If not now, when?

[Bjorn The Broken]

The fact that he has that many hours, tells me he must be a REALLY big fan of the game

Being of fan of the game does not mean you purely love or enjoy the game. I think it is fair to say that everyone here love general concept of the game but detail is not there and unfornutely this is the only game in the market has this concept. I have 352 hours played and changed my review to negative just because I consider myself a big fan of M&B franchise. I admit that I enjoyed while playing it but again I realized what kind of enormous enjoyment could have been if TW did a improved version of Diplomacy mod Warband had and it is pretty damn fair to demand that.

 

[RichardtheCat]

I don't want to reply one by one because it's endless arguing and not constructive at all.

Did I say anything about I like or dislike the game? But you're just guessing and judging from your pov which is sad. I did spend 1330 hours since the game released. Plus even most people didn't know the first games of the M&B series, I've been enjoying the previous games as much as I enjoyed the Bannerlord. So, actually, that means at least +10 years plus 1300 hours. If Armağan Yavuz didn't have the vision years and years ago we couldn't have the M&B series. But if the community didn't like the game and keep it alive with mods, forget being able to make Bannerlord, they even can't able dream about it as well. Imagine the M&B series without modding...Take your time and imagine...So, calm down...

Sometimes I did share my negative and positive opinions in the forum. All those are still in the forum. Sometimes I wrote with hope and share ideas about improvement if it's possible. When I say "if it possible" I do respect and understand the enjoy product for me is their business and we can't expect to get whatever we want. And some of these wishes will be covered by modders. However, we don't know how much will the game have, how much of it will be covered by modders. It's a pain for modders as well. Some of them stop making/updating their mods. Even the modders know or TW warns them about the disadvantages of making mods during EA. Once again imagine the M&B without mods. And right now I'm not hopeless actually. Otherwise, I won't spend time checking and communicating in the forum and nexus every single day like most people here. Sometimes I gave a break to the game to be able to enjoy the game more later on. So, I'm not just throwing some ideas around just because I'm frustrated. Once again, calm down...

Another thing I really don't want to mention but I've to now. As much as I'm a fan of the M&B series, I'm also a customer. I'm not only spending money I'm also investing my time to enjoy and relax. I see it in this way rather than wasting time. However, what has been shown to us at least about 3 years is not in the game because it's in EA which is understandable. But think it is like you bought a product and you're trying to reach customer service and they're not answering your calls or even they did, all they just say is "the service you've been calling can not reach at the moment. Please try again later." Instead of the auto message the real person keeps telling you on the phone. =)

The real problem is it's not a good move to share with the community a path rather than a roadmap. Check out the 7th image and you can see what is a roadmap. They are not developers of the game, they are a group of modders! You can see from beginning to end where the mod is going to go. And they're letting you know about news, updates in changelogs. What TW has been sharing with us is something between the changelog and the roadmap. If TW honestly shares the real roadmap with us tbh I can wait one more year for them to completed EA. Yes, one more year! I might not be able to spend 1300 hours more but I can spend at least 200 hours. =) So, again calm down.

"Acting like the dead" is a corporate communication strategy that companies prefer to use from time to time. It's a useful one though. And most of the time that is what TW prefers. I can not know the reason but it is what it's. I have some guess which I can swear but can't prove. =) And sometimes, one day someone comes out and says "the king is naked!" There is two realty in this. The first one is he is the king. And second, he is still naked. So, sometimes communities need to act to know more or get more from the king. So, what TW is doing now is feels like "S’ils n’ont pas de pain, qu’ils mangent de la brioche". Isn't it?

