Info Thread

[Cèsar de Quart]

Yes, yes, I understood it right away what he means under no small part. Also, I know what Romania was, I am not some average low level peasant, speaking of which, in Dušan's letters to Serbs and all Western countries, he calls himself Emperor of Serbs and Romania. However, when he writes a letter in Greek (to the Byzantines), he calls himself Tsar of Serbs and Romanians It seems that, as long as Constantinople was standing, no person could have been called King of Romania, except for Byzantine Emperor. You can call yourself King of Romanians, because, there are a lot of Greeks (Romanians) living in your country, but not King of Romania.

They were Romans, not Romanians. There's a big difference. And I think the name "Romanian" is a XVIIIth Century thing, a way to call this "new nation" fromed out of Vlachs and other peoples (which is highly discussed and unclear, but I bet on artificial national creation).

That's why, if anything, he would be "King of Vlachs", which was for some time a title held by Bulgarian tsars, if I'm not mistaken.


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I have updated with new signatures for the rest of existing factions.

 

[DrevniDabar]

They were Romans, not Romanians. There's a big difference. And I think the name "Romanian" is a XVIIIth Century thing, a way to call this "new nation" fromed out of Vlachs and other peoples (which is highly discussed and unclear, but I bet on artificial national creation).
That's why, if anything, he would be "King of Vlachs", which was for some time a title held by Bulgarian tsars, if I'm not mistaken.
I have updated with new signatures for the rest of existing factions.

Yes, I have purposely said Romania and Romanians, and I was thinking about the Byzantines when saying that.

Here is why:
In every medieval chronicle or scripture, we (Serbs) called them Romeians, Romanians or Greeks but never Romans.
Romans, on the other hand, never ever, not once, called us Serbs, but Tribalians instead.

Weird stuff, that...

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Here is why:
In every medieval chronicle or scripture, we (Serbs) called them Romeians, Romanians or Greeks but never Romans.

Show me those chronicles, because I don't really believe it. As far as I know, they are always called Rhomaioi, which means Romans, not Romanians.

As for Latin sources, in early sources they are Romani (Romans) or Graeci (Greeks). Romanians might be a way to refer to the inhabitants of Rhomania, but not the usual way to speak of them. This usual way was, from the XIIth Century ownwards, Greeks in the West and Romans in the East.

 

[Revan Shan]

I supose you mean the other way around. Greeks in the East and Romans in the West.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

I supose you mean the other way around. Greeks in the East and Romans in the West.

No, I meant it.

The Romans were called Greeks by the Latins / Franks in the West. For them, the Roman Empire was, obviously, in Rome, and was led by the Holy Roman Emperor. For the Easterners, however, the inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire were Romans, and since the ERE never fell or had a moment of disappearance until 1204, the "Greeks" were, naturally, Romans.

 

[Revan Shan]

My god. What a mess.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

My god. What a mess.

Not really, it's the Westerner's fault for their stubborness. The Roman Empire didn't fall until 1453, but they were convinced that, at first, the German HREmperor was the successor of the Western Emperor, and later on they started to call the Byzantine Emperor in ways like "Rex Graecorum" or "Imperator Graecorum". Of course, this pissed off the Byzies a lot.

Charlemagne's emissaries to Constantinople were thrown down to prison when they said "We salute you, Imperator Romanorum, in the name of Charles, Imperator Romanorum...". And later Byzantine Emperors had to swallow their pride when they went to the West looking for aid and they were announced as "King of the Greeks"...

I find it amusing.

 

[Revan Shan]

We salute you, Imperator Romanorum, in the name of Charles, Imperator Romanorum

It's like saluting themselves realy... 

 

[Lord Rust]

There's a really good book on this called (quite aptly) The fall of constantinople which I heartily recommend.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

There's a really good book on this called (quite aptly) The fall of constantinople which I heartily recommend.

Sir Steven Runciman's book, isn't it? Really enjoyable.

 

[Lord Rust]

There's a really good book on this called (quite aptly) The fall of constantinople which I heartily recommend.

Sir Steven Runciman's book, isn't it? Really enjoyable.

Quite so.

 

[Cruger]

Updated the first post with all the new factions (and many new signatures). Third post will be updated with two new features very soon.

 

[DrevniDabar]

Show me those chronicles, because I don't really believe it. As far as I know, they are always called Rhomaioi, which means Romans, not Romanians.

As for Latin sources, in early sources they are Romani (Romans) or Graeci (Greeks). Romanians might be a way to refer to the inhabitants of Rhomania, but not the usual way to speak of them. This usual way was, from the XIIth Century ownwards, Greeks in the West and Romans in the East.

As I said, every single chronicle.
I cannot show those chronicles to you, because I doubt you know cyrillic writing.
We didn't called them Rhomaioi because we didn't write on Latin or Greek language, so Rhomaioi doesn't mean anything in Old Serbian/Church Slavonic.
We called them Romejci (Rhomeians) and Romanijci (Romanians) - ''jci'' roughly means ''ans''.

Why we called them these names? I know not. But as I said, they didn't call us with their our real name, and we didn't call them with their real name - everybody is happy.
The Romans even called us Dalmatians, long after we didn't have anything to do with Dalmatia, and Tribalians, even if Tribalians are supposed to be, so called ,,ancient inhabitants of Balkans'' - the source for that: every single chronicle.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Show me those chronicles, because I don't really believe it. As far as I know, they are always called Rhomaioi, which means Romans, not Romanians.

