Improve the recruitment system separating troop lines by fief type

Do you agree with a 3 fiefs - 3 trooptrees system?

  • Yes this sounds good

    Votes: 18 90.0%
  • No vanilla is better

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • No i would prefer a different system (comment)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Users who are viewing this thread

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
So as i was arguing in another thread i really think it would improve the balance of the game and usefulness of each fief type if each of them could recruit a different type of unit.

Currently castles serve no function, they are just worse cities that have no notables for recruitment and pay less taxes so they are just a burden to whomever is holding them while towns have lots of notables (so more recruits) and also pay the highest taxes while villages are just recruitment/quest hubs without walls that get raided all the time.

To try and achieve a better balance between good gameplay and realism i suggest these changes:

Villages: common troop tree
Castles: Noble troop tree
Cities: Militia troop tree

Reasons:

- Villages are your main source of recruits/peasants that come in a blanker state and can be molded in worthwhile soldiers with time if they survive long enough.

- Castles as the main fortifications and home of the nobility in each realm seems like the perfect place to have notables where you could recruit noble troops and this would add tremendously value to them since it balance their lower taxes with giving you the ability to recruit the best soldiers much more reliably than waiting for a notable to become powerful in the game as is right now, you also would know where to look for those troops and this is good for gameplay instead on hoping from village to village to village to see if any have a noble or two you can recruit.

- Cities being the main source of taxes income in the game are already powerful enough and have no downsides, i suggest they should only provide militia troop types since it would be a good balance between them having higher taxes than other fiefs so they provide the less "worthwhile" troops that are more focused on defense, not that those couldn't be improved before placing a system like this but they should have shorter upgrade paths and more specialized roles in defense of their hometowns being part of the citizen militia (like they do now), with this we also would have a reliable source of recruiting militia troops instead of just rescuing or recruiting from prisoners it is now so better gamplay aswell.

With these changes every fief type would have a better function and more worth in the game and you would know exactly where to go for each troop type using the existing 3 types of fief system the game has, then it would be just the normal gameplay of increasing relations with the notables to get your desired troops.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
+1
Absolutely agree, I would love this to be part of the recruitment system's sources. :party:
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Absolutely agree!! +1

- Cities being the main source of taxes income in the game are already powerful enough and have no downsides, i suggest they should only provide militia troop types since it would be a good balance between them having higher taxes than other fiefs so they provide the less "worthwhile" troops that are more focused on defense, not that those couldn't be improved before placing a system like this but they should have shorter upgrade paths and more specialized roles in defense of their hometowns being part of the citizen militia (like they do now), with this we also would have a reliable source of recruiting militia troops instead of just rescuing or recruiting from prisoners it is now so better gamplay aswell.

Though I like this, I could argue that Merchants should provide units from the Caravan Guard tree of the faction. I like these units and would be very happy to play around with them in early game.

- Castles as the main fortifications and home of the nobility in each realm seems like the perfect place to have notables where you could recruit noble troops and this would add tremendously value to them since it balance their lower taxes with giving you the ability to recruit the best soldiers much more reliably than waiting for a notable to become powerful in the game as is right now, you also would know where to look for those troops and this is good for gameplay instead on hoping from village to village to village to see if any have a noble or two you can recruit.

The Core! But I want the supply to be low - It should be abit easier but not easy to build a high base of noble troops. If you hold the keep, your access should be higher. "Stealing" big amounts of noble troops from other clans holdings does not sound fit :smile:
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Though I like this, I could argue that Merchants should provide units from the Caravan Guard tree of the faction. I like these units and would be very happy to play around with them in early game.

Agreed it would be cool to have even more types of troop trees attached to specific notables but i was trying to keep it as simple as possible so the devs won't scare the upper management with too much complexity if they considered the idea :lol:

The Core! But I want the supply to be low - It should be abit easier but not easy to build a high base of noble troops. If you hold the keep, your access should be higher. "Stealing" big amounts of noble troops from other clans holdings does not sound fit :smile:

Agreed as well, it shouldn't be as numerous as peasants/militia recruits and i think that ideally they should have like one spot for relationship with the noble notable, 1 spot for faction membership and one spot for being owner of the castle.

