There's a reason no one defends it.
I use to defend the game and developers a lot through the Beta and the start of Early access, 9 months later and I've seen minimal stuff worth defending.
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- Thread starter mexxico
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I use to defend the game and developers a lot through the Beta and the start of Early access, 9 months later and I've seen minimal stuff worth defending.
Beyond moronic.
Nawari
Veteran
or pathological stalkers who come to harass people on social networks ...
So just to clear this up, because I think allowing the Khuzaits to destroy the AI in every campaign is awful for the game, you've claimed we can't criticize the game because there's bigger issues in life, and now are randomly claiming we're stalkers harassing people.
Incredible bull****.
Anyway, I had the same experience as you with the Khuzait bonus disabled -- they still stomped the NE flat and got their snowball rolling in every single test I did. It is a really small bonus at this point (like +0.1 for the AI, usually) so it shouldn't matter that much. It really shouldn't matter now that the Scouting perks are functional; any two of them overrides the effect of the (typical) Khuzait bonus.
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Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Anyway, I had the same experience as you with the Khuzait bonus disabled -- they still stomped the NE flat and got their snowball rolling in every single test I did. It is a really small bonus at this point (like +0.1 for the AI, usually) so it shouldn't matter that much. It really shouldn't matter now that the Scouting perks are functional; any two of them overrides the effect of the (typical) Khuzait bonus.
Many thanks!
Interesting info about scouting perks and Khuzait bonus.
Actually you should just delete codes in red rectangle to remove Khuzait OP Speed Bonus.
If you make other values 0 you totally remove all speed bonus of cavalry units. Then 100 footmen party speed become equal with 100 horsemen party.
Actually currently speed bonus for cavalry units is also huge. It is 60% means X footmen party speed is 1.6x of X horsemen party speed. If party is Khuzait party then 1.6x become 1.66x. Even it seems a small advantage this speed thing have huge impact at game. Powerfull Khuzait parties can catch enemy parties or weak Khuzait parties can run away from powerfull enemy parties. Maybe we should also reduce this 60% to something like 40%.
If you totally want to remove all speed bonus of cavalry troops you can do what @Apocal says otherwise if you want to just close Khuzait Bonus you should remove part in red rectangle.
If average Khuzait party consist of 50% cav units and others consist of 20% cav units then average Khuzait party speed become 1.33x vs 1.12x (1 + 0.66 x 0.5 vs 1 + 0.60 x 0.2)
If you make other values 0 you totally remove all speed bonus of cavalry units. Then 100 footmen party speed become equal with 100 horsemen party.
Actually currently speed bonus for cavalry units is also huge. It is 60% means X footmen party speed is 1.6x of X horsemen party speed. If party is Khuzait party then 1.6x become 1.66x. Even it seems a small advantage this speed thing have huge impact at game. Powerfull Khuzait parties can catch enemy parties or weak Khuzait parties can run away from powerfull enemy parties. Maybe we should also reduce this 60% to something like 40%.
If you totally want to remove all speed bonus of cavalry troops you can do what @Apocal says otherwise if you want to just close Khuzait Bonus you should remove part in red rectangle.
If average Khuzait party consist of 50% cav units and others consist of 20% cav units then average Khuzait party speed become 1.33x vs 1.12x (1 + 0.66 x 0.5 vs 1 + 0.60 x 0.2)
D0c1
Knight at Arms
why not make having horses for every soldier in the party equal to the cavalry bonus?Actually you should just delete codes in red rectangle to remove Khuzait OP Speed Bonus.
If you make other values 0 you totally remove all speed bonus of cavalry units. Then 100 footmen party speed become equal with 100 horsemen party.
Actually currently speed bonus for cavalry units is also huge. It is 60% means X footmen party speed is 1.6x of X horsemen party speed. If party is Khuzait party then 1.6x become 1.66x. Even it seems a small advantage this speed thing have huge impact at game. Powerfull Khuzait parties can catch enemy parties or weak Khuzait parties can run away from powerfull enemy parties. Maybe we should also reduce this 60% to something like 40%.
If you totally want to remove all speed bonus of cavalry troops you can do what @Apocal says otherwise if you want to just close Khuzait Bonus you should remove part in red rectangle.
