Improvements to the power strikie/throw/draw skills

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jrawlings

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Change the skills such that a player can use any weapon in the game, regardless of skill. However, they incur a penalty if the appropriate skill isn't high enough. My reasoning is that anyone can attempt to use a weapon... I've never tried to swing a two handed great sword (or any in real life) but who's to say I can't give it the ol' college try? The basic concept of swinging a weapon or shooting a bow or throwing a stick isn't rocket science, any character should be able to attempt it, albeit without much luck.

Here are examples of how this could be implemented:

Power strike: Instead of making weapons restricted by strength allow anyone to use any weapon. However, if the powestrike skill isn't high enough, they incur a swing speed penalty. For example, let's say weapon X currently requires a strength of 10 to use. Let anyone use that weapon, but they will incur a 10% decrease in swing speed for each point of power strike below 3.

Power throw: Again, anyone can use any weapon. Each weapon has a power throw requirement to use without penalty. So, let's say javelin X requires a power throw of 3. If you have power throw of 3, there would be no change from what you see now. BUT, if power throw is less than 3, the reticule gets bigger, like what you'd see with horse archery. Another way to do this would be to decrease max range.

Power draw: Same as power throw. If you want to wield a war bow, you can, but if your power draw is less than 4, the reticule will be bigger. Another way to penalize would be to decrease max range.

The reticule penalty would be additive with the horse archery penalty if someone is trying to throw/use bow on horseback. So someone with a horse archery of 0 and a power draw of 0 using a warbow on a coarser wouldn't be able to hit the broadside of a barn while at a full gallop.

Of course, each weapon would still need to have on its description the skills required to use without penalty... so that war bow would have a notation of "power draw of 4 required for use without penalty" or something like that.
 
Change the skills such that a player can use any weapon in the game, regardless of skill. However, they incur a penalty if the appropriate skill isn't high enough.
I always supported that.

Power draw: obsolete. You can't really draw your bow further than the arrow length. And archery is way too powerfull anyway now.
 
I couldn't agree more. However, i think the penalties for trying to use a bow that you are not strong enough to use properly should be extreme. If you've never fired a bow in your life, and you pick one up, without instruction you'd be lucky to have the arrow travel 3 feet. Its really funny how on SWG you have to be uber level to be able to use most blasters :lol: Like you have to have the strengh and intelligence of a god to pull a trigger...
And archery is way too powerfull anyway now.
Correction: Horse archery is overpowered. On foot i usually feel safer with a sword, because if your opponent has a shield you have to wait until he's 3 feet from you to fire...by which time his friends are all right behind him.
 
I'm actually againt this idea.

The current strength restriction is realistic because if you're not strong enough, you can't use it properly. You can't even swing fast enough to do actual damage, or your weapon would fly away from your hand, or your weapon's momentum is so great that you'll injure your arms. Try swing something really heavy then you'll notice you instinctively try to swing very slowly. No one want to use such a weapon in a fight. It's suicidal.

My opinion is power strike is about blade allignment and use of speed and momentum, not the muscle power.

And power draw and power throw, it's make sense to make these skill to affect rectile. Also it would make damage extremely low.
But still, since you need a certain ammount of power to draw a certain bow, it's possible to argue that when power draw is lower than the requirement, you can't use it at all.
 
A normal person can handle a tho handed sword, swing a battle axe, wear a full plate and draw a bow to the full lenght of the arrow so yes, away with the limits, both the power- limit for weapons and the stat limit
 
"My opinion is power strike is about blade allignment and use of speed and momentum, not the muscle power."

Not only :smile:

I would agree to take out the limits, however I think there should be a GREAT penalty specially if you are far from the weapons minimum.

Well, then it would be a waste of time to use one, so maybe its not worth it. However if sometime in the game we could pick up weapons from corpses and maybe loose our weapons it may help.
 
Realistically, three posts above me, the beginning of what you are talking about is exactly the same as what was suggested hahaha. Yes, if you aren't strong enough to wield a weapon, you obviously won't be as adequate in using it, thus the suggested swing speed increase as well as the reticule of ranged weapons growing larger.

