Information about developments at snowballing problem

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Apocal

Master Knight
OK OK everybody shut up for a second:
No speed bonus for Khuzaits, instead give them a bonus to mounted archer accuracy (or damage, whichever is easier to implement, and it would come to basically the same thing.
You seriously came in here after the problem was identified and fixed, then led with this? C'mon, man.
Not allowed to change faction bonuses? What that was the sole cause of the Khuzaits snowballing? What kind of clowns are running this operation?
I actually tested disabling that bonus and the Khuzaits still snowballed eventually. It wasn't the sole cause or even the main one. The biggest cause was the general (and faction-agnostic) Cavalry bonus + Khuzaits having three times the mounted units as their first opponents. The Khuzait bonus was (in AI parties) generally around +0.1 but their Cavalry bonus would be around 1.0 - 1.5. Obviously one of these numbers is much bigger than the other.

You can actually do goofy stuff like making every unit in some faction's troop tree mounted and they'll start snowballing too. Even if it is Aserai with no speed bonuses whatsoever. That's why the dev responsible is trying to crank the number of mounted units higher in other factions; otherwise they'll never be competitive.
But it should be accuracy if possible. Why? Because the Mongols were fckn great at shooting from horseback, obviously. That was their whole thing, what made them different from other culture's armies back in the day. Like. Why do I even have to say this.
Mounted archery didn't begin with the Mongols. They weren't even remotely unique in their composition and general tactics.
 
You seriously came in here after the problem was identified and fixed, then led with this? C'mon, man.

I actually tested disabling that bonus and the Khuzaits still snowballed eventually. It wasn't the sole cause or even the main one. The biggest cause was the general (and faction-agnostic) Cavalry bonus + Khuzaits having three times the mounted units as their first opponents. The Khuzait bonus was (in AI parties) generally around +0.1 but their Cavalry bonus would be around 1.0 - 1.5. Obviously one of these numbers is much bigger than the other.

You can actually do goofy stuff like making every unit in some faction's troop tree mounted and they'll start snowballing too. Even if it is Aserai with no speed bonuses whatsoever. That's why the dev responsible is trying to crank the number of mounted units higher in other factions; otherwise they'll never be competitive.

Mounted archery didn't begin with the Mongols. They weren't even remotely unique in their composition and general tactics.
I like how polite and constructive your criticisms were! Great job!
 
@Blood Gryphon

Have you experienced any armies being stuck in a loop in your tests? It is happening in one of my games now: An Army is stuck in a loop besieging a castle, starving, going to get food, coming back and doing it all over again. - I only noticed because it was my castle they were attacking. They have done it about 5-6 times so far.

Currently they have 800 troops but refuse to engage with my garrison (Which only has 120 troops) - It should be an easy win. I believe that they may be miscalculating the amount of food they need to complete the siege. (OR - other lords are joining the army before the siege is ready and are taking away whatever food they do have). I'm not entirely sure.

I have sent through a save game to @mexxico so he can observe/ check what is happening. It's definitely not intended behaviour.

(This is in 1.5.8. No mods, no cheats etc.)
 

mexxico

Developer
@Schlarkenstein thanks for detailed explanation at your mail and save file. I examined it and it seems this loop happen because new additions at visit settlement scores. Now parties with high wounded troop ratio (> %5/10 +) prefer visiting nearby settlement more compared to older versions. During siege wounded ratio of attacker army slowly increase and at some point they prefer visiting Makeb to heal them. However this is not intended. I will make needed tweaks tomorrow and send them with next hotfix.

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Apocal

Master Knight
However this is not intended. I will make needed tweaks tomorrow and send them with next hotfix.
Did this get put into the hotfix? The hotfix notes don't mention it.

Hotfix (04/03/21)

Singleplayer​

Crashes
  • Fixed a crash that occurred when a value that was higher than is allowed was pasted in integer input fields.
  • Fixed a crash that occurred when capturing the last settlement of a kingdom that was a target in the conspiracy phase of the main storyline.
Fixes
  • Fixed a DLSS related issue with the resolution scale causing a dark screen.
  • Fixed a DLSS related issue with medium shading quality causing corrupted images.
  • Fixed an issue with some settlements being unselectable due to the horizontal layout in the 'Gift Settlement' menu.
  • Fixed an issue that made some notables disappear when loading save files.
  • Fixed an issue with thumbnails failing to load.
  • Fixed an issue that caused conversation tag weights (that affect dialogue variation) to be set improperly.
Changes
  • Minor improvement to opening times for Clan, Character, Inventory and Party screens.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
I think not. I am pretty curious about the snowballing score after this fix. I hope this bug is not the main responsible for really good snowballing scores we have now. Fingers crossed 🤞.
 

mexxico

Developer
Did this get put into the hotfix? The hotfix notes don't mention it.
No it was not included. I sent fix but it is not included. Maybe they include it at next one. I have no controle over what to include at patches.

@Dabos37 probably it will not effect scores. If it was big enough to effect scores lots of players mention this bug earlier.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
The AI is actually pretty efficient at managing their garrisons. Castles' clan members will stop by to deposit troops (or withdraw them if they are in need) fairly regularly based on a calculated "ideal" garrison size. Any member of the kingdom can also stop by and donate troops if the garrison is too low (doesn't apply for the players fiefs).
Hey just wanted to ask about the calculated "ideal" garrison size. I have experienced (unfortunately no proof) that my kingdoms vassals will have a much smaller limit (~50) than my enemies when holding the same fief (~100). Is this perhaps just a coincidence of clan tier difference or is the garrison size based solely on the condition of the fief?
 

mexxico

Developer
Hey just wanted to ask about the calculated "ideal" garrison size. I have experienced (unfortunately no proof) that my kingdoms vassals will have a much smaller limit (~50) than my enemies when holding the same fief (~100). Is this perhaps just a coincidence of clan tier difference or is the garrison size based solely on the condition of the fief?
Ideal garrison size is calculated from prosperity of settlement & financial situation of clan leader.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Ideal garrison size is calculated from prosperity of settlement & financial situation of clan leader.
Thanks!

