IG's departure from the ENL

[Gurnisson]

This is ridiculous.

 

[Leifr Eiríksson]

Should ye' really be unlocking threads when the OP has specifically locked it? 

 

[Evenus]

Whilst this thread clearly has legs and will go on and on, IG withdrew for a clear reason, the rules as agreed by all league participants were not being upheld. 

I can understand that for some people on here that has been incorrectly construed as IG being weak, unprepared to compromise, or simply as being scared of facing the 22nd. 

This is not the case and with respect personally the arguments from those people are typically immature.

I supported leaving the league as I do not want to participate in an environment where the administrator or event organiser has the ability to chose not to apply the rules and uses a technicality to justify this.

 

[_HIV_]

only a holmgång can solve this dispute between the leaders of IG and 22nd

 

[corey43]

Holmgång! Holmgång! Holmgång!

 

[Troll]

Keeping this thread open, as people have a right to their say.

This thread was made to tell IG left the league.

Not for useless flaming.

 

[Goker]

I supported leaving the league as I do not want to participate in an environment where the administrator or event organiser has the ability to chose not to apply the rules and uses a technicality to justify this.

Yeah there is a big problem with the rules. It doesn't say that you have to actually make a decision about getting the default win or not. I guess organizers thought you'd be clear on that, which IG wasn't. Know when you don't say anything about getting the default win, or accepting to postpone, it usually falls to the organizer to help you decide, or better yet, make the decision for you. As you first agreed to do postpone the match to a later date, I do not see why you gave up on that idea, other than the supposed rejection of your demands, which does not seem to have anything to do with the match. To be honest, you are just being destructive here, leaving because of a reason that's not even important. If you had not demanded, but opened a discussion thread about it, like any other constructive team would do, then we wouldn't have to go through this at all. You would have done the match, and IG vs 22nd match would be decided in the game, not on the forums.

 

[Jur]

I supported leaving the league as I do not want to participate in an environment where the administrator or event organiser has the ability to chose not to apply the rules and uses a technicality to justify this.

Yeah there is a big problem with the rules. It doesn't say that you have to actually make a decision about getting the default win or not. I guess organizers thought you'd be clear on that, which IG wasn't. Know when you don't say anything about getting the default win, or accepting to postpone, it usually falls to the organizer to help you decide, or better yet, make the decision for you. As you first agreed to do postpone the match to a later date, I do not see why you gave up on that idea, other than the supposed rejection of your demands, which does not seem to have anything to do with the match. To be honest, you are just being destructive here, leaving because of a reason that's not even important. If you had not demanded, but opened a discussion thread about it, like any other constructive team would do, then we wouldn't have to go through this at all. You would have done the match, and IG vs 22nd match would be decided in the game, not on the forums.

I think that would be better if this would be settled in private , because most that this thread has done was drama,flaming, but also some more information for those who aren't involved.

About the thing that Goker said it in bold. I checked the rules and they say this: "If a team cannot show out with 10 players, for a match, the other team should continue with 10 anyway. If however, a team cannot make 8 players or more, the other team will be offered a default win, provided they have shown up with at least 10 players."

So plazek him self said that they don't have players and like I understood there weren't never 8 players on the server. I apologize if I am wrong on this one.  So if we look at that rule IG should get offered the default win and then they would decide. Rematch would be more fair in my opinion but rules are rules in this league I believed.

 

[SCGavin]

I supported leaving the league as I do not want to participate in an environment where the administrator or event organiser has the ability to chose not to apply the rules and uses a technicality to justify this.

Yeah there is a big problem with the rules. It doesn't say that you have to actually make a decision about getting the default win or not. I guess organizers thought you'd be clear on that, which IG wasn't. Know when you don't say anything about getting the default win, or accepting to postpone, it usually falls to the organizer to help you decide, or better yet, make the decision for you. As you first agreed to do postpone the match to a later date, I do not see why you gave up on that idea, other than the supposed rejection of your demands, which does not seem to have anything to do with the match. To be honest, you are just being destructive here, leaving because of a reason that's not even important. If you had not demanded, but opened a discussion thread about it, like any other constructive team would do, then we wouldn't have to go through this at all. You would have done the match, and IG vs 22nd match would be decided in the game, not on the forums.

We never agreed to postpone. We were only prepared to do so, if those conditions were met. They were not, hence we did not agree to postpone.

 

[Goker]

Yet you never decided on the default win either. You said you were considering it. For a long time.

 

[arsenic_vengeur]

Exactly, the condition of making public the conditions under which IG accepted to postpone.

 

[SCGavin]

Yet you never decided on the default win either. You said you were considering it. For a long time.

But we did:

Hi Lust,

I write on behalf of the Guard of Istiniar and have copied in fellow clan leaders - should you have any reason to doubt the legitimacy of this message.

After internal discussion a decision has been reached regarding the 22nd Battalion versus Guard of Istiniar ENL match.

If a team cannot show out with 10 players, for a match, the other team should continue with 10 anyway. If however, a team cannot make 8 players or more, the other team will be offered a default win, provided they have shown up with at least 10 players. If neither team has shown up with 10 players, the match should be rescheduled. Teams should allow 15 minutes, after the scheduled match time, for players to arrive, before any of these rulings are put into practice.

Only one member of the 22nd Battalion (Sadnhappy) turned up for their match against us on 30/07/11 whilst we turned up with ten players plus two substitutes. Logs from the ENL servers will confirm both our attendance and the failure of the 22nd Battalion to attend our scheduled match.

It was not the responsibility of the Guard of Istiniar to force the 22nd Battalion’s members to turn up for the match - this was the responsibility of the 22nd Battalion’s leadership.