As for the poster two spots above me, I'd venture to say that you have never shot an arrow from a bow. If you have, then you are out of your mind to say that any normal person can use a bow. It requires a looooong time to be able to accurately put that arrow into someone's head or a target from more than 30m or so. Also, if you want your arrows to be flying across the universe, there aren't many "normal" people who would be able to even pull the string back far enough to make the arrow leave its slot. Have you ever attempted to pull the string of a 60lbs bow? Many of the people playing this game probably couldn't even pull that back, so when you say normal, you should say super humans who can run around in fully plated scales and chainmail undergarments while flailing their 15-25lbs Longsword around like Sonic The Hedgehog spins through loops.

You don't seem to understand how hard it is to even hold a Claymore out with one hand using no thumb support. It's a lot harder than you think... As was stated above, the scenario of the vikings dying of heat exhaustion would only bolster the argument of running faster w/ said armor on.

It is through this, that I would say the game runs somewhat decent and realistically as opposed to what was said about everybody running too slow... Because you probably wouldn't be running super ultra fast with all of that armor on.

This is why not everybody wore an amazing amount of armor and is why lots of people settled for leather in order to have agile movement as well as the ability to not die from running two feet.
 
Manitas said:
Change the skills such that a player can use any weapon in the game, regardless of skill. However, they incur a penalty if the appropriate skill isn't high enough.
I always supported that.

Power draw: obsolete. You can't really draw your bow further than the arrow length. And archery is way too powerfull anyway now.

I always assumed power draw was the skill required to pull the bow string to a minimum required to get the arrow aloft with any accuracy... being able to hold the bow steady with that much tension etc etc...
 
Tekka said:
As for the poster two spots above me, I'd venture to say that you have never shot an arrow from a bow. If you have, then you are out of your mind to say that any normal person can use a bow. It requires a looooong time to be able to accurately put that arrow into someone's head or a target from more than 30m or so. Also, if you want your arrows to be flying across the universe, there aren't many "normal" people who would be able to even pull the string back far enough to make the arrow leave its slot. Have you ever attempted to pull the string of a 60lbs bow? Many of the people playing this game probably couldn't even pull that back, so when you say normal, you should say super humans who can run around in fully plated scales and chainmail undergarments while flailing their 15-25lbs Longsword around like Sonic The Hedgehog spins through loops.
I would also venture to say that the average person in the time period this game is set would have some rudimentary skill in firing an arrow from a bow... much like most folks have at a minimum a rudimentary ability to type on a keyboard.

So, I think it is reasonable that any M&B character, regardless of skills/stats should be able to pick up a war bow and be able to get an arrow aloft. However, how far that arrow goes, what direction it goes, is another story.

Same would be true for use of other weaponry... maces, longswords, claymores, even big honkin' warhammers. Again, they may not be effective and it would be borderline suicidal if they took said weapon up against a skilled opponent.
 
DaLagga said:
Correction: Horse archery is overpowered. On foot i usually feel safer with a sword, because if your opponent has a shield you have to wait until he's 3 feet from you to fire...by which time his friends are all right behind him.
On foot, I feel safer with bow AND a sword :twisted:
 
jrawlings said:
Power strike: Instead of making weapons restricted by strength allow anyone to use any weapon. However, if the powestrike skill isn't high enough, they incur a swing speed penalty. For example, let's say weapon X currently requires a strength of 10 to use. Let anyone use that weapon, but they will incur a 10% decrease in swing speed for each point of power strike below 3.

I don't know.Power strike as it is works fine (increasing damage), after all, if you've spent years building your upper body strength then you are likely to hit a lot harder
Strength would be a better indicator. I'd be in favour of a more 'natural' system : a Strength threshold to actually use the weapon (usually really low, perhaps 5-7) below which you cannot even wield it. Between the threshold and the requirement, then you should get -1 to speed for each strength point you are short. You could apply bonuses to speed based on how much you exceed the requirement afterwards, though there should be a maximum limit (balance issue). Power strike should remain damage related though.
I think this would work quite well. It stops the two handed weapons becoming a no-brainer at the least. You would still cause more damage with a Sword of War, but you'd be significantly faster with a sabre...

Power throw: Again, anyone can use any weapon. Each weapon has a power throw requirement to use without penalty. So, let's say javelin X requires a power throw of 3. If you have power throw of 3, there would be no change from what you see now. BUT, if power throw is less than 3, the reticule gets bigger, like what you'd see with horse archery. Another way to do this would be to decrease max range.

