Impressive Performance by Rhodok-Only Army on Foot

[Helmut_AUT]

Hi all

Was wondering if it would be feasible for my next character to lead an All-Rhodok All-Footsoldier Party, no Horses. Put this to the test in some Quick Battles and "Single Player" MP setups, and I managed to beat a 100 strong Vaegir Force (sans Cavalry) with 50 Rhodoks. If Vaegirs get a third of cavalry, 60 rhodoks can still beat about 80 vaegirs.

I know Nords are supposed to have the best meele infantry, but I never managed such ratios with them. It seems the Rhodok Sharpshooters are real killers if you can keep them separated from the meele for as long as possible.

Anyone tried a full campaign Rhodoks-Only?

 

[Fattyfat]

I'm sure you will have some success if you command your army well.  Rhodoks are low on the list of powerhouses, but by no means are they unplayable.  I'd say try it and see how it goes.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

Anyone tried a full campaign Rhodoks-Only?

I didn't play full campaign but I played mostly Rhodoks in singleplayer.

1) Be prepared to crawl on the map. All infantry army is super slow. Go watch tv while you move from one town to another.
2) Because you're crawling on the map, and because your battles will last 3x longer (you're waiting instead of attacking), keep in mind that you will progress much much slower with Rhodoks than cavalry factions. By much slower I mean mostly real world time.
3) Often, by the time you reach first hill to place your crossbowmen on, the enemy will be almost near you. In other words, your crossbowmen won't shoot more than 2 bolts, so you tell me why have them and not huscarls who would shoot 2 throwing axes instead.
4) Chinese crossbows were a great counter for cavalry. Rhodok crossbows don't kill any cavalry. You will have to kill them in melee.
5) Sharpshooters won't shoot near friendly units. Forget about sending your infantry in and stalling while crossbowmen shoot. It won't work.
6) Keep in mind that Rhodok recruits will get massacred by Looters. Unlike Sarranid recruits for instance, or others (didn't test all since I don't play with all). Good thing is you get crossbowmen fast.
7) Because 5 Rhodok sharpshooters are equal to 1 Mamluke, you will need much bigger army. Unfortunately, you have limit on how many troops you can have otherwise your morale kills you, and, well, you will move very slow.
If fighting on foot, forget the "I singlehandedly kill half of enemy troops" tactic. With Rhodoks that's a no-no. A lucky hit in the head with a javelin means you die. That means you can't risk much, which means your don't do that much on the battlefield. Which means your troops need to do more. But you're Rhodok so they won't.




ps: Rhodoks are ok early on, later you see the difference when as Sarranid you would have Mamlukes and with Rhodoks you're stuck with a unit tree that ends in the middle.

 

[HJKL]

Like Yoshi said, all Rhodoks is an uphill struggle. Fill a castle with those sharpshooters though and watch everything ever die. Ever.

 

[oldgiffer]

Whenever i play the Rhodoks i mod the size of the battlemaps, so that I can take advantage of the Rhodoks main strength; defence.

With a bigger battlemap, I have time to properly deploy my army, with crossbowmen on high ground, and the best/second best infantry as the main battle line, with recruits / lesser units on one flank, and me + companions on the other. I just wish there was a way to split units, so I could have 2 squads of Sergeants, and command each squad individually.

Link to how you change the size of the battlemap: Battlemap size tweak

 

[borge12]

That is brilliant!  Thanks!  Infantry only battles just became feasible for me. 

 

[Helmut_AUT]

Okay, so modding mapsize and time acceleration speed for world map sounds like it would help.

I understand where Yoshi is coming from, but:

"5) Sharpshooters won't shoot near friendly units. Forget about sending your infantry in and stalling while crossbowmen shoot. It won't work."

I figured that out, if put infantry ahead and aside of the crossbows, even better a little lower, it seems to work.

Like I said, I didn't think myself it possible, but seeing that 60 Rhodoks on foot kill a mixed force of 80 vaegirs easily in a normal custom battle scenario...

 

[hruza]

Rhodok high level deserters (sharpshooters and sergeants) gave my knightly band some good beating twice. Since then I attack them with caution.

 

[CryptoCactus]

I'm playing as a Rhodok in my current game. My strategy is simple: crossbows, crossbows, and more crossbows. Sharpshooters are extremely powerful and comparatively cheap (I'm not sure you can get better bang for your buck, in fact). I usually have two ranks: one filled with sharpshooters, mercs, and any inf I might have - this one goes in front. And the other filled with all of my weaker ranged units (crossbowmen and trained cbmen).

In my experience, Rhodok sharpshooters (aside from being one of, if not THE, best ranged troops in the game) are the best melee troop they have, aside from Sergeants (which are more expensive and harder to field). Just don't forget to F3-F1 when the enemy's charge is getting near, so they don't stand there aiming their crossbows like idiots and take a lance/sword/axe to the face.

And I do recommend taking a good few pathfinding points, or finding a companion with some and building them up a bit more. Because, as noted above, Rhodok armies tend to be sloooow going otherwise.

 

[Helmut_AUT]

Does their speed over land even out in mountainous terrain? Or does infantry get slowed down even more than horses in such?

I'm quite happy with my current Swadian All-Star Army, but tactically it's too Cavalry-centric and it gets old. So it does sound like Rhodoks are an option to experience different tactical situations.

 

[tarnus]

Could you clarify what type of troops you had and the Vaegir army was in the quick battle test?

 

[UnfortunateCrow]

I have a character that uses nothing but rhodok crossbowman, and I have been romping everyone.  This is on Normal/Normal damage too.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

and comparatively cheap (I'm not sure you can get better bang for your buck, in fact).

Well, they are 2x less expensive and 5x worse so you do the math

And I do recommend taking a good few pathfinding points, or finding a companion with some and building them up a bit more. Because, as noted above, Rhodok armies tend to be sloooow going otherwise.

