Impressions from a new player

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

They don't. They just have numbers on their side.

Fair point. I forgot devs already decreased accuracy, which is nice, but the other issues still stand.

However, it is a bit strange that my character is so much behind in level from almost everyone else. My own soldiers have a much higher level. They wear their fancy armor and equipment, meanwhile, me, their commander, have crappy cheap armour and equipment. This kind of ruins the 'immersion', or 'suspension of disbelief' or whatever you wanna call it.

Leveling up troops is too damn cheap, and there is no reason for it since most players have 1.000.000+ denars in mid-late game.

 

[KalbMurrah]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not sure about my initial point anymore (that the game is balanced towards veterans). I think I haven't played it nearly enough to reach that conclusion. It's probably just a really hard game until you master a few things, then it becomes a walk in the park apparently.

I've completely ignored smithing because from what I read it's currently an exploit. I'll wait until it's more balanced.

It would also be nice if the devs figure out a different way to do promotions so that you don't end up with super elite troops so early and for almost no cost (other than wages).

Another thing I would love to see is 'formation attack/defense' where the troops act a bit more cohesively in large battles. Currently large battles can look pretty cool when armies have shield walls etc, but as soon as a charge command is given insanely choatic melee ensues.

 

[Apocal]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not sure about my initial point anymore (that the game is balanced towards veterans). I think I haven't played it nearly enough to reach that conclusion. It's probably just a really hard game until you master a few things, then it becomes a walk in the park apparently.

No, you're completely right. It is balanced around players who've gotten skilled at certain, fairly specific, things. There was nothing wrong with that impression.

 

[cyresdog]

But how would your idea stop market inflation? There would still be plenty of raw materials for smithing even if you had to give up lots of relatively high-tier weapons to upgrade troops. It would probably do more to encourage a player to abuse smithing as their primary (or only) income source if they need tier 5 weapons and armor for every tier 5 troop upgrade.

It would stop the inflation, atleast in my opinion, that you have to spent a large amount of gold, and therefore finally have a meaningful money dump, if you really want high end elite troops with high end gear

 

[TheWitchIzalith]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not sure about my initial point anymore (that the game is balanced towards veterans). I think I haven't played it nearly enough to reach that conclusion. It's probably just a really hard game until you master a few things, then it becomes a walk in the park apparently.

I've completely ignored smithing because from what I read it's currently an exploit. I'll wait until it's more balanced.

It would also be nice if the devs figure out a different way to do promotions so that you don't end up with super elite troops so early and for almost no cost (other than wages).

Another thing I would love to see is 'formation attack/defense' where the troops act a bit more cohesively in large battles. Currently large battles can look pretty cool when armies have shield walls etc, but as soon as a charge command is given insanely choatic melee ensues.

I would still give smithing a go, while you -can- exploit it. I smith because I like creating my own unique or customized weapons. So while yes, Javelins, and Two handed weapons can sell for 10k+ Easily (I've made swords that sell for 150k) yoou -don't- have to sell them.
I made the Javelins / Swords to unlock new parts, and maybe sold 1`or 2, to cover the cost of resource / lost time trading.

Then literally just threw the rest in the trash, or gifted them to poor lords, so they could field armies again. The lords can sell to towns with out actually fully effecting the economy. The weapons just kind of disappear from their inventory and they get money. Unlike trade goods that actually have to be paid for by them (This was to keep them from bankrupting themselves / towns from large battles I believe).

Troops also used to take much much longer to upgrade successfully. Getting T5/6 was actually a time investment, but people complained and now its waaaaaay too easy, but I suppose since late game you need 100s of them easy is "better" balance wise.

A couple forced restrictions, like keeping mostly T3/4 units until you are rich, and not abusing Smithing or other money exploits makes the game a lot more fun honestly.

My current play through is a Northern Empire Legionaire, using only Infantry and Archers as a support unit. Smithing is only for creating my own weapons. Not for sale, and I'm organizing my units into "Divisions" in that I can only have 1 Elite troop, 2 T4, as "Captains" for every 17 men. Same for Archers. So it's 1 T5/2 T4/ 17 T3 = 20 men and I'm keeping my initial army quite small (40-75) until I have a town / castle to support. As of yet the king has yet to bestow one on me.