So, I'm neither an obsessive with the game nor a sociopath. If you would like to have a constructive discussion you're welcome and please share what you liked and what are you really missing once again. Do it if you want but it won't carry us to the point. As we experience just writing forums doesn't help at all. And if you read forums carefully lots of people already lost their passion and belief in TW. And it's not about lack of content, it's about their communication issues which is a more important issue for TW. And because of it, I decided to take an action and share my action with the community. Some people already mentioned changing steam review to negative won't do anything as well because they believe TW doesn't care about the community. Imagine the company grows with their community started to lose communities belief. Before you released the product it's acceptable and with releasing the product you can call them back easily. But I don't want to believe it but if they're thinking when they completed the game and we apricated it and forget everything. I would like to share roughly translate a Turkish proverb "The wolf spends the winter, but does not forget the cold it eats." =)

Anyway if you're still reading. I would like to mention it again, I'm not asking anyone to do the same action as I do. However, it's what I can do now and I believe there is freedom of speech without swearing at people. Don't close yourselves into your palace TW. You know what I meant by this and don't expect me to explain it because Silivri is cold... =) -take it as a joke, please-

So, if you don't mind I need to take my revenge on Lucon.

 

[iRkshz]

I don't want to reply one by one because it's endless arguing and not constructive at all.

Did I say anything about I like or dislike the game? But you're just guessing and judging from your pov which is sad. I did spend 1330 hours since the game released. Plus even most people didn't know the first games of the M&B series, I've been enjoying the previous games as much as I enjoyed the Bannerlord. So, actually, that means at least +10 years plus 1300 hours. If Armağan Yavuz didn't have the vision years and years ago we couldn't have the M&B series. But if the community didn't like the game and keep it alive with mods, forget being able to make Bannerlord, they even can't able dream about it as well. Imagine the M&B series without modding...Take your time and imagine...So, calm down...

1300 hours? only? and you think it gives you the right to consider yourself superior to others? gives you the right to tell developers what to do and what game to implement?

you only have the right to freedom of speech, but not at the expense of others
you only have the right to CRITICAL and you can leave negative feedback, or ASK the developers, or PROPOSE an alternative point of view, but you DO NOT have the right to DEMAND, and moreover, you DO NOT have the right to manipulate the opinions of other players

boy, I played 1400 hours, so go get some rest and stop thinking you're significant - you're not significant

 

[Bloc]

1300 hours? only? and you think it gives you the right to consider yourself superior to others? gives you the right to tell developers what to do and what game to implement?

Nothing in his statement or comment that you quoted says "I played 1300 hours so I'm a big player". So what the hell are you talking about?

Also, even playing 15 mins and buying the game gives him the right to tell developers what to implement. Whether they will follow that suggestion or not is another matter. But he can make suggestions - regardless of how dumb or clever those ideas are. That's how the game industry works.

 

[RichardtheCat]

1300 hours? only? and you think it gives you the right to consider yourself superior to others? gives you the right to tell developers what to do and what game to implement?

you only have the right to freedom of speech, but not at the expense of others
you only have the right to ASK the developers, or PROPOSE an alternative point of view, but you DO NOT have the right to DEMAND, and moreover, you DO NOT have the right to manipulate the opinions of other players

boy, I played 1400 hours, so go get some rest and stop thinking you're significant - you're not significant

Did I say calm down before? I guess I did a couple of times. =)

I did not demand anything. I ask them to be more open. I did not mention the time you guys did. So if I'm not significant, if you're not significant, if the people, the community is not significant who is then? Have you ever heard "to be more royalist than the king"?

At least I know TW will understand what I'm talking about so don't waste my and people's time.

 

[RichardtheCat]

1300 hours? only? and you think it gives you the right to consider yourself superior to others? gives you the right to tell developers what to do and what game to implement?

you only have the right to freedom of speech, but not at the expense of others
you only have the right to CRITICAL and you can leave negative feedback, or ASK the developers, or PROPOSE an alternative point of view, but you DO NOT have the right to DEMAND, and moreover, you DO NOT have the right to manipulate the opinions of other players

boy, I played 1400 hours, so go get some rest and stop thinking you're significant - you're not significant

Boy, I really liked you. =) Let's see who has been demanding to devs?

The links below are your post and who has been doing what you accused me of above? Do you really think the devs don't aware of these issues?

