If you were in Jesus' place

[Uther]

Wouldn't you die for everyone in the world?

If right now you were presented with an opportunity to be tortured and die in order to save every human from eternal torment, would you take it?
The ratio is one to trillions...
Let's also assume that if you do, your name wouldn't be remembered and people wouldn't worship you, but you'd die knowing that you are the lone savior of mankind.


My point being - that Jesus character is well over-rated.
It's commendable that he didn't puss out in the book, but neither is it amazing or beyond what any sensible human being would do in his place.
Imagine if Jesus chickened out and refused to save mankind by his sacrifice. Would he still be remembered? Probably, as a selfish spineless coward.

 

[Pixel]

Um....


WTF?

 

[Uther]

It's an interesting thread. What?

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

 

[Mage246]

It's not like he had a choice in the matter.

 

[Uther]

Sure he did.

 

[Turok]

It's not like he had a choice in the matter.

This.

Sure he did.

Being arrested and executed implies he didn't have a choice.

 

[captain lust]

Yeah, it'd be great being a fictional character. I'd do a ton of nice stuff, to get laid.

 

[Turok]

Yeah, it'd be great being a fictional character. I'd do a ton of nice stuff, to get laid.

I'm pretty confident Christ was real.

Did he do miracles? Was he the son of God? I don't know. Not for me to say. I wasn't there.

But the Bible can be treated pretty generally as a historical record.

 

[Uther]

Being arrested and executed implies he didn't have a choice.

Umm...He was supposedly a part of god, with superhuman powers.

John 10:11-18
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd sacrifices his life for the sheep. A hired hand will run when he sees a wolf coming. He will abandon the sheep because they don’t belong to him and he isn’t their shepherd. And so the wolf attacks them and scatters the flock. The hired hand runs away because he’s working only for the money and doesn’t really care about the sheep.

“I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. So I sacrifice my life for the sheep. I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.

“The Father loves me because I sacrifice my life so I may take it back again. No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.”


He clearly knew what he was doing, and clearly knew he would provoke his execution.

 

[captain lust]

But the Bible can be treated pretty generally as a historical record.

I'm really tired. Can someone school him for me?

I'll even get you started:

The bible claimed: Noah died 350 years after the flood, at the age of 950.

I appreciate, thats old testament but you didn't specify.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

But the Bible can be treated pretty generally as a historical record.

I'm really tired. Can someone school him for me?
...

In what? His position seems pretty reasonable to me, if not worded a bit too inflammatory.

 

[Turok]

But the Bible can be treated pretty generally as a historical record.

I'm really tired. Can someone school him for me?

I'll even get you started:

The bible claimed: Noah died 350 years after the flood, at the age of 950.

I appreciate, thats old testament but you didn't specify.

I said, "pretty generally."

If you read it with a lick of common sense and eye for detail, you pick out the seeds of truth from the lies.

 

[Mage246]

No, he didn't have a choice. Because, if you accept that he was divine (I don't, but that's beside the point), then you must also accept that it was part of a divine plan for him to sacrifice himself. And if it was part of a divine plan, then no he didn't have a choice as to what he would do. Doing that would have been the only reason for his existence in the first place.

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

Maybe he was just an accident and daddy decided to 'fix' the timeline a bit and give him a 'purpose'?

 

[Turok]

No, he didn't have a choice. Because, if you accept that he was divine (I don't, but that's beside the point), then you must also accept that it was part of a divine plan for him to sacrifice himself. And if it was part of a divine plan, then no he didn't have a choice as to what he would do. Doing that would have been the only reason for his existence in the first place.

This brings us to the paradox of the Bible.

If the Bible is correct and Jesus is God - remember that God's will is divine will - then he decided from the beginning to die.

Essentially, Jesus committed suicide by cop.

 

[Uther]

No, he didn't have a choice. Because, if you accept that he was divine (I don't, but that's beside the point), then you must also accept that it was part of a divine plan for him to sacrifice himself. And if it was part of a divine plan, then no he didn't have a choice as to what he would do. Doing that would have been the only reason for his existence in the first place.

Yes, but by that logic none of us have a real choice in anything.
Christians must reject determinism because free will is needed in order to put blame on men rather than god.
Of course, it get's rather confusing when you read verses like "me and my father are one".


PS: also not a single person answered my question yet.

 

[Mage246]

Humans get free will, divine constructs do not.

 

[Turok]

Would I die for everyone in the world?

I probably would. Hell, I'd die for the greater good of everyone in my country.

True story.

 

[Mage246]

It's not a true story unless you're actually dead.