 

[Apocal]

It would stop the inflation, atleast in my opinion, that you have to spent a large amount of gold, and therefore finally have a meaningful money dump, if you really want high end elite troops with high end gear

And then you just make a few more javelins and you're back to having millions.

Meanwhile, every other form of money-making becomes non-viable.

Troops also used to take much much longer to upgrade successfully. Getting T5/6 was actually a time investment, but people complained and now its waaaaaay too easy, but I suppose since late game you need 100s of them easy is "better" balance wise.

I don't think they've adjusted XP requirement per tier?

 

[Julio-Claudian]

And then you just make a few more javelins and you're back to having millions.

Meanwhile, every other form of money-making becomes non-viable.

You could just choose not to exploit this clearly unbalanced part of the game lol

 

[TheWitchIzalith]

And then you just make a few more javelins and you're back to having millions.

Meanwhile, every other form of money-making becomes non-viable.



I don't think they've adjusted XP requirement per tier?

Maybe they didn't lower it, but they made it much easier to get, and shared experience across the unit. It's no longer based on individual merit. So Units of the same type don't actually have to participate, they just have to be somewhere in the back line while the elites kill everything and they get trickle down economy exp.

 

[KalbMurrah]

In my current playthrough I spent a lot of time to get to about 45 troops. Money was tight and I got tired of traveling all over to do quests to be able to support the party. Then I saw that the empress of the southern empire created an army to fight her many enemies, so I swore allegiance and joined her army hoping that if I prove myself she would grant me something.

The army attacked a castle, and I joined the front lines and even go a couple of kills in the siege. After we took the castle we left and immediately got attacked by a steppe army. Both armies were roughly 600 strong. We were crushed. The empress was killed in battle and I was taken as prisoner. Eventually I payed 300 for my freedom. I left and soon after was attacked by 6 looters. With my Vlandian lance I was able to pick them off one by one until there were two left. I charged them and they knocked me off the horse and hit me pretty good. I switched to sword and made a last stance with almost empty health bar, somehow managed to kill the two buggers.

After that I rejoined with two of my companions at a nearby city. I sold some stuff and now we are armed and armored and with 1300 in the bank. Have to rebuild from scratch I guess.

This game is truely amazing. Still a lot of work left for the devs, but it will get there.

 

[Apocal]

You could just choose not to exploit this clearly unbalanced part of the game lol

Not if it costs roughly 8-15,000 denars to upgrade to from tier 4 to tier 5 troop (his idea). And just to go back for context, crysdog offered it as a counter to the money you make from smithing, right here:

Just in case i misjudge here and this is not meant as sarcasm, the fact that you become the richest character in the game in less than 5 minutes if you know how. My personal record was 4 1/2 minutes till i made my first million gold

There was briefly one very specific duping exploit you could do to make money, but probably not within 4:30 and it has since been patched out anyway. So I assume he is referring to smithing two-handers and javelins. And it's totally correct to say that you can become the richest man in Calradia in minutes that way.

That sort of income stream can't be controlled only by making things like upgrades cost more, because the raw materials remain cheap, the skill requirements are low and smithed weapons don't follow market rules -- fixed prices and no limit to demand. Players who want millions can just buy cheap materials and smith a few more.

However, players who do choose to play legitimately and ignore the clearly unbalanced part of the game, they feel the impact because their income isn't effectively limitless.

Maybe they didn't lower it, but they made it much easier to get, and shared experience across the unit. It's no longer based on individual merit. So Units of the same type don't actually have to participate, they just have to be somewhere in the back line while the elites kill everything and they get trickle down economy exp.

They didn't make it any easier to get. In fact, they made it much harder by removing the 8x XP multiplier on autoresolve. The trickle down XP is new but amounts to about 5%? 10%? Whichever it is, I'm not noticing a huge difference in leveling times on a new playthrough, it's just players have realized they don't have to bash on tiny groups of looters in order to get their troops up to speed.

 

[cyresdog]

Not if it costs roughly 8-15,000 denars to upgrade to from tier 4 to tier 5 troop (his idea). And just to go back for context, crysdog offered it as a counter to the money you make from smithing, right here:


There was briefly one very specific duping exploit you could do to make money, but probably not within 4:30 and it has since been patched out anyway. So I assume he is referring to smithing two-handers and javelins. And it's totally correct to say that you can become the richest man in Calradia in minutes that way.