And you mentioned you played the game 1400 which is more than me and you've got the rights to say all those captioned things?

I can swear you think you're the significant one but I can't prove it. I can't but you did already so that's why I can't.

Once and last time call down BOY.

It is NECESSARY to add an indicator of clans Relation​

BORING Dialogue System​

Donate Prisoners BUG​

Suicide AI PROBLEM​

Strange BUG?! -2 relation for all NPCs by the way I loved you use ? and ! together =)​

Food-Prosperity=BUG​

 

[iRkshz]

Boy, I really liked you. =) Let's see who has been demanding to devs?

The links below are your post and who has been doing what you accused me of above? Do you really think the devs don't aware of these issues?

And you mentioned you played the game 1400 which is more than me and you've got the rights to say all those captioned things?

I can swear you think you're the significant one but I can't prove it. I can't but you did already so that's why I can't.

Once and last time call down BOY.

It is NECESSARY to add an indicator of clans Relation​

BORINGDialogue System​

Donate PrisonersBUG​

Suicide AIPROBLEM​

StrangeBUG?!-2 relation for all NPCs by the way I loved you use ? and ! together =)​

Food-Prosperity=BUG​

do you want me to be ashamed?
you have achieved your goal, I am ashamed... I am ashamed to waste my time on people like you - because you are manipulating again, I publish bugs and proposals that I ARGUMENT, but whether to do it or not, let the developers decide, I do not pretend to anything, coz my importance ends at my house with my hamsters

on this I repeat, boy, go rest, you are a discursive manipulator, who wants to be important, but you will not, never

 

[Bloc]

Once and last time call down BOY.

Ignore the guy. You are derailing your own thread for one random person.

About the thread in general, you won't achieve anything significant. Most of these positive voters are probably not in the forum anyway. Some of them are definitely not old Warband players and/or simply doesn't care about Bannerlord. If people felt like they wanted to give negative feedback, they would do that by now. I'm extremely dissatisfied with the current state of Bannerlord, but I haven't voted yet, for example. Because I'm waiting for TW to remove "EA" tag from the product and officially release it. If the official product is also the same as what we have now, then I know what to vote for. I'm guessing half of this forum is also thinking the same. Some still have enormous hope for TW.

 

[iRkshz]

Ignore the guy. You are derailing your own thread for one random person.

ignoring? do it and be happy
But 87% (82%) positive feedback indicates that the players are happy with the result of the game
Are you sure the developers will bend under 13% (18%) of dissatisfied players? it is not commercially viable! Game development is primarily a business...
Do you want to change something? Argue your opinion, prove that you are right, develop your game if you can not only speak, while everyone you can do better... otherwise it’s the crying of boys with great self-esteem

 

[Adrivan]

I just dont know how to feel about all this. I also have things I wish were added, things I wish were done different. But if I don't like the game at the moment, then I don't spend over a thousand hours in a game I don't like. I wait around and play other games while the game is being improved, then come back to see what's new.

Maybe it's because im a developer myself (not games tho) ... but it just doesn't sit well with me when you use a software for 1300 hours, then give it a negative review cause it's not what you expected. OK, give it a negative review after 100 hours maybe. But 1300?

You're not paying a subscription, or a continuous service, to complain 1300 hours later that you're not happy with development. You already got $0.03 / hour price for your gameplay. Super cheap stuff

 

[RichardtheCat]

Ignore the guy. You are derailing your own thread for one random person.

About the thread in general, you won't achieve anything significant. Most of these positive voters are probably not in the forum anyway. Some of them are definitely not old Warband players and/or simply doesn't care about Bannerlord. If people felt like they wanted to give negative feedback, they would do that by now. I'm extremely dissatisfied with the current state of Bannerlord, but I haven't voted yet, for example. Because I'm waiting for TW to remove "EA" tag from the product and officially release it. If the official product is also the same as what we have now, then I know what to vote for. I'm guessing half of this forum is also thinking the same. Some still have enormous hope for TW.

