Information about developments at snowballing problem

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It wouldn't. Monchug is one of the younger rulers. By time he dies, the Khuzait parties and armies aren't actually any faster than other factions, because they have so many non-Khuzaits troops and parties. Instead, grind everyone else because they have more troops, more influence to continuously generate new armies, more parties, more settlements, etc.

Like, it isn't unusual to see Khuzait faction armies being like 2.1 move speed in 1110 because the army has like 2,700 dudes in it. It still works though, because it can siege or raid wherever without anyone interfering.

It is not just about the army speed itself. It's also about the individual party speeds when they gather the army. I watched many times Khuzait armies moving to attack position with few parties in and the 70-80% of the remaining parties joined them very close to final destination. There were also cases when non army parties with high speed joined the battle just because they were near and could make it due to their high party speed. Lets say the 70% of core Khuzait army is average speed. It's enough if few parties with 150 - 250 (usually 3-4 parties in total of 500-800) are moving above the average speed and they can support the core army anytime when it's outnumbered.

Regarding dominant faction power... I intentionally tested this when I helped Vlandia faction to reach 25k vs Khuzait 16k power. Vlandia had more fiefs, more clans, enough time to train higher level troops in peacetime. Yet still when I gave free run to Vlandia vs Khuzaits, Khuzaits were able to gather always bigger armies later in the war and eventually increased their power above Vlandia to 20k vs 14k. I intentionally watched the battles and the army gathering to understand how is this possible (joined even Khuzaits by cheat console to observe when the army is created and how the parties move). Their armies are basically always gathered with higher numbers as the opponents army and I am convinced it's because of their speed. I can be wrong but that is my perception.
 
Have you ever considered that, like Warband, the top cavalry of Khuzait is only Tier 4. The top infantry is Tier 3.

Their Tier 2 is cavalry, can be powerful, and pays the price.

In my mod, the Battania cavalry is Tier 3. Sturgia archer is Tier 4. Empire rider archer is Tier 4.
I imitated Warband to make different arms of different cultures.

If I read the Code right(edit):

public static int GetCharacterTier(CharacterObject character)
{
if (character.IsHero)
{
return 0;
}
return Math.Min(Math.Max(MathF.Ceiling(((float)character.Level - 5f) / 5f), 0), 7);
}

khans guard lvl=31 with this Math arround it, it comes to tier 6 (like all noble lines)
Heavy Horse Archer lvl=26 = tier 5
Legionary lvl=26 = tier 5


so the tiers goes into this calculation(Field battle) for Simulation:


private static float DefaultTroopPower(CharacterObject troop)
{
int num = troop.IsHero ? (troop.HeroObject.Level / 4 + 1) : troop.Tier;
return (float)((2 + num) * (10 + num)) * 0.02f * (troop.IsHero ? 1.5f : (troop.IsMounted ? 1.2f : 1f));
}



I don´t understand your point regarding the tiers, since the Math is for all factions the same, because the level (or level steps) of all troops are the same.
 
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Here is some video about how insanely effective are the Khuzaits in building/using armies...


Edit: Actually I just replayed several save points from this late game (36 years) campaign (original 1.5.5) and with the new version 1.5.6 it looks very promissing. So lets wait for the next hotfix (mentioned by mexxico) before any further discussion. For me it looks already very good atm :smile:
 
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I don´t understand your point regarding the tiers, since the Math is for all factions the same, because the level (or level steps) of all troops are the same.

He's referring to capping tiers for certain troop types, in certain factions. For example, horse archers only going up to tier 4, or one faction having tier 6 common infantry. That was how it was done in Warband.

It is not just about the army speed itself. It's also about the individual party speeds when they gather the army.

The typical bonus speed is less than 0.1 in the late game. Seriously.
 
Well one thing i can't help but notice looking through a bunch of these 10 and 20 year reports is that the North Empire and South Empire crumble quite consistently which is also my own experience in the few playthroughs i have. And considering those two factions border Khuzait and the North Empire the Battanians who also appear to be a bit of a snowball problem.

I can't help but wonder if the issue isn't not just one of the Khuzait having some advantages due to Cavalry. But also the South and North Empires having some structural issues that make them much more easily pushed around since they can't offer up great resistance for whatever reasons. It might be the Empires more structural lack of cavalry which makes it harder for them to move around on top of reacting to Cavalry armies, though i think the Geography of the places aren't helping. A lot of the North Empires territory for example is a real bastard to move around in i find and i can only imagine the North Empire struggles to defend it with a mostly infantry based force as well.

So while toning down the Khuzaits is definitely a way to go. I do think looking into some way of buffing the North and South Empires will also prove to be a wise plan to further reduce snowballing. Because i'd wager if those two were less likely to just fall apart in the face of the Khuzaits, i think we'd see them snowballing less in general.
 
