Independent economic sustainability in early-mid game.

[Apocal]

Reread my post. I said: "The real issue with the OP is that most of what he's asking for is already possible."

I was disagreeing it was only mostly possible. It is 100% possible, right now.

 

[five bucks]

I was disagreeing it was only mostly possible. It is 100% possible, right now.

Again you need to reread the rest of my post to learn I am talking about the tournament rewards etc. that he was asking for.

 

[Bratok]

Go around beating up unhired minor faction mercenaries. It doesn't really damage relations, especially if you release them after battle.

Thanks! An interesting option. Most such factions are not allied with any major nations. But definitely not for early game. They usually have armies of at least 60+ men.

Two handed swords, it's pretty much all you need. If you are going to stay independent caravans are worth while

Funny thing, I am trying to level smithing and two-handers seem to be the cheapest (even with high tier parts). The most expensive weapons are javelins, polearms and axes. The smithing is ridiculously ****ed up. They didn't even try to balance it. It looks like a pre-alpha placeholder.
Moreover, most player-forged swords (one and two-handed) have bugged hand grip position and sheaths.

If you don't like the smithing exploit, you can always wardec any of the Empires.
They are pathetic in military sense and you'll be filthy rich in no time.

Well, in my current playthrough Empire remnants pretty much **** everyone else, while constantly fighting with each other. They have huge armies. And I don't use any nation-changing mods, except RBM unit overhaul.

Bannerlord gives much more loot for winning battles (no penalty for more party units) and you ALWAYS get capture of an enemy lord, this alone makes it very easy to sustain yourself.

Well, I haven't fought huge battles yet, however I clearly see that loot system in BL is greatly inferior to WB. I commented about it in the recent loot thread.

Further more there are some very profitable quests you can do "land owner needs manual laborers" can be very good, you complained about "hunt the brigands" but it's fairly rewarding IMO, deliver the herd in aserai villages can giver you 10 warhorses, which you can just sell and fail the quest for an easy 15k.

Yup, I like those quests too, however they are too RNG-based. Bandit "cockroach hunt" can take days (while you spend money for wages and food). You get a bad RNG and/or linger too long and your net reward gets smaller and smaller. And I am pretty sure landowners' payment depends on prisoner level, so looters (as the most numerous and ubiquitous bandits) won't bring much profit.

What makes you think such a party should be able to sustain itself without doing anything you mentioned in the first place?

Because why the hell not? It's supposed to be a COMBAT sandbox game, not a wacky and bugged Crusader Kings spin-off. I have ZERO interest in building dynasties and managing fiefs. Especially considering the poor state of these game aspects.

You could solve the entire problem and pay your daily wages with just two or three workshops. It takes all of about 20 - 30 days to get the first two up and running.

Well, the problem is how the hell am I supposed to get 45 000 gold in just one month? While being dressed in rags and commanding a bunch of peasants?
And besides, workshop economy is broken right now. The manufacturing economics is so discreet, unpredictable and illogical.
I have three workshops in a city with three villages that produce iron ore and hardwood. You know, which workshop is the most profitable? Smithy? No (zero profits). Woodwork? No (100-150 profits). It's TANNERY (1000+ profits). I even tried to sell iron ore and hardwood in the city to fill the market with raw materials - it gave zero effect.

In Warband you could fight Deserters to make your cash, which is mentioned in the op post. They were a high-risk, high-reward enemy who travelled in large parties, had proper military equipment/skills, and dropped decent loot. Thus making a playstyle like OP enjoyed in Warband more viable than it is in Bannerlord.

Could not agree more.

Thank you all for your feedback.

Since the economy is ****ed up right now, loot is pathetic, and Crusader Kings rip-off elements are borked, I'll stick to abusing smithing and buying workshops. The profit is average and strangely RNG-based, but at least in BL they can't be loss-making, and I don't have to supply them with raw materials.
My favourite part of the series has always been combat, anyway.

 

[Apocal]

Thanks! An interesting option. Most such factions are not allied with any major nations. But definitely not for early game. They usually have armies of at least 60+ men.

Don't get stuck on the numbers. I suppose that depends on your definition of early game, but with 30 tier 3 troops, you'll usually be able to beat the weak ones (Hand, Embers, Wolfskins, etc.) with relatively few losses.

