Increase unit collision and weight/mass

[Praefect]

As the title suggests, add more collision and mass to bodies (both infantry and horses).

Right now in big battles, bodies slide around like they're on ice skates and glitch and collide into each other in physically impossible ways. It really ruins the gameplay and tactical pace of battles, both in multiplayer and singleplayer.

Units clip through each other like they're made of nothing. As such:

1. It makes tactics like shield walls practically useless. You can pretty much walk through them.
2. Cavalry just charge through layers of tight infantry formations like butter (unless they actually hit the very narrow rectangle that is the player collision box)
   See something like this video (youtube.com/watch?v=6Xly3-iuGXE) where light horses charge into a heavy shield wall like it's nothing. Doing a cav charge like this in Warband would have been suicide.
   And most of the time where you're being charged by cavalry, you're pushed around like you're no-clipping instead of being knocked over/nudged.
3. NPC melee battles last a few minutes. Since every unit is so close to each other, you can be hit by someone five units behind the person in front of you and vice versa.
4. Many tactical elements are gone. In Warband, for instance, you had to find openings in the battle line if you wanted to be involved. In Bannerlord you can simply phase through them. Watch this example at the time stamp: youtu.be/eub9OI4RIw8?t=35
   Also in this example, the Empire get hammered because their formations are spaced out in comparison (In any other case they look normal), which means that each man in the frontline is getting attacked by 10 dudes clipping through each other, performing overhead swings.

I'm not sure why it was done this way? Was it to stop people from blocking doorways in multiplayer?

I could be wrong, but I don't remember this ever happening in Warband (at least to this extent). Mount & Blade battles have always been 'messy', but not THIS messy. In Warband, bodies would pretty much stay glued to the ground. And there was (mostly) always a fair bit of collideable space around them. It really gave weight to units and made solid formations worthwhile.

You can see some gameplay from the Beta gameplay presentation here (youtu.be/pv2qb66PbUg?t=235), where this kind of thing doesn't happen. Units have weight and collision (like actual people). They can block bottlenecks. They don't slide around unrealistically. They aren't clipping through each other. And the battles are slower, more methodical and tactical.

Now compare this to Bannerlord's current state: youtu.be/aWFFI3Ls3EE?t=866
I couldn't find a better example, but you get my meaning. It's a glitchy, unrealistic mess.

Forgive me something like this has already been posted. It's seriously the only thing (aside from the inevitable bugs) that's keeping me from truly liking this game.

I'm wondering if anyone else has thought the same? Because I haven't found any other posts complaining about the same thing when I thought it would be WAY more talked about.

 

[Squdge77]

100% agree

They probably did it for cavalries sake so that horses wouldn't just get stuck in infantry formations and they could keep moving and charging

But yeah it does kind of suck. I wonder if a mod could change it and we'd see what the effect would be in the game? Maybe Taleworlds had a good reason to change it to its current state (performance?)

 

[Johanno]

Actually Cavalry is just that strong. Yes I agree riding through a shield wall is not that realistic. But most of the collision is just fine in my opinion

 

[Hardmode Fan]

HAHA what a downgrade I didn't expect this.
Melee combat with AI stupidiness 1000 vs 1000 Melee fights will turn into buble formation mess, and theslaughter wont last longer than 3 minutes. Its awkward and is below the standard for such a great game.

Riding a horse need to have downsides. There is no proper mechanic how Character reacts to obstacles or during collision or damage taken.

EDIT: Greatest example is Red Dead Redemption 2

 

[Praefect]

Actually Cavalry is just that strong. Yes I agree riding through a shield wall is not that realistic. But most of the collision is just fine in my opinion

I dunno dude. Right now, when horses walk through infantry, the infantry end up sliding everywhere like they're pieces of butter.

Seriously, try blocking a horse going at walking pace with a thick shield wall formation. The horse will simply push you out of the way. There's no reaction from you or the horse. No animations. Horses barely slow down. There's no sense of weight to anything.
Horses and physics simply don't work that way.

In Warband, at least you could actually slow down or stop a cavalry charge if you had enough men in a tight formation. It was way more realistic that way. But in Bannerlord, it doesn't matter many lines of heavy infantry you have. Some horse archer on a light horse can literally walk through and cut a line into your ranks with barely a fuss, moving your units about like they're standing on ice. What's the point of having these extra formations (shield walls, skeins, etc.) if this happens? There's absolutely no point. Same with infantry v infantry (in the case of infantry having barely any collision or weight)

Seriously, this example is just ridiculous: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AflenPO2nc&
It's so apparent in this example that, if the horse rearing animation doesn't play (which seems really random at times), light cavalry can simply walk through and carve a path through heavy spear infantry. Even when infantry have their shields up in a tight formation and horses are at walking pace.

It's neither realistic nor is it any fun gameplay-wise

 

[Johanno]

Well it is true, that Horses are OP. But i got stopped by a huge amount of units. it was a pile of infantry and after about 8 they stopped me and killed me from the horse.
Warband in comparison was way too bad balanced for cavalry. Horses got stopped after 2 charges immediately

"nor is it any fun..." i think it is way more fun to have a strong cavalry and really need to watch out for them.
But this is a taste thing.

 

[ItsAlmostHarvestinSeason]

i second this too, it feels too much like warband. When two formations collide they just sort of melt together, and die really fast. I kind of want infantry formations to sort of poke at each other with their weapons and shield bash in a prolonged melee, and be unable to move past a shield and weapon's reach. The horses are a lot better but they still feel like vehicles more than actual living things with their own agenda to stay alive i.e not charge at the pointy sticks.) spears stop cavalry in their tracks which is great, and you can't just charge through thicker formations from what i've seen, but the AI rarely times it right or holds their ground. If they could brace, similar to how horsemen couch their lances it would be fantastic.

 

[FireGods_68]

I agree and disagree with this. On one side it is really easy to walk through shieldwalls which should be adjusted. But I always remember back in war and during sieges have to pull back every unit so I could actually get some action because units were impossible to push.

 

[King Yngvar]

I'm not sure why it was done this way? Was it to stop people from blocking doorways in multiplayer?

Don't tell me they ruined the battles just to please some whiners from multiplayer.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

well take a video of yourself holding a shield and have a friend riding in full force against you so well non realistic idk about that. But sure alot of people pushing from the back would stop it...however you prob would be crushed

OP have some points and some not ex by saying battles dont last that long. Think they are long enough... not to long not to short. And those footage are old. Battles doesnt look like that now, Like that second clip you mentioned. But sure if someone had a thin line like that against double handed axes they wouldn't last long.

I was worried to in the beginning that battles would be to fast since i also saw these videos before release. But when i got the game it felt pretty much about right

 

[Shik]

agree, units clump too closely now as opposed to earlier in 2016 but player should still be able to push their allies out of the way