Just curious does the kingdom wallet still exist for player created kingdoms (excluding the player of course)?

Also am I wrong in thinking the only way to check a clans wealth is to trade with the clan leader? I feel like we need an easier way to know a clans wealth.
 

mexxico

Developer
Thanks!

Just curious does the kingdom wallet still exist for player created kingdoms (excluding the player of course)?

Also am I wrong in thinking the only way to check a clans wealth is to trade with the clan leader? I feel like we need an easier way to know a clans wealth.

Yes. I think also same. It can be good seeing if a clan is rich or normal or poor from encylopedia at least. Even there are 5 different word very rich (540K+ gold), rich (180K-540K gold), normal (60K-180K), poor (20K-60K), very poor (less than 20K) this will be enough.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Yes. I think also same. It can be good seeing if a clan is rich or normal or poor from encylopedia at least. Even there are 5 different word very rich (540K+ gold), rich (180K-540K gold), normal (60K-180K), poor (20K-60K), very poor (less than 20K) this will be enough.
That would be super nice, correct me if im wrong but doesn't a clans wealth also have an impact on recruiting them or is it simply fiefs?

If wealth is a factor it would go a long way to help the player understand why recruiting someone costs what they do. Having knowledge of someone's fiefs is already super helpful when trying to decide who to recruit.
 

mexxico

Developer
That would be super nice, correct me if im wrong but doesn't a clans wealth also have an impact on recruiting them or is it simply fiefs?

If wealth is a factor it would go a long way to help the player understand why recruiting someone costs what they do. Having knowledge of someone's fiefs is already super helpful when trying to decide who to recruit.

Yes wealth is also so important factor while determining recruitment cost of a clan. If a clan is rich and if they have fiefs they want 1M+ for changing faction. So wealth is important there also. I will suggest showing clan wealth at encylopedia.
 

ImperialDane

Regular
Yes wealth is also so important factor while determining recruitment cost of a clan. If a clan is rich and if they have fiefs they want 1M+ for changing faction. So wealth is important there also. I will suggest showing clan wealth at encylopedia.
That would be very handy, been having suspicions of it in my current run. But nice to see it confirmed.

As a quick sidenote.. But does the AI actually buy the smaller individual mercenaries like Watchmen and such.. or does it pick them all up raiding Caravans ? Since i keep thinking about the current Force Composition of Imperial parties/Armies.. And well. They keep having major deficiencies in cavalry compared to other factions. Mostly due to the classic noble cavalry issues but also the fact that the only non noble cavalry option they have is the T5 Buccellarii.

So maybe a higher reliance on Merc. Cav. Could slightly alleviate things there. If that isn't already in place..

Just a thought anyways. Mostly from fighting so many Imperial Parties and Armies (And with them) and the lack of cavalry is really starting to stand out during fights.
 

twgarbcomp

Recruit
Yes wealth is also so important factor while determining recruitment cost of a clan. If a clan is rich and if they have fiefs they want 1M+ for changing faction. So wealth is important there also. I will suggest showing clan wealth at encylopedia.
When will clans want to join us or other factions? Never?
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Yes wealth is also so important factor while determining recruitment cost of a clan. If a clan is rich and if they have fiefs they want 1M+ for changing faction. So wealth is important there also. I will suggest showing clan wealth at encylopedia.
Thanks mex!

When will clans want to join us or other factions? Never?
They will defect to other clans if they are very poor. Due to recent changes it is rare for a clan to get poor now.

For player kingdoms other clans have never offered to join, but you can convince them to join. I do really think that they should come to the player and offer themselves like they have in previous titles (I know it happened in VC not sure about vanilla WB).
 
Can someone explain to me how kingdoms decide who to declare war on? In all of my recent campaigns there are rarely any wars that aren't against the kingdom I'm part of. My kingdom is usually the most powerful, I know that has something to do with it but other powerful kingdoms avoid war with much more vulnerable neighbouring factions rather than taking advantage, so they don't grow to rival my factions power. If I use console commands to instigate wars they make peace straight way. Is it that they actually prefer to declare war on the kingdom the player is a member of? This is with the main quests disabled.
 

twgarbcomp

Recruit
Can someone explain to me how kingdoms decide who to declare war on? In all of my recent campaigns there are rarely any wars that aren't against the kingdom I'm part of. My kingdom is usually the most powerful, I know that has something to do with it but other powerful kingdoms avoid war with much more vulnerable neighbouring factions rather than taking advantage, so they don't grow to rival my factions power. If I use console commands to instigate wars they make peace straight way. Is it that they actually prefer to declare war on the kingdom the player is a member of? This is with the main quests disabled.
That happening in WARBAND to ,If you join a kingdom He being OP No one can defeat.( or so many different things) Fix these Bugs .
 
That happening in WARBAND to ,If you join a kingdom He being OP No one can defeat.( or so many different things) Fix these Bugs .
That's not really what I meant. The player joining a kingdom does make it far stronger since we're just better than the AI but when you capture a few settlements every other faction drops everything to declare war on you over and over. In my current campaign I'm in the Southern Empire and have taken most of the Western Empire and now my faction is being declared war upon by every other kingdom cyclically and they will only very rarely start wars between one another.
 
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