After our match was scheduled to begin, we entered in dialogue with leaders of the 22nd Battalion. Their leaders insisted that the match be rescheduled - despite us making no agreement to this. When it became clear that the Guard of Istiniar would not agree to reschedule the match, the 22nd Battalion quit discussions.

Unfortunately this is not the first time the 22nd Battalion has broken the tournament rules. Such behaviour shows complete disregard for the rules, the organisers and fellow participants. Division A should be the pinnacle of the tournament, it should not be marred by clans persistently violating the agreed ruleset. I'm sure you'll agree that the tournament rules are not only there to be adhered but are there to ensure a fair and consistent environment for all involved.

If we do not claim a default win, we are creating a precedent for future instances of rule breaking. A precedent where clans can refer back to the 22nd versus IG incident, when they choose not to turn up to scheduled matches because conditions were unfavourable for them on the day. 

For the sake of the integrity of the tournament and by virtue of the rules which we - and all other clans - agreed upon prior to entering the ENL, we therefore claim a default win.

Best,

Lugh

 

[Mr Mohawk]

*Sigh*

And I was so looking forward to my computer being fixed...

Seriously doesn't Lust and the other organisers have enough **** to do without people dropping out, drama happening and general annoying ****?

 

[Gragnok]

lol

 

[MadocComadrin]

*Sigh*

And I was so looking forward to my computer being fixed...

Seriously doesn't Lust and the other organisers have enough **** to do without people dropping out, drama happening and general annoying ****?

Don't forget that literal pile of feces he has to shovel.

 

[captain lust]

So plazek him self said that they don't have players and like I understood there weren't never 8 players on the server. I apologize if I am wrong on this one.  So if we look at that rule IG should get offered the default win and then they would decide. Rematch would be more fair in my opinion but rules are rules in this league I believed.

22nd can argue, quite rightly, that if IG had given an indication they wanted the match to go ahead as a 10v8, they would have joined the server. There is nothing in the rules about having to join the server and in that situation, I can understand why they didn't. Had IG been clear about what they wanted, in the circumstances and then 22nd refused to join the server... things would be different.

 

[Morii]

And there is also nothing in the rules about the one team having to inform the other team of the rules they agreed to.

Furthermore, if one party just leaves the discussion alltogether before any concrete conclusion of the discussion, then they surely shouldnt have been surprised by what would have been the logical conclusion of the discussion, don't you agree? And that conclusion was indeed logical as at the point where 22nd just left, 22nd refused to play and IG had not agreed to postpone. In fact , per the rules of the league, there is only one possible conclusion to that situation.

 

[Meister_Eder]

So plazek him self said that they don't have players and like I understood there weren't never 8 players on the server. I apologize if I am wrong on this one.  So if we look at that rule IG should get offered the default win and then they would decide. Rematch would be more fair in my opinion but rules are rules in this league I believed.

22nd can argue, quite rightly, that if IG had given an indication they wanted the match to go ahead as a 10v8, they would have joined the server. There is nothing in the rules about having to join the server and in that situation, I can understand why they didn't. Had IG been clear about what they wanted, in the circumstances and then 22nd refused to join the server... things would be different.

The 22nd WOULD have joined the server IF IG had forced them to? Maybe IG WOULD have forced the 22nd to play the match IF there would be something in the rules about one team having to inform the other team about the rules and the consequences of breaking them, because otherwise the rule breaking of the other team will be considered completely irrelevant by the league administration. Maybe! If!

What the rules do say is that a team has to show up on the server:

If a team cannot show out with 10 players, for a match, the other team should continue with 10 anyway. If however, a team cannot make 8 players or more, the other team will be offered a default win, provided they have shown up with at least 10 players. If neither team has shown up with 10 players, the match should be rescheduled. Teams should allow 15 minutes, after the scheduled match time, for players to arrive, before any of these rulings are put into practice.

Of course, it doesn't say exactly where a team has to show up or arrive, but where else than on the server would the presence of a team be relevant? Or would it be sufficient if a team just showed up at their Teamspeak at the match time? And when would they actually have to join the server? Do the rules actually say they'd have to join a server at all?

So, in conclusion:
The rules do not explicitely say a team has to join a server at a certain time (even though everything else wouldn't make any sense), so the 22nd didn't have to join the server.
The rules do not at all say that IG would have to inform the 22nd about the possible consequences of their rule breaking. But this is considered common sense by the league admin, so IG had to inform the 22nd.


It's this ... let's say 'creative' ... handling of the rules which made me support our decision to leave the league.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Creative? Bull****. Once again, default should be avoided at all costs. No matter what the rules say, there should be an attempt to work things out.

 

[ramboTotalWar]

Hey
I read all the thread and i wanted to post just my opinion

1. Playing 10vs8 would be in our favour. Why should we prefer to play 10vs10 or refuse to play with more members? That would make no sense.
2. It is not our responsibility to offer to play 10vs8.
3. 22nd made clear they would not play at all, be that 10vs8 or 8vs8 when they said:

rofl, so you dont want to play 8v10 but you'll play 0v10. Shot yourself in the foot there, eh ?


oh, and i am also a 30 year old woman, and i think that, for the MOST IMPORTANT MATCH of the entire tournament, we can afford to be liberal with a few of the rules. I think everyone would rather ACTUALLY SEE who's the better clan, rather than who's the most organised. Honestly, it's like playing against a herd of lawyers playing against IG sometimes. Got their Fun Drainer 3000 on max setting again.

I think that  you think, corsair, that we must have shame about we did ( the Departure).
You think you don't have shame about your clan, which ragequitted in one of the "most important match" of the league?

And, for sadnhappy, if I had a little respect for you... well, now is gone.