SP - UI Improvements to command bar

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vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
Before the command wheel update you had a visual indicator on the ground showing which direction your troops would face before telling them to face that direction and it was really important to be able to quick position troops during battles, don't know if it was completely removed or it's bugged but i would love for this to return since right now i have to guess quickly by my mouse movement which direction my troops will face before giving the order which is really unintuitive in the heat of battle.

Another thing that was proposed a few times already and i would like to reinforce is to remove the redundant F8 and F9 formation shortcuts entirely (it makes no sense when it's easier/quicker to press F2 to access formations) and if possible replace them with two new commands, switch weapons and attack formation.

Switch weapons could have the following options:

- use polearms (ai would switch to spears, pikes, and polearms in general if they have them)
- use sidearms (ai would chose one handed weapons if they have them and two-handed non-polearms if it's all they have)
- use ranged (ai would switch to bows, crossbows or throwing weapons if they have them)
- use weapons at will (ai will return to vanilla behavior where they chose which weapon is more suited to the task)

This would keep the command structure simple which seems to be a main concern for Taleworlds while allowing the player to have a much higher degree of control that's really needed, i'm the commander, i don't want the ai making all decisions for me.

and the second suggestion could be something like:

you press the formation command to select them, say i selected my infantry, then i press F9 (attack formation or something on these lines) and it could then show the enemy formations like:

f1 - infantry
f2 - ranged
f3 - cavalry
f4 - horse archers

(and so on based on the formations the enemy is using)

this way i could specifically tell one of my formations to focus on another ignoring other formations unless they directly cross paths and keep attacking that one until they are destroyed or routed.

for example i may command my infantry to advance and focus on the enemy infantry while my archers i'll tell to focus on enemy cavalry and my cavalry on enemy archers, i've lost count on how many times i've tried such commands with the way vanilla ai works only for them to change targets mid-battle for whatever reason and completely botch my strategy.

no matter how much you work on the ai it'll never be a substitute for direct player imput and i find this really necessary to be able to fully enjoy the battles.

i want to command and i want my troops to obey my commands instead of relying on their good judgement that fails many times.
 
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+5 Sir, I like it and I'll buy it.
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I invoke @Ling*
 
no matter how much you work on the ai it'll never be a substitute for direct player imput and i find this really necessary to be able to fully enjoy the battles.

i want to command and i want my troops to obey my commands instead of relying on their good judgement that fails many times.
Absolutely agree with you my friend, and it turns out the Captains League community also agrees with this sentiment as well just take a look:
unknown.png


These commands are features that are absolutely necessary for Captain Mode and Singleplayer both. Without these tools the Ai will always make suboptimal decisions and you will never actually feel like a true commander. These options will improve the overall battle experience for both competitive and casual players alike as they are systems which allow all players to make impactful decisions and they also raise the threshold for what is possible for a commander to do. There is virtually no resistance from the collective Bannerlord community at large to implement these changes, I can safely say that we all have wanted these features for a long time, just do a quick search in the forums and you will see several posts in support of this very idea. However we need to stand together to convince TaleWorlds to embrace these mechanics and optional commands alongside us and persuade them that it is indeed in the best interest of gameplay design and maintaining a positive player experience overall.

Here is a list of threads previously discussing these command options:
Problems and Solutions
Focus fire on enemy unit
Deciding target of the ranged troops
Battle Command: Switch Weapon
Who Should Decide Which Weapons to Used By the bots, the Player or the Ai?
Captain Mode Ai Targeting Ideas
Why Won't My Ranged Troops Target the Cavalry?
Selective Targeting For Formations in Battle
How about an Focusing command for everyone
1 year since early access and spearmen don't use spears by default
Modifying Ai weapon usage
Friendly Siege Engines Blowing Up Allies
Siege Ai
RTS camera
Archers are stupid
Little List of issues with Captain Mode

In addition to this, both of these commands were featured in the Captains League top 10 most requested features/fixes for captain mode which was a culmination of the most commonly requested features based on the feedback of atleast a dozen clans in the competitive community. These players have thousands of wins in the gamemode, and they have even more games played than that, they are the most experienced and qualified people to have opinions regarding what will and will not work for captains mode and their ideas should not be so quickly dismissed as they likely have more games played than the QA Testers do. These players are the ultimate representation of who TaleWorlds target customer for Bannerlord should be. We all care deeply about this game and are genuinely sad and frustrated to see it in the state that it is despite our best efforts to provide TW with quality feedback that would improve the game tremendously if implemented.
You can check out that list here:
Top Ten Most Wanted Features For Captain Mode
(As requested by the Captain League community)

1. Add More new large maps, similar to Ruins of Jawali in size and larger. (They could be as simple as utilizing pre-existing Campaign maps, and then adding 3 Morale flags and then porting them into multiplayer) Players are absolutely HUNGRY for captain mode map variety and will gladly take as many maps as you can give us. Seriously, like 3-4 more maps atleast. This was by far the most requested feature on the list.

