Im think done after Scramble League

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While the combat has definitely been much improved, the game suddenly being playable at the most basic level has highlighted just how much the core design decisions have absolutely obliterated any chance multiplayer has at being successful long term. To recap.

  • The Class System is a straight downgrade to that of Warband, and really any other game of the genre, in regards to both Balance potential and customization. The general thought process could work, but there is not nearly enough in place to make it worthwhile. In order for the current system to work you would need at minimum an extra 2 perk categories, along with every faction having access to at least a similar level of troop types. Half the factions not even getting true medium infantry is inexcusable, and warrants a complete overhaul of the system on its own. The devs have repeatedly said they will not budge on the class system despite it being disliked both by the players and by some employees within Taleworlds.

  • Battle not being present is inexcusable, and demonstrates that the decision makers at Taleworlds have absolutely no clue what its players want out of multiplayer. Both the casual line-battle crowd and the competitive tournament crowd entirely relied on battle mode in order for their desired communities to remotely function. By not including this mode, an extremely large portion of the community has been alienated from the game. Saying battle couldnt be included because of the class system is a horse **** excuse, considering that the community didnt want the current class system either. The decision makers at Taleworlds COMPLETELY failed to factor in opportunity cost when designing the game. If a proposed system makes a key part of your game impossible...it shouldnt be included. Whatever taleworlds could gain by doing the class system the way it was done can not possibly be worth losing the Competitive and LineBattle crowd.

  • The conscious decision to not give TDM static or team adjacency oriented spawns is mind boggling. The mode is complete cluster**** chaos due to the stubbornness in this regard. Adding some form of spawn adjacency would see it become a fun casual mode, but once again the decision makers have been steadfast in their refusal to listen to some very basic requests. Im nervous that Taleworlds has decided not to add this because they literally cant, and the implications that has on the usefulness of the map editor and the hope for future mods has me very nervous.

  • Siege was, is, and will continue to be nearly impossible to play due to constant crashes. The flagship gamemode of the series being often unplayable is easily the primary reason for why the multiplayer side of the game is as dead as it is. As I have said before, trying to push out some siege tests a week before the game officially launched was a very risky way to go about it. Siege being unfinished was easily enough justification to leave the multiplayer side of the game in closed beta a little longer, and considering the product that players received on launch, having done so would likely lead to multiplayer being much more alive today. The numbers playing multiplayer currently are roughly the numbers you would expect from an invite only beta anyway.

  • Captain mode being forced to rely on the same class system and balance decisions as every other gamemode is extremely detrimental for every gamemode. This has, and will continue to, create a cycle where the game goes from being properly balanced for captain mode and being properly balanced for everything else, entirely depending on which patch is live as the time. If Taleworlds cant even make the simple decision to create separate balance for vastly different gamemodes, frankly they shouldnt be the ones in charge of the said gamemodes or multiplayer. It does not matter how much effort ARVC or any other individual dev puts forth when they are shackled by extremely poor design decisions.

  • The way the addition of crush through has been handled is a perfect example of every issue the players have with Taleworlds right now.
    Taleworlds: "We are going to do (thing)"
    Players: "We do not want you to do (thing)"
    Taleworlds: "We have already had internal discussions and we have decided to do do (thing). Trust us, you will like (thing)"
    *Thing comes out*
    Players:
    "We do not like (thing)"
    Taleworlds: "Oh, ok :sad:. We will slightly adjust (thing)"
    Players: "You are not understanding. We do not want (thing) adjusted, we dont want it at all. We made that clear before (thing) came out."
    Substitute the word (thing) for the current class system, Skirmish as opposed to battle, Siege being a queue mode instead of in the custom server list, or crush through. Nearly an identical chain of events happened for every one of the things I just mentioned.