No need for a pointless argument.

As an individual's act, it won't change anything but it's my action. So, that's it. You know sometimes when you're in love you don't think you're making mistake. You even don't see it at all. After time you realise you're still making mistake however you can't change your behaviour. Our situation is like that moments. We talked about that before we don't want the game to stand on modders shoulders. It's too many things to cover by modders. I mean for example your mod, Freelancer. I won't expect that kind of content from TW because of the way they develop the game. That is their choice and I respect and like it. Also when the game meets the basic requirements and you make Freelancer that's what we have been through all those years and enjoy the game. You, modders can change the perspective and we can enjoy the game from the twist you bring into the game. Btw before anyone accuses me to change grown-up individuals mind, as far as I know, we can change our votes later. So, that's why I gave a negative vote. Because it's reality. I do understand your pov and respect it.

 

[Mad Vader]

ignoring? do it and be happy
But 87% (82%) positive feedback indicates that the players are happy with the result of the game
Are you sure the developers will bend under 13% (18%) of dissatisfied players? it is not commercially viable! Game development is primarily a business...
Do you want to change something? Argue your opinion, prove that you are right, develop your game if you can not only speak, while everyone you can do better... otherwise it’s the crying of boys with great self-esteem

Those percentages are average for Steam. They don't mean the game is good, they mean the game is average. You are not a great knower of percentages.

 

[Bloc]

Maybe it's because im a developer myself (not games tho) ... but it just doesn't sit well with me when you use a software for 1300 hours, then give it a negative review cause it's not what you expected. OK, give it a negative review after 100 hours maybe. But 1300?

I'm also a developer ( not games atm but was a game dev previously and no not talking about my mobile games ) and if someone is spending his 1300 hours and still saying that something is not right, it's a red flag. And it should be considered more seriously compared to a person who tried that for 2 mins and says the same thing.

This is not a subscription-based system, you can't measure the amount of fun you take out of the game based on hours. If that was the case, all sandbox natured games would be 10/10 best games in the industry. Or any strategy game would be the best because it's not action-based and you need to spent hundreds of hours just to set up things right for your "playthrough". Do I personally think 1300 is too much? Yeah. I have 570 hours and more than half of it was mod development-related tests probably. So even for me, 1300h is weirdly too much. But it could be that this person had a lot of time and faith in TW. 1300 hours is more or less 3,5 hours for each day and pretty possible if you are not playing any other game and/or don't have the financial state to afford another game. So I don't think "You played 1300 hours you obviously enjoyed it" is not a way to go in this situation - or doesn't necessarily means he has to vote thumbs up.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

[...]Because I'm waiting for TW to remove "EA" tag from the product and officially release it. If the official product is also the same as what we have now, then I know what to vote for. I'm guessing half of this forum is also thinking the same. Some still have enormous hope for TW.

+1 I must be a masochist too because I want to see that day when the tag will be removed.

 

[Adrivan]

So I don't think "You played 1300 hours you obviously enjoyed it" is not a way to go in this situation - or doesn't necessarily means he has to vote thumbs up.

Well... what does playing 1300 hours mean if not that you enjoyed it at least enough to continue playing pretty much every day since release?
He is free to give any review he wants, but my rational thinking is just having a hard time understanding. Maybe im just dumb myself.

 

[RichardtheCat]

I just dont know how to feel about all this. I also have things I wish were added, things I wish were done different. But if I don't like the game at the moment, then I don't spend over a thousand hours in a game I don't like. I wait around and play other games while the game is being improved, then come back to see what's new.

Maybe it's because im a developer myself (not games tho) ... but it just doesn't sit well with me when you use a software for 1300 hours, then give it a negative review cause it's not what you expected. OK, give it a negative review after 100 hours maybe. But 1300?