This way non-faction members can still get access to a very limited amount of noble troops from that faction if they have a good relationship with that local notable, factions members have a bit more and clan owner have the largest amount of spots adding all factors.

Of course there is also the recruitment difficulty slider to consider but that's another story.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Agreed it would be cool to have even more types of troop trees attached to specific notables but i was trying to keep it as simple as possible so the devs won't scare the upper management with too much complexity if they considered the idea :lol:

I agree! It can be a later step!

There is a problem though, neither militia or caravan trees has a T1 unit.

Agreed as well, it shouldn't be as numerous as peasants/militia recruits and i think that ideally they should have like one spot for relationship with the noble notable, 1 spot for faction membership and one spot for being owner of the castle.

This way non-faction members can still get access to a very limited amount of noble troops from that faction if they have a good relationship with that local notable, factions members have a bit more and clan owner have the largest amount of spots adding all factors.

Of course there is also the recruitment difficulty slider to consider but that's another story.

Great!
Recruitment difficulty could control when the "free" spot is unlocked. I suggest at 0 relation on Very Easy, then +5 for every difficulty level.
Buildings could unlock a second notable.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
I still think that these three sources of recruitment are ideal, however I would like to add a couple extra points.

A noble troop, presumably to be " trained ". As I commented in [Discussion Area] Redundant Units in the Troop Trees + Noble Branch tier simplification, I think that noble line could be simplified into three tiers since the first two of the five are redundant since we find analogous troops in the regular troop tree.

Also in that thread, I put on the table the upgrading criteria of a criminal troop. Can a looter evolve into a noble troop? In my opinion, not at all. Unfortunately the game allows this "incoherence" imo.

Then as discussed here, we would have three lines of recruitment; correct. However, we have forgotten about the mercenary troops, those belonging to the minor factions, guards and the criminal troops.

For me, it would be interesting if the recruitment panel of each settlement showed up:

VillagesCastlesTowns


Common troop / Minor faction trees by regular notable

Criminal troop trees by mafia notable
Noble troop tree by sargeant-castellar
Militia / Guards / Mercenary / Minor faction (only those native in settlement origin) troop tree by regular notable

Criminal troop trees by mafia notable

Therefore, I believe that the criminal troop trees ought to be simplified into three tiers, eliminating the possibility of these troops evolving into nobles (for example, sea riders, a T1-T3 branch like the minor factions one, or their evolution into regular troops ( by Disciplinarian leadership trait), never into noble from major faction).

In my opinion, the minor faction troops should be recruitable both in villages and towns. In towns, they should also be physically available in taverns alongside the mercenaries.
 
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AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I still think that these three sources of recruitment are ideal, however I would like to add a couple extra points.

A noble troop, presumably to be " trained ". As I commented in [Discussion Area] Redundant Units in the Troop Trees + Noble Branch tier simplification, I think that noble line could be simplified into three tiers since the first two of the five are redundant since we find analogous troops in the regular troop tree.

Also in that thread, I put on the table the upgrading criteria of a criminal troop. Can a looter evolve into a noble troop? In my opinion, not at all. Unfortunately the game allows this "incoherence" imo.

Then as discussed here, we would have three lines of recruitment; correct. However, we have forgotten about the mercenary troops, those belonging to the minor factions, guards and the criminal troops.

For me, it would be interesting if the recruitment panel of each settlement showed up:

VillagesCastlesTowns


Common troop trees by regular notable

Criminal troop trees by mafia notable
Noble troop tree by sargeant-castellar
Militia / Guards / Mercenary / Minor faction (only those native in settlement origin) troop tree by regular notable

Criminal troop trees by mafia notable

Therefore, I believe that the criminal troop trees ought to be simplified into three tiers, eliminating the possibility of these troops evolving into nobles (for example, sea riders, a T1-T3 branch like the minor factions one, or their evolution into regular troops, never into noble from major faction).