2. Ai ranged units should be given a focus fire / selective fire command and be able lock on to a targeted location or enemy unit, preventing the ai from turning around trying to shoot any units that are behind them or are too close to them when you need them to focus on a specific location. This will allow archers to face in only 1 direction and not get distracted when firing.

3. Separate the updates and balance patches between Skirmish and Captain mode so that an update designed to improve or balance one mode, does not negatively impact the other mode in any way as the balances for each mode would be independent of eachother. 1.5 is a huge example of an update designed specifically for skirmish that ruined the balance of captain mode.

4. Allow captains to control which weapons their ai troops wield at any given time, and also allow the player to tell our troops to cycle through their weapons functionality. For example if I have a Battanian oathsworn unit with the following setup: Bastard Sword , Shield, and Spear. We should be able to give them a command to "Swap weapons" or "Switch to spears!" or "Swords out!" and they will pull out the weapon that we tell them to and not switch unless the player commands them to. Additionally with the bastard sword and other multi-use weapons we should be able to tell them "Use 2handed!" or "Use 1handed!". Currently if a cavalry unit gets too close to your melee units, your ai will decide all on its own to pull out a thrust weapon to try and combat the horses, which causes them to not use their stronger mainhand weapons during a melee fight against other melee units putting them at a severe disadvantage. This is a mechanic that simply needs to be removed to give more control to us players.

5. Mirror-match / Same-faction battles should have more obvious color difference so as to distinguish each team from the other, for example aserai vs aserai is impossible to tell which units belong to which team during a closed in melee fight due to both faction colors being brown.

6. More class variety and perk options that are useful for captain mode and large-scale unit engagements. This includes making the current classes more viable to play in the mode, as currently skirmisher units, light cavalry, and archers rarely if ever get picked over 2-handed shock troops due to how effective shock troops are in comparison. With the latest 1.5 patch this problem was made even worse than it was before. Please make more classes viable to play.

7. Faction balance needs to be as close to 50% for all factions as possible, not exactly 50% but close enough to where we don't encounter a faction that is nearly impossible to win with such as Battania and its 21% round winrate, and even more abysmal match winrate. If you need help testing captain balance, I can think of no better players to ask to help test than the players of Captain's League.

8.Re-position the flags and spawns on the current maps so that more area and space can be used for fighting and is viable to play in during matches. Currently the flags are too close together and too close to the center of the map, leaving alot of unused terrain and open space near the outer reaches of the map that never get used.

9. Add new formations and replace any non-functioning formations such as the "Spread out" command that does nothing in multiplayer. Ideas for formations: Testudo, Phalanx, or the Zulu "horns" formation, and definitely there needs to be a "Spear brace" formation for our troops.

10. Ranged weapons and arrows should deal more damage to shields and or make them too heavy to weild after having 20-30+ arrows or 3-4 javelins stuck in them.
Thankfully with the help and diligence of the MP development team some of these things have been implemented already, and we hope we can expand this into the implementation of more community requested features such as #2 and #4, Focus Fire and Switch Weapons respectively. We appreciate the support and responsiveness that Taleworlds have shown to captains thusfar but we feel as though there could be more done to help improve the game with knowledgeable player feedback acting as the guide.

@AVRC @MRay I hope that by now it is clear to the people on the development team who are debating these topics that allowing the Ai to make these decisions for the player is not working and that "Focus Fire" and "Switch Weapons" are absolutely necessary additions to the game in order to fix the many problems that result from this. Players desire more control over their Ai troops and are currently dissatisfied with how they perform and the decisions they make in battle. You have said in the past that if improving the Ai decision making was not enough to resolve these issues, then you guys would implement focus fire and switch weapons. We have patiently tried it this way for over a year and it simply is not working, I would ask that you please consider trying it our way going forward and I promise you will see better results all around.
 
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Absolutely agree with you my friend, and it turns out the Captains League community also agrees with this sentiment as well just take a look:
unknown.png


These commands are features that are absolutely necessary for Captain Mode and Singleplayer both. Without these tools the Ai will always make suboptimal decisions and you will never actually feel like a true commander. These options will improve the overall battle experience for both competitive and casual players alike as they are systems which allow all players to make impactful decisions and they also raise the threshold for what is possible for a commander to do. There is virtually no resistance from the collective Bannerlord community at large to implement these changes, I can safely say that we all have wanted these features for a long time, just do a quick search in the forums and you will see several posts in support of this very idea. However we need to stand together to convince TaleWorlds to embrace these mechanics and optional commands alongside us and persuade them that it is indeed in the best interest of gameplay design and maintaining a positive player experience overall.

