this part of the game than I am (I haven't run any deep campaigns so far).
 

Nodice83

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Great stuff @mexxico, @Blood Gryphon,

I do not mind those additional pop-ups, but it should also work in a way described by @Spinozart1 .

2-I think in future there can be a very good addition to vote system and player can spend influence and change ideas of some voter clans. Especially if voter is friend of player. So if this feature is added in future even at start most clans accept peace offer of enemy still player can effect clans and spend influence and change their ideas. By the way I do not know if this feature will be added or not. Just an optional idea.
This is how it worked in Warband, right? Where you could influence some lords to vote in your favor. Does your idea consider influencing the lords by just clicking/spending influence points on this very war/peace screen? Or would it require getting to the lord in person or sending a messenger to convince him/her? This would be a really major addition!

1-Because of all peace votings works same and always only one side voting happens, enemy only votes a peace deal which our clans accept so there is currently nearly no chance player to stop this offer to be accepted at player's kingdom voting. What max player can do is spending 150 influence and selecting "fully push no to peace" if he wants war to be continued. However this problem is not related to this additional design. At Bannerlord there always be one voting for peace. When a peace is voted inside a kingdom they always vote with terms enemy accepts.
Did you consider an 'influence slider' (instead of 3 steps of influencing)? That would allow the player to motivate the king to change his mind against all odds. E.G. Spending the 300 influence points to prevent the kingdom from peace out when we are crushing the enemy? That would most of the time deplete the player's influence and sentence him for the long-time dependency of others but can save the kingdom from collapsing.

Just a quick question to understand the peace-out decision rationale of an AI faction I am in:

I play as Battania's vassal, we struggled in the war with Vlandians. Finally, we turned the situation around, but unfortunately bleed out the kingdom heavily (many lords died in battle), gained 2 castles and a city of Sargot. My inf. points won't allow me to start peace negotiations but I see there is an option where Vlandia is paying us a small tribute. At the same time, they regrouped and strike back with their reinforced army. If there is a right time to stop the war it is now. What would be the major factor for the AI to stop when winning, compared to losing?

P.S. It is not to you personally @mexxico because you were always close to the fanbase but I see a trend of TW devs check in on the forum more and more often. Wonder if this is a coincidence, vacation time, or changing the policy wind in TW. Maybe just my delusions.
 
Last edited:

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Having said that, I would like to know what @Apocal thinks about it, as he is much more in control of this part of the game than I am (I haven't run any deep campaigns so far).
Anything @Blood Gryphon suggests is good and this is solid gold all-around. There might be some strange offers because the diplomacy AI sometimes has temporary insanity but since the player can turn it down that's automatic buffer against it being a negative.

The secondary design for vassals looks good as well.
Are steps 1 and 2 mandatory?
There are already plenty of notifications and it seems quite annoying to click a "ok" button just to get another voting notification directly afterwards.

If steps 1&2 can be deleted, then step 3 notification could be simply renamed as "Northen Empire wants to make peace" "They will pay us a daily tribute"
Yeah, unless there is an internal UI or internal code reason, just stating the faction and tribute amount they are offering should be enough.
 
Great stuff @mexxico, @Blood Gryphon,

I do not mind those additional pop-ups, but it should also work in a way described by @Spinozart1 .

This is how it worked in Warband, right? Where you could influence some lords to vote in your favor. Does your idea consider influencing the lords by just clicking/spending influence points on this very war/peace screen? Or would it require getting to the lord in person or sending a messenger to convince him/her? This would be a really major addition!
That would be absolutely amazing. I'd love sending companions en route with letters or finding a postman in a town/village. As a king, assigning a constable or member of your court to deliver messages. Im all for less screens and more RP/depth/diplomacy elements.

OT: I havent played since november, only started a new campaign couple of weeks ago. And while I am already at the point where one of the factions should've been steamrolling, everything is in balance! I dont feel like I've picked a winning/losing faction but that the success of my faction depends on my influence in the game.
I havent played after the snowball balancing and it is great. I'm having such a different gameplay experience then what I left it with over half a year ago. Thanks!
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Anything @Blood Gryphon suggests is good and this is solid gold all-around. There might be some strange offers because the diplomacy AI sometimes has temporary insanity but since the player can turn it down that's automatic buffer against it being a negative.

The secondary design for vassals looks good as well.

Yeah, unless there is an internal UI or internal code reason, just stating the faction and tribute amount they are offering should be enough.
Thanks, that's great then :party:
 
Top Bottom