In my opinion, the minor faction troops should be recruitable both in villages and towns. In towns, they should also be physically available in taverns alongside the mercenaries.
I really like this. Being able to recruit a decent amount of bandit troops would add a lot of flavourful possibilities to the game.

Overall the notables feature is a great innovation to recruitment from warband which I think is direly underused; we finally have a robust method of having different troops trees recruitable from the same location and it's not being used. I'd also like to add that all Minor factions should be given 1-2 notables that represent them dotted around the map; so you can recruit their unique faction troops. You could also change it so the 'landowner' notable of each village provides recruits of the owner faction - not the cultural faction. That way we can get a small supply of troops from our native lands even in conquered nations half-way around the world; without trudging all the way back.

Also.... one or two sword sister notables would be nice?
 
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BoBB

Also, castle troops are only recruitable if you have good relations with the lord.
 

BoBB

You could also change it so the 'landowner' notable of each village provides recruits of the owner faction - not the cultural faction. That way we can get a small supply of troops from our native lands even in conquered nations half-way around the world; without trudging all the way back.

I'd prefer if we could resettle freed peasants to a village and if you resettle enough of a specific culture, eventually a notable of that culture will spawn.
 
I still think that these three sources of recruitment are ideal, however I would like to add a couple extra points.

A noble troop, presumably to be " trained ". As I commented in [Discussion Area] Redundant Units in the Troop Trees + Noble Branch tier simplification, I think that noble line could be simplified into three tiers since the first two of the five are redundant since we find analogous troops in the regular troop tree.

Also in that thread, I put on the table the upgrading criteria of a criminal troop. Can a looter evolve into a noble troop? In my opinion, not at all. Unfortunately the game allows this "incoherence" imo.

Then as discussed here, we would have three lines of recruitment; correct. However, we have forgotten about the mercenary troops, those belonging to the minor factions, guards and the criminal troops.

For me, it would be interesting if the recruitment panel of each settlement showed up:

VillagesCastlesTowns


Common troop / Minor faction trees by regular notable

Criminal troop trees by mafia notable
Noble troop tree by sargeant-castellar
Militia / Guards / Mercenary / Minor faction (only those native in settlement origin) troop tree by regular notable

Criminal troop trees by mafia notable

Therefore, I believe that the criminal troop trees ought to be simplified into three tiers, eliminating the possibility of these troops evolving into nobles (for example, sea riders, a T1-T3 branch like the minor factions one, or their evolution into regular troops ( by Disciplinarian leadership trait), never into noble from major faction).

In my opinion, the minor faction troops should be recruitable both in villages and towns. In towns, they should also be physically available in taverns alongside the mercenaries.
100% agree, This is exactly what I wrote down in my wishlist for a recruitment mod. Only addition I had is the recruitment of max mid tier auxiliaries in conquered territory. I really hope to see more defined role for the different fiefs.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
100% agree, This is exactly what I wrote down in my wishlist for a recruitment mod. Only addition I had is the recruitment of max mid tier auxiliaries in conquered territory. I really hope to see more defined role for the different fiefs.

I love the auxiliary subject, the first time I read about it was from Reddit. This would work great for the empire, however the question we must ask ourselves is; would it work for the rest? I have doubts. But one way to get auxiliary power would be the idea of cultural assimilation. I mean, after the conquest of a territory, eventually you can get recruits from both the dominant and the dominated factions at the same time.

This I commented then:

It is an idea that has long been raised by fans; however I rule out that such a deep mechanism may be implemented by Taleworlds.

Honestly, I think it would be a great idea if such factors were present:

- Auxiliar Troop tree reduced to 3 tiers x6 factions.

- Mixed equipment (the problem is that more 3d assets would be needed to complement it and that's always a problem with Taleworlds) This reddit thread captured it (but I like the idea of a separate tier 1-3 better)

8jbtnysboez41.png


- Assimilation by conquest (option to be activated at the beginning of each new campaign) something very similar to what this mod offers:Culture Changer

552-1586937941-2005506525.png
 
to get auxiliary power would be the idea of cultural assi
I love the auxiliary subject, the first time I read about it was from Reddit. This would work great for the empire, however the question we must ask ourselves is; would it work for the rest? I have doubts. But one way to get auxiliary power would be the idea of cultural assimilation. I mean, after the conquest of a territory, eventually you can get recruits from both the dominant and the dominated factions at the same time.