You're not paying a subscription, or a continuous service, to complain 1300 hours later that you're not happy with development. You already got $0.03 / hour price for your gameplay. Super cheap stuff

Don't get me wrong but did I mentioned any feature we're missing? Not at all. All I'm saying the current status of the game has a lot of things missing and it's okay for the EA process. But there something sounds/seems wrong and it's not just me. Read every single post in the forum. Which I guess you already know. Everyone complains about the status of the game and the way TW treats their own community.

Tbh the time I spend is not a measurement for me. As I said before almost half of it I was trying to learn modding from scratch. Great to hear you're a developer as well. So, please imagine someone who doesn't know anything about modding trying to learn and figure out how to make a different kind of mods. I didn't spend that amount of time just for playing -if I did, I don't think it's weird because Bannerlord is the only game I've been playing. I bought the pc 2017 just for Bannerlord. Imagine my hype at that time =). Anyway, I downloaded lots of mods probably everyone in the forum downloaded. Try to figure out how did modder make it, how can I change, convert and use it. I did a couple of small mods as well. So, it's a learning process as well. People are paying lots of money to learn coding etc. $0.03/hour and my time I spent for it is okay for me. I don't know if it makes sense for you but it's a kind of hobby for me that I can also use in the game and enjoy my end product with the game I liked and have been playing for years.

And the other half I played the game and enjoyed it. The early game is good there are lots of quest etc there. The midgame is okay but it's also still missing things and can be sharpened. The late game is missing a lot and I believe TW already planning to add more things. It's the reason why we started the game from the beginning again and again. As I said this post is neither a negative nor a positive post.

 

[murtega]

I like how people here want this game to be the ultimate one that would put any other publisher in shame to release anything for a decade or two. Best sandbox ever created, best RPG, best RTS, best simulation, etc. Honestly I do too. Even the time I spent playing BL is probably more than any other game I've ever played combined. I don't think the frustration here can go unnoticed by TW, in the end it's their official forum and they must be aware that the reason is players being in the dark. Yet there's not much change in their behavior which does nothing but fueling the flames.

On the other hand, none can deny that the first impression of this game on any new player is very impressive as Warband was on many of us. This lad's reaction sums it up perfectly:



And first impression of the game lasts for many many hours of grind, hence all the recorded hours of play before you realize it gets dull and repetitive after a point.

I wish so badly that they had some sort of competitor. It's like a toxic relationship at the moment.

 

[WhyAmIHere]

There are any number of reasons you might play a game that long and not give it a thumbs up:

1. The reasons Bloc mentioned: can't afford other games and testing stuff (more than half of my far less than 1300 or even 570 hours are me trying to figure out which mod is crashing my game)

2. Playing long enough into the game to get to a mechanic you want to test. This isn't a game where you can test out everything in the first hour. It can take upwards of dozens of hours through a playthrough to get to certain parts of the game. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. Those hours can either be extremely enjoyable or grindy boring nonsense that you tolerate because you want to get to your destination, or even somewhere in between.

3. You might have enjoyed the first few hundred hours but then something changed in the game and you no longer enjoy it in its current state (in which case your enjoyment of the previous few hundred hours are irrelevant because you review a game in its current state). See the term "evangelist alienation".

4. Related to #2 (and mostly unique to EA): Consistent restarts after patches to "get a lay of the land" so to speak to see what's changed. With how many patches there have been that can easily multiply into the hundreds of hours.

 

[Adrivan]

3. You might have enjoyed the first few hundred hours but then something changed in the game and you no longer enjoy it in its current state (in which case your enjoyment of the previous few hundred hours are irrelevant because you review a game in its current state). See the term "evangelist alienation".

Thats where I'm different. I review games based on: was the time I spent playing this game worth my money? If yes, my review is positive. I dont care if 1000 hours later i decide i no longer like it. My review stays positive.

 

[Mad Vader]

Thats where I'm different. I review games based on: was the time I spent playing this game worth my money? If yes, my review is positive. I dont care if 1000 hours later i decide i no longer like it. My review stays positive.

Just like a HIV test. Yay!