Here is a list of threads previously discussing these command options:
Problems and Solutions
Focus fire on enemy unit
Deciding target of the ranged troops
Battle Command: Switch Weapon
Who Should Decide Which Weapons to Used By the bots, the Player or the Ai?
Captain Mode Ai Targeting Ideas
Why Won't My Ranged Troops Target the Cavalry?
Selective Targeting For Formations in Battle
How about an Focusing command for everyone
1 year since early access and spearmen don't use spears by default
Modifying Ai weapon usage
Friendly Siege Engines Blowing Up Allies
Siege Ai
RTS camera
Archers are stupid
Little List of issues with Captain Mode

In addition to this, both of these commands were featured in the Captains League top 10 most requested features/fixes for captain mode which was a culmination of the most commonly requested features based on the feedback of atleast a dozen clans in the competitive community. These players have thousands of wins in the gamemode, and they have even more games played than that, they are the most experienced and qualified people to have these opinions regarding what will and will not work for captains mode and their opinions should not be so quickly dismissed as they probably have more games played than the QA Testers do and are the ultimate representation of who TaleWorlds target customer for Bannerlord should be. We all care deeply about this game and are genuinely sad and frustrated to see it in the state that it is despite our best efforts to provide TW with quality feedback that would improve the game tremendously if implemented.
You can check out that list here:Thankfully with the help and diligence of the MP development team some of these things have been implemented already, and we hope we can expand this into the implementation of more community requested features such as #2 and #4, Focus Fire and Switch Weapons respectively. We appreciate the support and responsiveness that Taleworlds have shown to captains thusfar but we feel as though there could be more done to help improve the game with the feedback of a large bulk of the most experienced current online player base acting as the guide.

@AVRC @MRay I hope that by now it is clear to the people on the development team who are debating these topics that allowing the Ai to make these decisions for the player is not working and that "Focus Fire" and "Switch Weapons" are absolutely necessary additions to the game in order to fix the many problems that result from this. Players desire more control over their Ai troops and are currently dissatisfied with how they perform and the decisions they make in battle. You have said in the past that if improving the Ai decision making was not enough to resolve these issues, then you guys would implement focus fire and switch weapons. We have patiently tried it this way for over a year and it simply is not working, I would ask that you please consider trying it our way going forward and I promise you will see better results all around.
☝️This is quality, documented and knowledgeable feedback.

giphy.gif


I tag @Dejan so that you might have a better follow up for the sake of better Taleworlds - fan communication.
 
Before the command wheel update you had a visual indicator on the ground showing which direction your troops would face before telling them to face that direction and it was really important to be able to quick position troops during battles, don't know if it was completely removed or it's bugged but i would love for this to return since right now i have to guess quickly by my mouse movement which direction my troops will face before giving the order which is really unintuitive in the heat of battle.
Currently "Face Direction" order tells the selected formations to face the location that the player is looking at, when the order is given. Essentially the troops look at the order flag that turns visible when the order UI is open. As far as I understand it, you problem is not really with the order but it's the fact that the little arrows below the troops are not visible. I'm not sure why they're not working, I'll take a look. I took a note.

two new commands, switch weapons and attack formation.
These fall outside of my area but I'll still take a note and mention them internally.
 
Currently "Face Direction" order tells the selected formations to face the location that the player is looking at, when the order is given. Essentially the troops look at the order flag that turns visible when the order UI is open. As far as I understand it, you problem is not really with the order but it's the fact that the little arrows below the troops are not visible. I'm not sure why they're not working, I'll take a look. I took a note.


These fall outside of my area but I'll still take a note and mention them internally.
Thanks for the reply and for taking notes about the second suggestion outside your area, really appreciated! tried to keep it simple and to the point of a few things that most people here believe would be immensely helpful for the overall enjoyment of battles in-game :smile:

As you said i tried the updated face direction command many times to get the feel of it and it works relatively good in a "testing environment", as soon as you are moving, riding and maneuvering quickly while fighting and trying to command at the same time is that things get confusing without the ground indicators that we had before, those helped immensely to have quick feedback of where your troops would be facing and how their position would change when giving the command.
 
These fall outside of my area but I'll still take a note and mention them internally.
I appreciate the response to vonbalts inquiries. Which section of the Development team handles troop commands/orders, the AI programmers? Could we perhaps get a response from them as well regarding these requests what their thoughts on implementing these changes could be, they are both features that are highly requested from the community and this issue in particular has been brought up several times over the last 3 years of development but the only response addressing possible implementation Ive ever got was from AVRC.
 
+1

Bannerlord desperately needs a more immersive battle simulation. And please fix the collisions!
 
In addition to the two commands mentioned above, which day by day are still in demand for direct implementation in Native, I would like to mention once again the option to save the position of the divisions in relation to the player's position found in VC.


Quick test

Imho, bringing back this mechanic would extend the tactical possibilities and would extend much more the playable experience of the player. And of course...technically it is 100% feasible, this mod and this one are proof of that.
 
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