Again you need to reread the rest of my post to learn I am talking about the tournament rewards etc. that he was asking for.

Yes, I read it. I just disagree. When a player hauls down 35,000 denars from a single quest, that's enough to fund a high-tier party for better than half an in-game year.

 

[five bucks]

Yes, I read it. I just disagree. When a player hauls down 35,000 denars from a single quest

Well I don't know who you're disagreeing with then because it's not me. My post didn't claim that there aren't some poorly balanced earlygame quests with disproportionately good enough reward to fund a player right now. (That fell under "most of what he asks for is already possible"). My post does, however, say there needs to be more good midgame quests that also have suitable rewards. There should be more challenges with higher risk and reward.

And the main purpose of my post was to defend someone saying OP shouldn't expect be able to play independently (regardless of whether he is already able to).

 

[EmpireMan]

Well, in my current playthrough Empire remnants pretty much **** everyone else, while constantly fighting with each other.

That is a very good thing.
If they are constantly fighting, they most likely have lots of low-tier troops. You just have to choose losing sides in their wars and harass them.

They have huge armies.

Huge armies are very slow you don't have to fight them.
Or you can wait the clash of two such armies and finish the winner. Way more fun!

Well, the problem is how the hell am I supposed to get 45 000 gold in just one month?

9-10 battles with 100+ parties.
And that is just loot.
Add ransom money and you can have that sum in couple of weeks.

 

[Oakenlix]

Because why the hell not? It's supposed to be a COMBAT sandbox game, not a wacky and bugged Crusader Kings spin-off. I have ZERO interest in building dynasties and managing fiefs. Especially considering the poor state of these game aspects.

Then do real combat instead of wiping out small bandit parties. Start battling lords, war loot brings plenty of money.

 

[kab]

Training troops pays 2400 from day one and requires exactly one group of looters, it's often completed in the same day. Add in deserters, caravan ambush, army of poachers, trouble with brigands, inn and out, bandit hideout all of which largely overlap. Then dump prisoners at a town that needs manual laborers for another 10-15k+ on top.

Well, the problem is how the hell am I supposed to get 45 000 gold in just one month? While being dressed in rags and commanding a bunch of peasants?

Already answered, see above. Typical results are 2x caravan/workshop on day 30 plus a full party of T3 cavalry. Average adding 1 workshop/caravan every 10 days until 6-8 (total) around day 70. That's in addition to building a full party of cavalry, buying pack animals for weight, keeping enough food to level Steward 1-2 points per day, buying warhorses to later be used for upgrades (in the meantime, infantry get to use them to increase speed). Also includes money and diversions to marry both the main and brother (2 wives + brother become first 3 parties). I hardly bother with tournaments, if you want to that makes it faster.

I have three workshops in a city with three villages that produce iron ore and hardwood. You know, which workshop is the most profitable? Smithy? No (zero profits). Woodwork? No (100-150 profits). It's TANNERY (1000+ profits). I even tried to sell iron ore and hardwood in the city to fill the market with raw materials - it gave zero effect.

The economy is inherently unstable and especially vulnerable to disruptions from the player. Yeah, it's a mess, on the other hand you can go around removing every Pottery workshop in Calradia and create a monopoly for yourself. I consistently get ~100 from a bad workshop, ~400 from a good workshop and ~200-300 is common (w/ Sweatshops). They never start there, they build to it.

It's usually Wool/Tannery that do well in 1.5.8 for me. Khuzait/Empire cities in particular provide profitable Wool shops nearly across the board. Only time I have three workshops in one town is my own fief for RP reasons. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. With the shop limit you're better off targeting Wool in 3 different towns.

Anyway, that generally turns in to 2-3k of passive income by day 100, and with Frugal + Efficient Campaigner as soon as you do join/form a kingdom I end up rolling around nearly 100% of the time with a clan-only army of 350+ for < 1500 denars and then all of the equipment and prisoners are pure profit. Add in some trading and you've got a couple mil in the bank within a few years. Well, you could, I usually end up spending 1+ mil on tier 6 stuff just to make the companions look baller but what else is there really.