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If only taleworlds choosed another timeline.

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MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
It's an incorrect, misleading, even disrespectful and pejorative term that has no place in serious discussion. I rest my case.
This must be the pinnacle of hostile pedantry and it's wrong. We are calling the Eastern Romans Byzantines now, a word with shared meaning. Whether they were called differently in their heyday it doesn't matter today. Trying to pretend otherwise is simply looking for pointless fights on the internet.
 

TengriBless

Regular
This must be the pinnacle of hostile pedantry and it's wrong. We are calling the Eastern Romans Byzantines now, a word with shared meaning. Whether they were called differently in their heyday it doesn't matter today. Trying to pretend otherwise is simply looking for pointless fights on the internet.
"Wrong" how?
I've given you all the reasons why it does in fact matter and you're rejecting them whilst not having brought up any counter arguments except for semantic change, which is only a halfway defensible point for the uneducated layman, given that the the correct nomenclature is still very much in use.
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
"Wrong" how?
I've given you all the reasons why it does in fact matter and you're rejecting them whilst not having brought up any counter arguments except for semantic change, which is only a halfway defensible point for the uneducated layman, given that the the correct nomenclature is still very much in use.
Wrong in that you are pretending the word is wrong just to pick pedantic fights. Why don't you do that elsewhere.
I'm sure there's someone somewhere that cares, but it's derailing and off-topic here.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
This reminds me of that idiot who nitpicked the term "beta" and acted like an insufferable know-it-all only to fail to cite his sources when asked and the last-minute references he ended up citing proved him wrong.
 
"Byzantines" never called themselves such, they always considered themselves Romans - but christian Romans, they did not dwell on pre christian era they considered just (unworthy) pagan. It is really correct to know that term Byzantines was precisely to lessen their prestige and legacy at least made by ppl who envied or dispised them.

I also like timescale of Bannerlord though Celts from Roman Republic era is really out of time. For too long developers atuned themselves to ppl who are too shallow * in knowledge so that is one of way how to make them study a bit.

* (thinking they know everything but in reality just not understanding even the basics - to have some info about plenty things does not mean automatically inteligent, too often just opposite - being lazy to think for themselves just copy and paste and repeat what is streamlined)
 
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MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Inappropriate content
This reminds me of that idiot who nitpicked the term "beta" and acted like an insufferable know-it-all only to fail to cite his sources when asked and the last-minute references he ended up citing proved him wrong.
I liked the -snipped- beta guy, he actually made good points but had trouble expressing himself in a rational, balanced way. I was rooting for him against you -snipped-.
"Byzantines" never called themselves such, they always considered themselves Romans - but christian Romans, they did not dwell on pre christian era they considered just (unworthy) pagan. It is really correct to know that term Byzantines was precisely to lessen their prestige and legacy at least.
That's fine, but that fight is long over and those who didn't like them won.
If you are afraid you will offend ancient peoples, you are free to call them Eastern Romans (still kind of offensive) or Romans (PC all the way). But no one has the right to tell others to stop using a common word like Byzantines.

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TengriBless

Regular
Wrong in that you are pretending the word is wrong just to pick pedantic fights. Why don't you do that elsewhere.
I'm sure there's someone somewhere that cares, but it's derailing and off-topic here.
Are you not seeing the hypocrisy of calling my relatively civil and well-reasoned protests unproductive and provocative while here you are falsely assuming my intentions and dismissing my points without elaborating? Adieu from me if you're not willing to partake in civil discourse.

"Byzantines" never called themselves such, they always considered themselves Romans - but christian Romans, they did not dwell on pre christian era they considered just (unworthy) pagan. It is really correct to know that term Byzantines was precisely to lessen their prestige and legacy at least.
Everyone considered them Romans, because they were. See the whole calling them "byzantine" gives the false impression that they broke off from Rome and were a new Greek state, which plays well into the EOKA agenda*. But the truth is that they never did. Over centuries of isolated rule of the halves the ideological and religious rifts grew too large to co-exist, leading to bloody "civil wars" between east and west. Reaching its peak in the great schism of 1000-whenever.

*(which is why oddly enough, the people who would just a few centuries ago would be opposed to the idea of being called anything but Romans now find being Roman unfavourable, since being Rome just isn't cool anymore, rather something more Greek-sounding, like "Byzantium" is desirable. But this is a sidetrack)
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
It's reasonable for our generation to refer to the Byzantine Empire even though that term was alien to its inhabitants (coined in the 18th Century). They were proud to be Romaioi (Roman) even though most of them spoke Greek.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
I was rooting for him against you -snipped-.
MadVader: 0
Glorious China #1 Country Future of the World: 1

Well its not like this is was a great thread anyway.
Well the thread originally brought up valid criticisms. This age is kinda boring because it's during that time where people were poor and ugly, but it's not that bad. Battania, Aserai and Khuzaits look somewhat exotic. Sturgia is good-looking enough for Viking wannabes. Calradian Empire looks rich and developed enough compared to others as it should be. Vlandia is the only one I feel unsatisfied at.I get that they're former adventurers with slapped-together gear, but come on. Does all their helmet really need to be cone-shaped?