As for Latin sources, in early sources they are Romani (Romans) or Graeci (Greeks). Romanians might be a way to refer to the inhabitants of Rhomania, but not the usual way to speak of them. This usual way was, from the XIIth Century ownwards, Greeks in the West and Romans in the East.

As I said, every single chronicle.
I cannot show those chronicles to you, because I doubt you know cyrillic writing.
We didn't called them Rhomaioi because we didn't write on Latin or Greek language, so Rhomaioi doesn't mean anything in Old Serbian/Church Slavonic.
We called them Romejci (Rhomeians) and Romanijci (Romanians) - ''jci'' roughly means ''ans''.

Why we called them these names? I know not. But as I said, they didn't call us with their our real name, and we didn't call them with their real name - everybody is happy.
The Romans even called us Dalmatians, long after we didn't have anything to do with Dalmatia, and Tribalians, even if Tribalians are supposed to be, so called ,,ancient inhabitants of Balkans'' - the source for that: every single chronicle.

Now I know where does the name Romanian come from... but still, Romanian is a Slavic way to say Roman, and since we're speaking English, Roman is the name we should use.

 

[DrevniDabar]

since we're speaking English, Roman is the name we should use.

Aye! We shall!

 

[NikeBG]

Why we called them these names? I know not. But as I said, they didn't call us with their our real name, and we didn't call them with their real name - everybody is happy.

I'm pretty sure I've seen Byzantine chronicles using "Serboi" before, though I can't come with any specific example. Though, yes, the Byzantines in general rather liked using anachronistic names for people - f.e. we were often called "Scythians" at first (during the Bulgar period) and then "Moesians" later (in the Bulgarian period). They kinda used that "style" even for themselves sometimes: "Fall down you trees, you ominous mountains! Collapse you inacessible rocks, where the lion was afraid to go out against the deers! Oh, Sun, hide your gold-glittering chariot beneath the ground and tell the great spirit of the emperor: The Istros [Danube] took the wreath of Rome. Quickly grab your arms, for the Moesian arrows are stronger than the Ausonian spears.” Funny thing though - the Ausones actually lived in Southern Italy. Anyway, we ourselves called them both Romans (Romei) and Greeks.

Now I know where does the name Romanian come from... but still, Romanian is a Slavic way to say Roman, and since we're speaking English, Roman is the name we should use.

I'm not sure that's where "Romanian" exactly comes from. Because we didn't call the Vlachs like that - "Vlach" is the Slavic name for the Vlachs, while whenever we used "Roman", it was for the Byzantines themselves. On the other hand, almost all Vlach groups use some form of "Romane/Romani" as a self-given name for themselves. That's why f.e. Wallachia in its independent period was called "Tara Romaneasca", which eventually evolved to "Romania". Don't ask me why the Gypsies now call themselves "Roma" as well though...

 

[DrevniDabar]

I'm pretty sure I've seen Byzantine chronicles using "Serboi" before, though I can't come with any specific example. Though, yes, the Byzantines in general rather liked using anachronistic names for people - f.e. we were often called "Scythians" at first (during the Bulgar period) and then "Moesians" later (in the Bulgarian period). They kinda used that "style" even for themselves sometimes: "Fall down you trees, you ominous mountains! Collapse you inacessible rocks, where the lion was afraid to go out against the deers! Oh, Sun, hide your gold-glittering chariot beneath the ground and tell the great spirit of the emperor: The Istros [Danube] took the wreath of Rome. Quickly grab your arms, for the Moesian arrows are stronger than the Ausonian spears.” Funny thing though - the Ausones actually lived in Southern Italy. Anyway, we ourselves called them both Romans (Romei) and Greeks.

I only saw the word Serboi written by Pliny the Elder, a Roman historian in the first century.
Some say he was refering to Sarmatians, others that he was thinking of some old Serbian/Slavic ancestors or something...
But, before the year 1000, they were calling us Servi. Which means slaves. It was the nearest possible word they could find (bastards!), that reminds them of our real name, because, like 98% of people today, the couldn't pronounce our real name - SRBI.

Don't ask me why the Gypsies now call themselves "Roma" as well though...

The quick search of the net gave me the results on that matter - Gypsies were the true founders of Rome.  That is undoubtably the truth.

 

[NikeBG]

I only saw the word Serboi written by Pliny the Elder, a Roman historian in the first century...
But, before the year 1000, they were calling us Servi.

Ah, true, my mistake. "Servi" indeed. No worries about that though - they also called the "Sloveni" (i.e. Slavs) as "Sklavinoi" and we (Bulgarians) were "Vulgaroi". Quite a nasty bunch on their northern borders.

 

[pjester]

hey sorry if i'm a bit late but is there a server open yet with this mod?
cus i've downloaded the mod but can't find a server who plays it?

if my question is noobish, plz do forgive me.

grtz
pj

 

[erik_3e]

hey sorry if i'm a bit late but is there a server open yet with this mod?
cus i've downloaded the mod but can't find a server who plays it?

if my question is noobish, plz do forgive me.

grtz
pj

It is only for singelplayer right now but I think they are planing on multiplayer in the future.