That sort of income stream can't be controlled only by making things like upgrades cost more, because the raw materials remain cheap, the skill requirements are low and smithed weapons don't follow market rules -- fixed prices and no limit to demand. Players who want millions can just buy cheap materials and smith a few more.

However, players who do choose to play legitimately and ignore the clearly unbalanced part of the game, they feel the impact because their income isn't effectively limitless.

Actually it was by marrying. I never really did the smithing part in the game as I find it extremely boring. But besides smithing and marrying or workshop exploits.
Even if you play legit you become insanely rich at one point in the game. So rich that you can not go bankrupt anymore.

But my idea still stands, if they lower the prices drastically for items it balances itself out again. Since the items for your troops become cheaper but also the sell price of your items is lower aswell. Talking about a reasonable sum of gold here.

I just want a meaningful, consistent money dump in the game. And I have to replace troops almost the entire game. And as others mentioned here, it just feels off thar my troops have better gear than myself so early on in the game.

 

[Apocal]

Actually it was by marrying.

How did you make a million off marrying in only 4:30?

 

[cyresdog]

How did you make a million off marrying in only 4:30?

If i remember correct it was some battanian lady or so? Or whoever caladog was the leader of, and i just instantly rushed to her, played the "minigame" that is basically nothing but luck, till she says "yup lets marry", spoke to her daddy if i can be her daddy now, he agrees for 1 lousy gold coin because balancing, go back to her, married her, toke her into my party and then sold all her crap. Been a while since i last played. Her Armor alone was worth roughly 500k

 

[Apocal]

If i remember correct it was some battanian lady or so? Or whoever caladog was the leader of, and i just instantly rushed to her, played the "minigame" that is basically nothing but luck, till she says "yup lets marry", spoke to her daddy if i can be her daddy now, he agrees for 1 lousy gold coin because balancing, go back to her, married her, toke her into my party and then sold all her crap. Been a while since i last played. Her Armor alone was worth roughly 500k

Yeah, but no town has enough to pay for that armor or those noble weapons at game start and lords only buy it at an incredible markdown. So how did you sell it in only four and a half minutes?

 

[cyresdog]

Yeah, but no town has enough to pay for that armor or those noble weapons at game start and lords only buy it at an incredible markdown. So how did you sell it in only four and a half minutes?

Okay maybe i phrased it badly, i didn't had the gold raw but more like in assets. But you could just buy everything in a town, trade it for that one armor and then sell all the goods at other cities till they are roughly at 0

 

[stevehoos]

If i remember correct it was some battanian lady or so? Or whoever caladog was the leader of, and i just instantly rushed to her, played the "minigame" that is basically nothing but luck, till she says "yup lets marry", spoke to her daddy if i can be her daddy now, he agrees for 1 lousy gold coin because balancing, go back to her, married her, toke her into my party and then sold all her crap. Been a while since i last played. Her Armor alone was worth roughly 500k

This type of stuff just kills the game for me. No immersion at all. You should never be able to marry without being somebody.

 

[cyresdog]

This type of stuff just kills the game for me. No immersion at all. You should never be able to marry without being somebody.

True but i hope you don't blame me for it, i just wanted to see how long it takes to actually make enough money to never care about it again in the game. And i think we can all agree that 1 million is more than enough for that.

 

[KalbMurrah]

So many ways to cheat the game because it's still in development. For me I will avoid all of these things because they're essentially no different than money cheats in console

 

[cyresdog]

So many ways to cheat the game because it's still in development. For me I will avoid all of these things because they're essentially no different than money cheats in console

True they aren't, but its hard to avoid most of them because either you grind your a** till you can afford a broken sword, or you "cheat" the game... can't really call it a cheat because you will find most of those "exploits" by accident. They are harder to avoid than not.

 

[KalbMurrah]

True they aren't, but its hard to avoid most of them because either you grind your a** till you can afford a broken sword, or you "cheat" the game... can't really call it a cheat because you will find most of those "exploits" by accident. They are harder to avoid than not.

Fair point. Maybe if there's a play mode where you start with lots of money, and/or troops/fiefs. This way you avoid the grind without having to exploit. The grind itself is a lot of fun for a new player, especially if like me they appreciate the challenge.

Edit: maybe make this mode locked until you unlock it by advancing far enough in a regular start