Counter Arguments To The Things I Said

"The game is early access, so your complaints are not valid. Wait until it is a finished product."
  • With the exception of siege instability, every single thing I have talked about is a deliberate design decision that Taleworlds has repeatedly said they will under no circumstances go back on. The game could be the best running, most stable, refined, and polished product on the planet, and many of us would still not enjoy it because of the core decisions I mentioned. I intentionally did not talk about the lack of gamemodes like duel or capture the flag because those are things which could realistically be added, but even if they were, they both would still be hurt by the core design decisions I mentioned. Duel will never live up to its full potential while crush through is in the game, and CTF is yet another thing that would be hurt by the unbalanced by design class system.
"Youre just a boomer who wants Bannerlord to be exactly like Warband."
  • If a game did something very well, it is generally expected that the sequel will attempt to emulate that success. Warband did some things very poorly, but rather than focus on improving those things, the designers instead chose to nuke the entire formula and start from scratch. Not including anything resembling a battle gamemode is proof that the devs did not value what made Warband good or unique. I honestly have a hard time wrapping my head around this argument. So you are surprised? That we want the game which we want to be good? To be like this other game? That we thought was good??
"Mods will just make everything how you want it to be anyway."
  • Yes they 100% will, but thats not even remotely what they should be doing. If Bannerlord was designed better, the mods could be used to add to the native experience, rather than completely replace it. The entire community being forced to download something Belendor threw together just to have a decent experience is detrimental to both the mod makers and to Bannerlord. Instead of focusing on improving the game and adding new and interesting game overhauls, like what Mercs, PW and CRPG did for warband, many of the best mod creators will be forced instead create a palatable "Native" experience just to establish a baseline for the rest of the mods to go off of. While this isnt a big issue for a PW equivalent, you are fooling yourself if you think CRPG or Mercs could function without first creating a functioning Battle and Siege mode, along with working adjacency spawns and a better form of gear selection. All things which the base game currently lacks and they will be forced to add on their own. Another important thing to consider is the new player experience. US_GK_Siege, MountAndSiege, POM, and IG_Battlegrounds was a gateway for many of us into the game. If all the most popular "native" servers are actually running on a native overhaul mod, that is a gateway which will not exist anymore. Unless we get very lucky and the existence of whatever mod gets created hits mainstream and becomes common knowledge as the thing you have to download in order get the multiplayer experience. If that doesnt happen, the majority of the multiplayer community will be completely cut off from new players, and will be unsustainable.
"Youre overreacting. Its really not that bad."
  • I mean sure, yeah. Im a huge fan of Mount&Blade. It holds a special place in my heart. Watching Taleworlds completely flop these decisions really ****ing hurts. Its like watching your favorite sports team trade all of their picks away to draft a bust #1 overall. Its painful. I want my passion to become mainstream and for Bannerlord to be a huge multiplayer success. For like 3 days after launch we had that, and it proved the interest in the genre is there. Unfortunately, those new players quickly departed, and on the way out they cited the same decisions that im laying out now and that we warned against back in the Alpha as the reasons they left.
"Did you not check spelling at all?"
  • No, I did not, and Im not going to either. If Taleworlds is allowed to have grammatical errors in THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE CLASSES, Im allowed to have a few in the book I wrote on my own unpaid time.
 

CANTON

Squire
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Flaming
Wow you write some terrible posts.

Wrong on all counts, completely disagree, just another case where you personally suck at the game and dont realise nobody else sucks as bad as you at it and don't whinge 1/100th as much

You're right, though. This game is flawed to its core. Looking at how TW is handling that fact, there's little reason to have hope for the future.
 

Itisausername

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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I mean like i don't really play mp so i don't know how bad ir is but sounds pretty bad eh i guess cool post
 
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Aprikosenmann

Squire
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I feel like the class system is a giant ankle cuff for the developers. No matter what they want to change they will have to go through the class balancing of every single faction for captain, skirmish and siege seperatly. And even balancing it out one time will be near impossible. They would have to seperate captain skirmish and siege classes but that would increase the required work for changes x3.

What if we drop the faction concept? Let us choose from all classes from all factions at all times? This would remove the struggle of faction balance and would create alot of diverse strategies I suppose. And then you could simply observe the pickrate of all classes and buff the rarest once without being concerned to destroy faction balance.

The devs should already be at the point that they realised it will be completely impossible to balance all 6 factions on all gamemodes and balance inf/cav/range ontop of that.
 

[CL] Octavius

Sergeant
WBNWVC
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I agree with this thread. If custom servers aren't announced soon (which I doubt they will be) I pretty much have no reason to play. I really don't enjoy skirmish or captain mode anymore and siege is pretty much just tdm with capture points as SNS is pretty much just a pub event now since almost all the clans have left Bannerlord. It's a shame to see but unfortunately it's probably time to give up. There's nothing special about this game right now like warband had.

Time to make a competitive CK3 community deus vult.
 