If average Khuzait party consist of 50% cav units and others consist of 20% cav units then average Khuzait party speed become 1.33x vs 1.12x (1 + 0.66 x 0.5 vs 1 + 0.60 x 0.2)
that way, other factions might have a chance at catching khuzait parties when you code them to buy and keep horses and increase horse supply overall of course.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Actually you should just delete codes in red rectangle to remove Khuzait OP Speed Bonus.
If you make other values 0 you totally remove all speed bonus of cavalry units. Then 100 footmen party speed become equal with 100 horsemen party.
Actually currently speed bonus for cavalry units is also huge. It is 60% means X footmen party speed is 1.6x of X horsemen party speed. If party is Khuzait party then 1.6x become 1.66x. Even it seems a small advantage this speed thing have huge impact at game. Powerfull Khuzait parties can catch enemy parties or weak Khuzait parties can run away from powerfull enemy parties. Maybe we should also reduce this 60% to something like 40%.
If you totally want to remove all speed bonus of cavalry troops you can do what @Apocal says otherwise if you want to just close Khuzait Bonus you should remove part in red rectangle.
If average Khuzait party consist of 50% cav units and others consist of 20% cav units then average Khuzait party speed become 1.33x vs 1.12x (1 + 0.66 x 0.5 vs 1 + 0.60 x 0.2)
Thanks Mexxico. I am disabling the Khuzaits bonus using a different way (Apocal told me how to do it in this way if I remember correctly):
// Token: 0x06000BFD RID: 3069 RVA: 0x00050280 File Offset: 0x0004E480
private void SetCulturalFeats()
{
this.ResetCulturalFeats();
if (this.Culture != null)
{
if (this.Culture.StringId == "battania")
{
this._characterFeats.SetPropertyValue(DefaultFeats.Cultural.BattanianForestAgility, 1);
return;
}
if (this.Culture.StringId == "khuzait")
{
this._characterFeats.SetPropertyValue(DefaultFeats.Cultural.KhuzaitCavalryAgility, 1); <------ 0 instead of 1 here.
return;
(it looks like this change works fine, I have created a Khuzait character and checked that I lost the speed bonus after modifying this)
The thing is that even when this bonus could be making snowballing worse, I have tested +5 campaigns and Khuzaits are snowballing everything without this bonus (I also removed cavalry strength bonus in simulated battles). Reducing the cavalry bonus speed for everyone also looks like a good idea, not sure if it will be enough to make Khuzaits less overpowered but any change to reduce this is pretty much welcome.
As far I have seen, there are many reasons because Khuzatis are overperforming and I have mentioned them in this post:
To me it is not about weak or strong factions made on purpose. What I am seeing is that the map design is what actually making some factions too strong and some other weak. Just compare the Khuzait map with NE map:
Khuzait:
NE:
It is pretty clear why Khuzaits are able to recruit armies much faster than other factions. Just look how close fiefs are to each other and how easy to access and at the same time protected their fiefs are. Now check NE map, the best area for recruiting troops is Amprela, Syratos castle and Episona Castle, but these villages get constantly raided for Khuzaits pretty early and NE lose all its recruiting power pretty fast.
Plus the Khuzaits army composition is simply better, even removing cavalry bonus in simulated battles and Khuzaits cultural bonus, Khuzait lords are simply much faster and Khuzait map is pretty easy to defend and reirforcements can arrive pretty fast. Raiding the Khuzaits villages is almost an impossible task for NE lords because Khuzaits parties are just much faster and able to protect their villages pretty effectively.
So yes, some factions feel much stronger but I think that it was not a deliberated devs decision, but they understimated the potential of a good map position. Battania also has a great map and fiefs are pretty pretty close but I just have to change some few things to see Battania getting wrecked because they are pretty much surrounded by everyone, while Khuzaits are placed in a corner, have pretty close fiefs to each other, and have speed advantage... No much to do to fix this without making drastic changes IMO.
Anyway, I am going to wait until getting the beta 1.5.6 and run some new tests with this version which will improve the current situation for sure. Thank you very much for taking time to explain us how to remove the cavalry units speed bonus.
Anushtegin
Sergeant
i like this idea.
Thank you for the test！
Here is also a phenomenon in the game. When AI lords upgrade their soldiers, they choose a purely random upgrade direction. If there is a branch route, the two probabilities are 50% and 50% respectively.
So khuzait always has close to 50% of the cavalry.
Other countries have 25%, or 12.5%, of cavalry.
Vlandia has nearly 50% of the crossbows.
Do you think changing the probability of these upgrade branches can improve the balance？
Extremely happy!