Khuzaits are not that OP in all the runs I have been making, so what mentioned @mexxico about cavalry ratios for all kingdoms will be probably enough to put Khuzaits into a strong and still slightly OP state but not broken anymore kingdom.

What I am really disliking about 1.5.6 is the amount of war declarations and especially how much short wars are now. Hopefully we will get similar or even better 1.5.5 numbers with the hotfix (please do not make wars shorter than in 1.5.5).
 
It might be the Empires more structural lack of cavalry which makes it harder for them to move around on top of reacting to Cavalry armies

It is that and the NE having Amprela as both a major town and the only holding of a fairly powerful clan. The Khuzaits would take it early and the clan would leave the NE shortly thereafter, hitting them with a double-whammy and starting the snowball.
 
Also, I'd like to suggest that instead of the empire factions all starting at war with a neighboring non empire faction, they all start at war with each other instead and have the khuzaits start fighting someone else and see if that perhaps changes anything.

At the least one empire faction reigning supreme over the two others would offend me less XD
 
What I am really disliking about 1.5.6 is the amount of war declarations and especially how much short wars are now. Hopefully we will get similar or even better 1.5.5 numbers with the hotfix (please do not make wars shorter than in 1.5.5).
I agree that wars are way too short and too frequent, I would much rather see fewer but longer drawn out wars that can take multiple years to resolve.
 
I agree that wars are way too short and too frequent, I would much rather see fewer but longer drawn out wars that can take multiple years to resolve.

I finished works on this but we will send these changes with 1.5.7 instead of hotfix because it seems 1.5.7 will sent a bit earlier compared to our regular patch releasing schedule (which is once in a month in last patches) and even this is important problem it is not gamebreaking. I also added other developments we talk here (increasing cavalry ratio in parties of other factions (not Khuzait) a bit & reducing cavalry ratio effect on speed & AI not to choose distant targets much) These are all small adjustments, there will not be big changes but even small their effect is positive.
 
I finished works on this but we will send these changes with 1.5.7 instead of hotfix because it seems 1.5.7 will sent a bit earlier compared to our regular patch releasing schedule (which is once in a month in last patches) and even this is important problem it is not gamebreaking. I also added other developments we talk here (increasing cavalry ratio in parties of other factions (not Khuzait) a bit & reducing cavalry ratio effect on speed & AI not to choose distant targets much) These are all small adjustments, there will not be big changes but even small their effect is positive.
Cool
 
I finished works on this but we will send these changes with 1.5.7 instead of hotfix because it seems 1.5.7 will sent a bit earlier compared to our regular patch releasing schedule (which is once in a month in last patches) and even this is important problem it is not gamebreaking. I also added other developments we talk here (increasing cavalry ratio in parties of other factions (not Khuzait) a bit & reducing cavalry ratio effect on speed & AI not to choose distant targets much) These are all small adjustments, there will not be big changes but even small their effect is positive.

Thanks!

Can we expect similar numbers than in 1.5.5 related to war duration and amount of war declarations?
 
I finished works on this but we will send these changes with 1.5.7 instead of hotfix because it seems 1.5.7 will sent a bit earlier compared to our regular patch releasing schedule (which is once in a month in last patches) and even this is important problem it is not gamebreaking. I also added other developments we talk here (increasing cavalry ratio in parties of other factions (not Khuzait) a bit & reducing cavalry ratio effect on speed & AI not to choose distant targets much) These are all small adjustments, there will not be big changes but even small their effect is positive.

I am curious about the results of these changes, i personally don’t like the fact other factions get more cavalry, makes everything faction feel the same. A mayor part of the enjoyment of warband an as an example Rome total war And Warhammer total war is de difference in factions and army builds. Still excited about the updates though!
 
I like to add some suggestions to my previous post:
i feel that the consensus of OP ness of the Khuzait comes from their cultural speed bonus + extra speed bonus based on having more cavalry and the bonus to cavalry in autocalc simulations.
They can recruit quicker, avoid bad confrontations and form armies quicker.
Instead of nerving their speed or adding more cavalry to the other factions. Seek a solution in other area's. Their speed and army build makes them unique. The major problem is that the khuzait are generally taking over large portions of the map, so every battle in the endgame is against horse archers.

options (not all in once :smile: ):
-Reduce the amounts of khuzait recruits
-Take away the bonus to cavalry from all battlefields not labeled as open field, steppe or dessert.
-Give a cavalry penalty to armies in a siege battle.
-Nerf their infantry. they don't have to be on the same level as other factions
-Give conquered settlements a higher cultural aversion against the khuzait. This would hopefully keep them more contained to the steppes.
 
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