Revverie

Knight at Arms
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This post sums it all up. Literally. Sadly the devs won't listen to this, and we will have to rely on mods. So many years of waiting and it has come to this. My Singleplayer experience has been okey, but the multiplayer is a stab in the back. I can see why they wanted to go this route, but it feels like instead of actually thinking patiently they just started trying to put things together and sticking them with glue until the class system came up. They clearly changed direction a thousand times and this was the result. If they just had sticked with what they had and tried to do something better out of it, we would be having a much better experience.

This just can't go further anymore, this is like the end of the line for this system, and I'm just not saying it, the numbers are and the amount of threads on this are too. I tried to be hopeful when I found out battle was out of the game but it was way worse than I expected. RIP Bannerlord multiplayer, it hasn't been a pleasure.
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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What if we drop the faction concept? Let us choose from all classes from all factions at all times? This would remove the struggle of faction balance and would create alot of diverse strategies I suppose. And then you could simply observe the pickrate of all classes and buff the rarest once without being concerned to destroy faction balance.
You will remove uniqueness and strengths/weakness some factions had like in warband, which made it fun. But honestly with this class system, i would be fine with this.

Anything is better then this class system. But if the class system were to be remade from community feedback, this would be the last idea i would support.
 

WakaWaka

Regular
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Wow you write some terrible posts.

Wrong on all counts, completely disagree, just another case where you personally suck at the game and dont realise nobody else sucks as bad as you at it and don't whinge 1/100th as much

You're right, though. This game is flawed to its core. Looking at how TW is handling that fact, there's little reason to have hope for the future.
XDDDD
 

gopat

Squire
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Has it been confirmed we aren't getting battle mode? I expected many more game modes before early access finishes...
 

Aprikosenmann

Squire
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Has it been confirmed we aren't getting battle mode? I expected many more game modes before early access finishes...
To everyone who is asking for battle mode. Isnt battle super retarded with the class system? They need to do something else for battle.
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
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Everyone thinks battle mode will fix the game but the truth is taleworlds failed on every decisions they took so far so I’m fairly confident they will fail to design a new gamemode correctly. The only thing that can save this game atm is taleworlds waking up (not happening cuz they think they are right) or mods and taleworlds will delay mods as much as possible to try and force its ****ty ideas on every one. If 1.5.4 proposes no good content I will stop playing the game. The only good thing you guys did in 1,4 years was remove block delay and release echerion.
 
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To everyone who is asking for battle mode. Isnt battle super retarded with the class system? They need to do something else for battle.
They have said multiple times they will do a “single life” game mode, but that it will not be battle due to the class system not working for battle. Battle is such an important part of the game that if your system doesn’t allow for it, you need a new system.

Regarding what you said about having all the classes in one giant faction, that is pretty similar to how it worked in popular mods CRPG and Mercs. Every single weapon in the game for your class was available and there were no factions, but you had to unlock these weapons through a progression system. I would have infinitely preferred something like that or TF2 to what we got.
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
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A system like mercenaries would be great but it should be closer to mordhau (aka you can start with good gear, the unlocking is just cosmetics or small stats tweaks). Also we would need multiple characters. But hey, this system is too good to be in bannerlord
 

Namakan

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I'm pretty much at a point where I only play matches because that's the only part of the game remotely fun to me - playing with friends vs people of roughly equal skill and organization. That is a giant shame.

Patch 1.5 was roughly a month ago, and that was after 2-3 months with no patch at all. 1.5, while improving some things, introduced many other issues that have yet to be fixed. We see hotfixes and even a normal patch for singleplayer quite often, but the big issues on MP currently have yet to be adressed. I get that the SP department has more manpower, but seriously? A month with glaring issues and nothings happening, once again.
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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I don't think battle will save bannerlord. Gamemodes on their own won't save the game.

Like said before, the class system will make battle uninteresting.
 
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I don't think battle will save bannerlord. Gamemodes on their own won't save the game.

Like said before, the class system will make battle uninteresting.
Thats my point. If the current class system makes it so that battle doesnt work, the current class system shouldn't exist.
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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Thats my point. If the current class system makes it so that battle doesnt work, the current class system shouldn't exist.
I mean we saw this from far away honestly. As far back as in the alpha you could see this coming.


Maybe TW put thought behind the class system, but just not enough lol