Not "otherwise", they are slow with Pathfinding. I always focus on Pathfinding but they are still horribly slow. Although, to be honest, all troop speeds seem to be too slow in my opinion. With Rhodoks, it's quite normal to chase 1 bandit group for entire they and it's just not fun. Of course, you could keep a smaller more mobile army except that your troops are not Sarranid Mamlukes.

I have a character that uses nothing but rhodok crossbowman, and I have been romping everyone.  This is on Normal/Normal damage too.

As Sarranid you would be romping 5x faster and harder.

 

[Helmut_AUT]

Could you clarify what type of troops you had and the Vaegir army was in the quick battle test?

Quick Battle Test, Oasis Map (since I wanted the enemy to fight uphill). My Rhodoks got 50/50 Archers and Infantry (which in turn seem to be 50/50 highest and second highest troop tier).

100 Vaegirs on Foot against 50 of those Rhodoks - not really a problem. 85 Vaegirs with a 33/33/33 mix vs. 65 Rhodoks mixed 50/50 - no problem.

Not quite a scientific test, but assuming that each side gets high level troops randomly...

 

[CryptoCactus]

Not "otherwise", they are slow with Pathfinding. I always focus on Pathfinding but they are still horribly slow. Although, to be honest, all troop speeds seem to be too slow in my opinion. With Rhodoks, it's quite normal to chase 1 bandit group for entire they and it's just not fun. Of course, you could keep a smaller more mobile army except that your troops are not Sarranid Mamlukes.

Well, with enough pathfinding you can still outpace all but the fastest (smallest) Lord parties, and that's what I was really thinking of. I tend to ignore bandits completely after the beginning phase, aside from running them out of my villages and such.

As Sarranid you would be romping 5x faster and harder.

Sarranid Mamlukes are tough cookies, I'll give you that. I've never liked fielding all-cav armies, though, and the Sultanate's other troops are relatively unremarkable.

 

[Puerkl8r]

and comparatively cheap (I'm not sure you can get better bang for your buck, in fact).

Well, they are 2x less expensive and 5x worse so you do the math

And I do recommend taking a good few pathfinding points, or finding a companion with some and building them up a bit more. Because, as noted above, Rhodok armies tend to be sloooow going otherwise.

Not "otherwise", they are slow with Pathfinding. I always focus on Pathfinding but they are still horribly slow. Although, to be honest, all troop speeds seem to be too slow in my opinion. With Rhodoks, it's quite normal to chase 1 bandit group for entire they and it's just not fun. Of course, you could keep a smaller more mobile army except that your troops are not Sarranid Mamlukes.

I have a character that uses nothing but rhodok crossbowman, and I have been romping everyone.  This is on Normal/Normal damage too.

As Sarranid you would be romping 5x faster and harder.

You seem to complain about Rhodoks every chance you get, at first i was like ok those are legitimate complaints but now its like, ok we get it they are bad. Maybe its time to try a different faction hmm?

 

[Flavius Silvanus]

Okay, so modding mapsize and time acceleration speed for world map sounds like it would help.

I understand where Yoshi is coming from, but:

"5) Sharpshooters won't shoot near friendly units. Forget about sending your infantry in and stalling while crossbowmen shoot. It won't work."

I figured that out, if put infantry ahead and aside of the crossbows, even better a little lower, it seems to work.

Like I said, I didn't think myself it possible, but seeing that 60 Rhodoks on foot kill a mixed force of 80 vaegirs easily in a normal custom battle scenario...

It is a matter of direct line of sight, at least with the crossbows.  If you have your crossbowmen on top of a very steep hill or cliff, and your infantry at the bottom, your archers will continue to engage until the actual melee starts.

Is a crossboy consisdered  direct fire weapon?

 

[Aeon221]

While I doubt that the crossbowmen are the way, I can tell you for certain that Rhodok spearmen won't stop anything other than you on the battlefield.

Mercenary cavalry is practically necessary for serious performance against heavy cavalry armies like the Sarranids, and you'll rarely be able to find enemy lords that you can defeat as most of them will outnumber you -- and when you're outnumbered as the Rhodoks, you're practically begging for death.

You could give my mod a try, since it focuses on the issue of infantry being kind of crap, but in Vanilla you'll be giving up a lot to get a Rhodok foot army, and getting almost nothing for it.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

You seem to complain about Rhodoks every chance you get, at first i was like ok those are legitimate complaints but now its like, ok we get it they are bad. Maybe its time to try a different faction hmm?

Nah, that's because some people still come with "No wait, Rhodoks are good you just need to use units properly and look how nicely cheap they are! Great!". And then you look at their forum profile and they have "Swadia". Riiight   Even developers are sugarcoating things, so instead of posting in "Features" on game website what Rhodoks are really about, they deceive new people and write false data on purpose. You really can't accidentally write all the things about Rhodoks they wrote in those "Features", if you ever played with Rhodoks or against them.

I'll try a different faction when they make superior China-based or Japanese-based faction.

 

[Helmut_AUT]

With my current Char and his 50 A-Star Swadian Army, I ran into Rhodoks yesterday. We even outnumbered them with another Allies Lord, 80 to 60 or such.

Half of my best men died in that battle, including a lot of dead Knights and Sharpshooters. And that was versus an outnumbered, unorganized, tactically idiotic placed AI Rhodok Army, while I tried my best to use Cavalry, Archers and Infantry to their strenghts.

I think it's their Spearmen and the large Board shields. Definitly not a pushover - I've been pounding similar sized Nord Armies in the ground with no problem at all, they simple fall in a rain of crossbow bolts while my Cav is running them over at full tilt. Didn't work with Rhodoks.