I would disagree. Again, power throw represents the strength of the throw rather than the accuracy. It makes sense for similar reasons as power strike (think of a shot-putter). Also, thrown skill would be better at representing accuracy, after all, if you've spent a few years practising throwing (high throw skill) you should be able to throw accurately, regardless of how powerful the throw is.

Power draw: Same as power throw. If you want to wield a war bow, you can, but if your power draw is less than 4, the reticule will be bigger. Another way to penalize would be to decrease max range.

I think power draw should effect the speed of the bow rather than range or penalty. Assuming you can draw the bow back to its fullest, then additional power isn't going to help the strength of the shot. However it should increase how quickly you can achieve the maximum draw on the bow.
 
Well, I'm saying that, if you're using a weapon, which is too heavy and cumbersome for you, you can't use it. Not just 'with massibe penalty'.
Try something really heavy (like a big hammer for construnction) and your swing will be too slow to do any harm.

Strength cap is, the minimum requirement. You can't use it with enough efficiency if your strength is under this value.
 
Ryuta said:
Well, I'm saying that, if you're using a weapon, which is too heavy and cumbersome for you, you can't use it. Not just 'with massibe penalty'.
Try something really heavy (like a big hammer for construnction) and your swing will be too slow to do any harm.

Strength cap is, the minimum requirement. You can't use it with enough efficiency if your strength is under this value.

No one would fight with a big hammer for construction, at least not if they want to have a chance of surviving the battle against an opponent with "real" weapons.
 
I must add (as someone who owns several medieval replicas and a good bow) that anybody can pick up a sword and swing yes you will be tired after a while but yes.

Someone can pick up a war bow and draw it to the full length of the arrow NO that is not possible that is wary strength based. I have let several friends of mine try to draw my bow and some of my weaker computer geek friends cant draw the bow more than two decimetres and I couldn’t draw a friends Mongolian horn bow more than three times the length of the arrow before I had exhausted my arm strength. (My friend makes his own bows, composite with horn sinew and wood, apparently the way the Mongols made there bows.)
 
Look, I think the issue here is skill, not strength. The most basic people in this game are peasants, and peasants are tough people. That's why all those River Pirates and Sea Raiders want them to man the oars. Seriously, it just wouldn't be a sound business practice to want weaklings powering your ship. It doesn't make you look good to all the other pirates. So yeah, let people wield weapons far beyond their skills to use them. On the other hand, keep the strength requirements for "heavy" weapons.

That's my suggestions. Use BOTH systems. If you do, drop the strength requirements on most of the basic weapons, like longswords and stuff. Also, add a speed penalty for weak people wielding/carrying "heavy" weapons. You never see Lester the Unlikely running the 3-minute mile with a 150lb GreateAxe, right?
 
Ok, for powerdraw...I (me, personally, NOT my charachter) use a 30lb pull recurve, (the hunting bow, or weaker) and it is quite easy to shoot for extended periods, and even hold. An english longbow HAS been recorded as being at least a 100 lb pull (and you could recognize archers by the disfigurement caused by constantly pulling that weight. Their right shoulders were larger than their left). Powerdraw most certainly should be a minimum requirement for a bow to use. Or, as a previous poster suggested, give ridiculous accuracy penalties AND make the draw much much slower. This, at most, should allow only one step difference. There is no way i could draw an english longbow unless I laid down and pulled with both feet.

Throw is excellent as it is.

And power strike isnt a requirement for anything. Only the strength stat itself. And i feel that the minimum reqs are a very good idea, to prevent idiots from trying to use a huge sword. Remember, fatigue is not implemented, and so a weakling using a sow is ridiculous. I can swing my 3lb bastard sword for MAYBE five minutes in a sparring match before fatigue really sets in, to the point where it becomes hard to move it. Any fresh person could cut me to pieces. UNTIL fatigue is implemented, i support the current system.
 
Another vote for the current system of strength requirement.

I'm afraid I just don't see the point: so my str 5 character can now use a broad sword, but with crippling penalties; he's still going to be a helluva lot better with a nomad sabre. So why would I bother?
 
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