This I commented then:
I think it can work for the other cultures as well, only the name auxiliary is strongly connected to the romans. for example you could use "conscripts".
I would like to see this working in combination with the discussion in the other tread about movement penalties in foreign (recently conquered) territory. High penalty in the beginning and only recruitment of max mid tier auxiliary/conscripts en over time reducing this speed penalty and adding recruits from the conquering culture.

This also ties in with the other tread about snowballing.
Speed penalty + recruitment penalty + rebellion + "major power" considirations(total war) are al campaign mechanics to curb snowballing without altering the troop trees. I again strongly advocate to keep the troop trees distinct and even make the differences bigger. This makes every war unique.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Surely, if everything was well related and the orbits were aligned, systems like the auxiliary recruitment system would be a wonderful addition.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Sorry if this is a stupid question - What is ment by Auxilery - with Roman meaning, if not Imperial Militia with local(Battanian/Kuzhait/etc) origin/ethnology(from the culture of counquered fief)?
 
@Tryvenyall These could be complete divisions made up of people from a specific tribe. After 25 year service they would become citizens. They regular legions had better equipment but where not necessarily better fighters. For example:

"The Batavian auxiliary cohorts served a similar role for the Roman imperial army. Auxiliary in general usage can mean supplemental or even secondary, but auxiliary cohorts were not necessarily second-class troops. They came in two types. One was a short-term militia recruited as needed from local natives for the duration of a campaign. Such units were used “come as you are” with their own weapons, organization and leaders. The more regular type of auxiliary unit had a permanent structure and often had a long-term partnership with a specific legion. In both cases, auxiliaries were often raised as specialist troops in areas where the regular Roman army was weak (cavalry both heavy and light, missile troops, marines). The regular auxiliaries often had a mix of Roman and native arms and armor. Some of these units, the eight Batavian cavalry cohorts among them, were certainly veteran and elite troops"
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
@Tryvenyall These could be complete divisions made up of people from a specific tribe. After 25 year service they would become citizens. They regular legions had better equipment but where not necessarily better fighters. For example:

"The Batavian auxiliary cohorts served a similar role for the Roman imperial army. Auxiliary in general usage can mean supplemental or even secondary, but auxiliary cohorts were not necessarily second-class troops. They came in two types. One was a short-term militia recruited as needed from local natives for the duration of a campaign. Such units were used “come as you are” with their own weapons, organization and leaders. The more regular type of auxiliary unit had a permanent structure and often had a long-term partnership with a specific legion. In both cases, auxiliaries were often raised as specialist troops in areas where the regular Roman army was weak (cavalry both heavy and light, missile troops, marines). The regular auxiliaries often had a mix of Roman and native arms and armor. Some of these units, the eight Batavian cavalry cohorts among them, were certainly veteran and elite troops"

Interesting! And how should this be pictured on the game? I mean after conquering foreign terretories, we can recruit units from their trees. Lord that gains land will mix in troops from conquered cultures.

Are you more thinking of spawning an landless clan of the conquered culture joining the conquerer as a mercenary or something anong the lines?
 
Interesting! And how should this be pictured on the game? I mean after conquering foreign terretories, we can recruit units from their trees. Lord that gains land will mix in troops from conquered cultures.

Are you more thinking of spawning an landless clan of the conquered culture joining the conquerer as a mercenary or something anong the lines?
No, not at all. I was thinking in another direction. if you use the normal troop tree al recruits can upgrade to max level. You could make an additional troop tree that only upgrades to tier 3. This tree and it's recruits will only become available after a foreign culture takes over te town. For the empire this is easy. you could use the basic units, and give them empire weapons, helmets and shield, but leave their armor native for example.
 
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