Infantry units with long cape

[DanAngleland]

I wouldn't mind seeing a commander or high rank soldier wearing a cape into battle; it wouldn't look daft if there was just a few guys and it would make higher ranks more identifiable, but generally capes and cloaks should just be a civilian garment in my opinon. There would be combat scenarios that I can imagine it being cool to have a cloak in, but basically they boil down to ambushes where the character (NPC or player) is in civilian dress and hasn't had time to remove the cloak.

The civilian dress one would be most likely; you're trotting across Calradia on a cold or rainy day when you are waylaid by bandits, and you retain your cloak for lack of time and it could look cool to be fighting in it. Also bandits themselves might suit a cloak as a form of disguise. Though I wouldn't want to see more than a few in a small group of bandits and certainly not large bandit groups with hordes of cloaked men like some shabby KKK wannabees. It would look bad aesthetically (IMO) and wouldn't make sense because if you are in a large army, then pretending to be a normal traveller is futile and unnecessary. So it should just be for bandits in small groups, say 4-6 (this would probably be most applicable in towns when you get attacked late at night).

 

[Mad Vader]

Or commanders? At least the Roman ones did.

Again, not in combat. Here's a sculpture of a centurion holding a standard with his sword sheathed, and even then he's gathering up his cloak as if to put it away.

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I have also never seen archers depicted with capes even in overdesigned fantasy.

The legati wore them in combat (and supposedly some other troops).
Archers don't need to undress before combat for the reasons the melee types do, so why not keep the capes. Your disdain for hollywooding history is neither here nor there.

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[DanAngleland]

Archers don't need to undress before combat for the reasons the melee types do, so why not keep the capes. Your disdain for hollywooding history is neither here nor there.

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That isn't a cape or a cloak though, is it? It's either a put-on-over-the-head type garment or wrapped around his torso; either way it's not hanging from his shoulders and isn't loose. As for archers not having problems with capes and cloaks, I would think they certainly have the potential to get in the way either due to wind or body movement shifting them out of place. If nothing else your elbow would be likely to touch it some of the time when getting your next arrow or drawing the bow (surely a cloak wide enough to be drawn across your front will be sat on your arms as you lift them to draw?), which would be irritating. There's no reason to keep it on if you have time to take it off.

That said, I don't think the relief Jacob posted shows a man starting to put away his cloak, though I don't see any reason to believe it depicts a man ready to go into battle either. It looks rather long and if it is a centurion as Jacob says, he would have plenty of reason to take it off, as even if he doesn't have to squat or bend at anytime (thus making it a trip hazard), he is going to be in close proximity to other men with weapons and shields and belts for it to get caught on. It's going to get muddy and be a bother for no advantage.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

This is like the dual wielding argument.

Arguments for: it looks cool.

Arguments against: it doesn't look practical, it takes development time to get right considering it is more or less cosmetic, it is historically unimmersive.

The difference with capes is that cloth physics use up tons of CPU power.

 

[Lord Brutus]

Other argument against:  It's just plain stupid to consider.

 

[Silen]

This is like the dual wielding argument.

Arguments for: it looks cool.

Arguments against: it doesn't look practical, it takes development time to get right considering it is more or less cosmetic, it is historically unimmersive.

The difference with capes is that cloth physics use up tons of CPU power.

Cloth physics are already there, along with hair physics and all the rest. They use CPU power as well, and yet they're in the game, because they look good. Since cloth physics are in, all that is needed is a mesh for a long cape. I'm somewhat sure they already made one, even though they haven't shown it. I'm fairly certain we'll see some sort of long cape in the final product.

If not, as usual, mods will cover it.

 

[Kanabei]

Long capes for infantry: take this Idea and shove it up your ass along with dual wield, diving in armor, chariots and parkour (I really heard it somewhere).

 

[Varrak]

Cloth physics are already there, along with hair physics and all the rest. They use CPU power as well, and yet they're in the game, because they look good. Since cloth physics are, in all that is needed is a mesh for a long cape. I'm somewhat sure they already made one, even though they haven't shown it. I'm fairly certain we'll see some sort of long cape in the final product.

If not, as usual, mods will cover it.

You are right.

Also

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I am pretty sure they already added long capes in the game

 

[Silen]

Also

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I am pretty sure they already added long capes in the game

Thanks a lot, I missed that! I must say it looks quite good. 

Long capes for infantry: take this Idea and shove it up your ass along with dual wield, diving in armor, chariots and parkour (I really heard it somewhere).

I'm more for only noblemen and civilians wearing cloaks and capes, like in the picture above (even though there do seem to be some exceptions, for example if you look in the background there seems to be a soldier also wearing a long cape, unlike the rest of the common soldiers. Perhaps he's a companion?). You could've put that in a better way though. 

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Cloth physics are already there, ... all that is needed is a mesh for a long cape.

Cloth physics aren't just a single thing you can add once and never worry about again. There are dozens of different algortihms which all have different purposes. For example, a banner can probably ignore collision, meaning it can probably be done on the GPU with some clever programming, meaning it'll be fairly unintensive.