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R1919

Veteran
I liked the -snipped- beta guy, he actually made good points but had trouble expressing himself in a rational, balanced way. I was rooting for him against you -snipped-.
Judging people with mental disorders is not cool, man. Even if you are one of them - it doesn't give you such rights anyway.

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Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Judging people with mental disorders is not cool, man. Even if you are one of them - it doesn't give you such rights anyway.
The beta guy we're talking about said it himself. Probably was just an excuse tho.
 
Well the thread originally brought up valid criticisms. This age is kinda boring because it's during that time where people were poor and ugly, but it's not that bad. Battania, Aserai and Khuzaits look somewhat exotic. Sturgia is good-looking enough for Viking wannabes. Calradian Empire looks rich and developed enough compared to others as it should be. Vlandia is the only one I feel unsatisfied at.I get that they're former adventurers with slapped-together gear, but come on. Does all their helmet really need to be cone-shaped?

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As someone already mentioned, if everyone had their way we would have dumb **** like Romans vs Knights vs Samurai. Leave that to modders.

And yeah, I think Vlandia looks awful and way more generic than it needs to be. I don't know why people like them so much, you'd think the feudal fans would be unsatisfied.
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the period, the idea that the Early Medieval Ages is all dirty, boring, repetitive, and lifeless is just lazy and narrow-minded stereotypes. What's boring is TW's take on it, the dynamic, and the lore of their world. It is in fact tremendously boring. The period is fine.
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Great choice of 'time period'. It would be nice if it wasn't totally static and new technologies, troop types etc. could emerge over time depending on certain factors.
 
The late antique time period is a great period. It’s dynamic, interesting, and a time of both great continuity and huge change.

What’s boring is the depiction of this time period as dull, grey, and muddy. Attila’s faded color pallet added to that feeling.

It doesn’t have to be boring and bland. Both Late Antique Rome and the Byzantine periods were very colorful. The late Middle Ages doesn’t have the monopoly on color — far from it! Late antiquity and the early Middle Ages had it too.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
It's an incorrect, misleading, even disrespectful
... but still well known and established among historians, as a known after-creation. [Eastern] Roman Empire is quite missleading too as they were ruled by greeks, speaking greek rather than latin and they were far from Rome. "Greek Empire" would have been a more proper name.

Incorrect - Nobody called them Byzantium when they existed, correct. They were "Greeks" or sometimes "Romans". Later the term became very common and established as the Roman successor.

misleading - How is it more missleading then ERE?

disrespectful - Yes, to the Ottomans who clamed to be the roman successor.

[..] that has no place in serious discussion.

I dispute this.
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
disrespectful - Yes, to the Ottomans who clamed to be the roman successor.
How is the name "Byzantines" offensive to Ottomans???
I swear all the people engaged in this kind of the debate must have some local nationalist axe to grind (TengriDude definitely does), because normal people would just say whatever, Byzantines or Eastern Romans, just as long as we know who we are talking about.

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TengriBless

Regular
... but still well known and established among historians, as a known after-creation. [Eastern] Roman Empire is quite missleading too as they were ruled by greeks, speaking greek rather than latin and they were far from Rome. "Greek Empire" would have been a more proper name.
It wouldn't have been, and you'd know why if you had read the comments:
Over centuries of isolated rule of the halves the ideological and religious rifts grew too large to co-exist, leading to bloody "civil wars" between east and west...
Also are excepting Greek population of Rome from being Romans for some reason?
Incorrect - Nobody called them Byzantium when they existed, correct. They were "Greeks" or sometimes "Romans". Later the term became very common and established as the Roman successor.
What do you mean they were "sometimes" called Romans? Are you serious? They were almost universally known as Romans BECAUSE there WASN'T A clear POINT where they seperated and became entirely distinct entities. Instead both just sort of pretending to be Rome and pretending that the other's an illegitimate pretender. That the largest demographic and linguistic majority was Greek doesn't change the fact that it was just the eastern peoples inheriting half the empire, and over time the ruling elite integrating into the local Hellenic populace.
misleading - How is it more missleading then ERE?
I'm not repeating myself a second time, read the comments.
disrespectful - Yes, to the Ottomans who clamed to be the roman successor.
..What are you on about?
 
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