By the way, It's just an idea: my ideal soldiers (troops) will be like Warband ---
Soldiers have different grades. The speed of upgrading and the highest grade all reflect the differences. For example, someone upgrade fast but when they full level that their only have 4 Teir as full level, not 5Teir ; or they are relatively stronger when the Tier is low and weaker when the Tier is high.
Warband:
In some cultures, soldiers are only at level 23 as the highest level, but they upgrade quickly (Khugit)
In some cultures, the highest branch of soldiers (troops) can reach level 28 (Swadia), indicating the strength of this branch of soldiers (troops)
In some cultures, low-level soldiers are more advanced than low-level soldiers in other countries, with level 6 (Nord), but when they reach the highest level, there is no level difference.
In today's Bannerlord, the wages of cavalry and infantry are the same, and all soldiers are level 6, level 11, level 16 and level 21... The difference is small.
There are some simple ideas.
For Khuzait, infantry can only have Tier 4 or Tier 3 as their highest Tier, because their cavalry is powerful.
(In Warband, Khugit have only low-level cavalry and no infantry , so we can approval that Khugit have all cavalry. But for speed, it's a problem, and there are differences for Warband and Bannerlord.)
Sturgia's Archer, It can only be Tier 4, because they have strong infantry. ( Like Nord)
I tried to apply some ideas in my modified mod, and other players responded well.
I will continue to try to modify, test, if there is a clear, good program, I will share with you all.
@mexxico 10 years into a snowball test, have 20 years is a bit. So far looks like your changes have improved the situation! Food changes for armies seems to have massively helped Sturgia actually compete or maybe it was something else you did, only 1 test tho so we will see.
Also after 10 years 3 rebel clans have become legit and joined kingdoms
Also after 10 years 3 rebel clans have become legit and joined kingdoms
| Northern | Test 1 10 years | Test 1 20 years | Test 1 30 years |
| Aserai | 20 | 25 | 31 |
| Battania | 28 | 53 | 56 |
| Khuzait | 46 | 50 | 51 |
| Northern | 6 | 0 | 0 |
| Southern | 8 | 10 | 7 |
| Western | 18 | 8 | 7 |
| Sturgia | 27 | 20 | 13 |
| Vlandia | 20 | 3 | 8 |
| Snowball score | 39 | 92 | 102 |
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Thank you for your test @Blood Gryphon
Here is my 32 year latest test results from 1.5.6 :
Here is my 32 year latest test results from 1.5.6 :
| Kingdom | 10 years | 20 years |
| Aserai | 27 | 26 |
| Battania | 19 | 0 |
| Khuzait | 34 | 43 |
| Northern | 10 | 9 |
| Southern | 7 | 0 |
| Western | 23 | 33 |
| Sturgia | 21 | 26 |
| Vlandia | 32 | 34 |
| Snowball score | 24 | 59 |
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![Andrei[beast]](/data/avatars/m/556/556652.jpg?1589629811){kind=avatar}
Damn, poor Aserais. Also, it's weird seeing Battania so low in that picture.Thank you for your test @Blood Gryphon
Here is my 32 year latest test results from 1.5.6 :
Kingdom 10 years 20 years Aserai 27 26 Battania 19 0 Khuzait 34 43 Northern 10 9 Southern 7 0 Western 23 33 Sturgia 21 26 Vlandia 32 34 Snowball score 24 59
Thanks for the info anyway.
And here is data for cavalry ratios for each kingdom :
I will make some work to make these averages closer. In gray data first number is all cav troops in that kingdom and second data is all foot troops in that kingdom.
In pink data first number is cav ratio and second number is total man count.
Currently Khuzait average cav ratio is 31% while others are all between 9-16%. If we can make Khuzaits 25% and average of others 15% game will be probably more balanced. As secondary solution we can reduce cav ratio's effect on speed to 40% or 50% from 60% (current).
@Andrei[beast] did you confused kingdoms, Aserai was at average in that run.
I will make some work to make these averages closer. In gray data first number is all cav troops in that kingdom and second data is all foot troops in that kingdom.
In pink data first number is cav ratio and second number is total man count.
Currently Khuzait average cav ratio is 31% while others are all between 9-16%. If we can make Khuzaits 25% and average of others 15% game will be probably more balanced. As secondary solution we can reduce cav ratio's effect on speed to 40% or 50% from 60% (current).
@Andrei[beast] did you confused kingdoms, Aserai was at average in that run.
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