The difference between implementing non-glitchy physics for a short scarf-like piece of fabric and a long flowing cape is massive.

https://gfycat.com/IckyUnnaturalFluke

Every single vertex of a cape has to account for complex collision, the velocity of all adjoining vertices, gravity, wind and character animation, and all this has to be done 60 times per second. A long cape might have at least 200+ vertices. Comparatively the short cape in the video has a fraction of the vertices and seems to be ignoring collision to an extent, making it a lot less CPU intensive.

 

[Silen]

Cloth physics aren't just a single thing you can add once and never worry about again. There are dozens of different algortihms which all have different purposes. For example, a banner can probably ignore collision, meaning it can probably be done on the GPU with some clever programming, meaning it'll be fairly unintensive.

The difference between implementing non-glitchy physics for a short scarf-like piece of fabric and a long flowing cape is massive.

https://gfycat.com/IckyUnnaturalFluke

Every single vertex of a cape has to account for complex collision, the velocity of all adjoining vertices, gravity, wind and character animation, and all this has to be done 60 times per second. A long cape might have at least 200+ vertices. Comparatively the short cape in the video has a fraction of the vertices and seems to be ignoring collision to an extent, making it a lot less CPU intensive.

Hmhm, cannot argue with this, they sure do add more to the burden, however I'm still positive and I like to think the game will handle it well. I suppose we'll see once it comes out. ^^

 

[Lord Brutus]

The game could handle capes well, only if the cape is not moving fluidly.  If you can handle that then let capes be added but only in places where they are appropriate, not in combat.

 

[Orion]

Cloth physics are already there, along with hair physics and all the rest. They use CPU power as well, and yet they're in the game, because they look good. Since cloth physics are in, all that is needed is a mesh for a long cape. I'm somewhat sure they already made one, even though they haven't shown it. I'm fairly certain we'll see some sort of long cape in the final product.

If not, as usual, mods will cover it.

Other articles of clothing and hair are going to be in the game anyway. It's a lot less convenient to take off your hair before a fight (usually), and it's definitely harder to put back on. Plus, just about every civilian is going to be wearing something that could benefit aesthetically from cloth physics. They aren't optional, but capes are. I'm not against capes & cloaks that appear in towns and cities, or in non-battle scenes in general. I am very much against seeing them on soldiers in a battle.

 

[Balexander]

i would like to see them on some Lords

 

[Silen]

Other articles of clothing and hair are going to be in the game anyway. It's a lot less convenient to take off your hair before a fight (usually), and it's definitely harder to put back on. Plus, just about every civilian is going to be wearing something that could benefit aesthetically from cloth physics. They aren't optional, but capes are. I'm not against capes & cloaks that appear in towns and cities, or in non-battle scenes in general. I am very much against seeing them on soldiers in a battle.

I agree with this as well, however I wouldn't mind it at all to see some important figures on the battlefield wearing them, such as some noblemen, perhaps some companions, or obviously the player.

 

[e27]

Lords dress differently when in their castles than when in battle in warband... I think it would be neat to see a "lavish cape" in the same circumstances that you'd find the "Nobleman's outfit".

 

[Varrak]

If i am not wrong, the radius of the effects are pretty small. In horse archer Sergeant battle video, helmet hair/horse hair animations gets less complicated after 10-15 meters, and it fully dissapear after 15-20 meters. But you don't find this odd (at least i don't) since it makes sence that far away characters dont need to be animated with those physics since seen details get smaller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMeqj8WG0a8

1:59, that ally white horse coming towards him, it's hair wasn't exist until it gets into necessery radius to the character, in 2:03.

Btw Captain mode's game type written as "Sergeant Battle" in server screen

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[Mad Vader]

Someone should make a mod with all-caped troops, some of whom wear multiple capes. Free aneurysms for the cape-haters!

 

[DanAngleland]

Long capes for infantry: take this Idea and shove it up your ass along with dual wield, diving in armor, chariots and parkour (I really heard it somewhere).

Chariots would be fantastic, they would add a new dimension to the game. They could be multiplayer only for simplicity, or used for racing in a Calradian Circus Maximus. Of course they don't fit the time frame of the game and I don't have any expectation that they will be in the game...but they would be a cool addition and not an implausible part of some factions' armies (though in battle you would probably need them to spawn as infantry or regular cavalry on forested or hilly terrain).

I think it would be neat to see a "lavish cape" in the same circumstances that you'd find the "Nobleman's outfit".

You mean when you have a spare one in your inventory and think it'd look better on Lezalit than nomad armour? 

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I am pretty sure they already added long capes in the game

Whilst I think they probably have made long capes, I wouldn't rely on details that are included in concept art being in the game. Concept art is created to fire the imagination of artists and establish a common understanding amongst the team of what the visual style(s) of the game will be; each detail isn't necessarily a prototype for what will be recreated in the game.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

There is also a difference between concept design and game art. That image is game art--no 3D artist could reliably create something from that without having to guess the details. It has a composition which might never show up in the actual game, and unlike film where concept art can be used in the early planning phase of sets or costumes, a lot of the time game art is made after the 3D models have already been completed, or are simply made independently. Just look at the background art in Rome II total war. Some of the stuff you see in the images aren't part of the playable game at all, and there is no evidence that they were cut content.

Concept design on the other hand is made specifically for 3D artists to use as direct reference.

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