[IDEAS WELCOME] Looking for ideas on how to do centralized management

[Mordachai]

We're thinking about doing centralized management in 4.5.  But I keep coming up against the reality that I don't really have a good conception of how it might look.

So I'm opening this up to folks to brain-storm ideas.

I need folks to both think inside and outside of the box.  If you can come up with an idea that fits M&B's interfaces (dialogs, menus, possibly a presentation), then its that much more useful.

On the other hand, sometimes just going for broke can lead me or others to come up with ways to actually translate your abstract cool idea into something practical.  So totally pie-in-the-sky ideas are also welcome.

Bottom line: what do you want from a centralized management system?

 

[corbaer]

By management system do you mean upgrades to fiefs, or something else?

 

[Mordachai]

Yeah - upgrading fiefs.

Like in Civ, you have an actual queue in each town, and you can add or remove buildings and units to/from that queue.

There isn't really a queue in M&B.  I can simulate something like one, with a menu or conversation with your secretary of the interior, for example, with a list of places to manage, and within each place, what building to add to the queue, or to remove the last one on the list.

But is that really what is best?  Or what ideas might folks come up with to make it more intuitive and fun?

 

[corbaer]

Perhaps arrange it so that after any upgrade is purchased, as it is now, you may queue the next one to be built (similar to the existing menu) but the price in denars goes up 25% over what it would have been.  You can queue them all, but for each queued one you pay an escalating premium over the cost it would normally be - and any engineering skill that you gain during a long string of construction is not taken into account.

If you build a Sacrificial Alter now it will be 1500 at your current engineering level.
If you build the messenger post now instead and queue the Alter, the Alter will cost 1875 (x 125%).
If you build the messenger post now, queue the watch tower next then queue the Alter, the Alter will cost 2344 (x 125% x 125%).

This way you opt into having an easier existence, but it is only reasonable when your empire has begun expanding to the point that it's a chore to constantly traverse your lands.

It's not so much a centralized system, as it is a luxury that you start using as your empire becomes sophisticated and wealthy.

 

[jasonxfri13th]

Want this to be stickied?


I would suggest having a work force of builders, determined by population and maybe you can pay for more builders or build a builders guild. When you build a building you can assign a certain amount of builders to the building, builders have salaries so the more builders the shorter it takes but the more money you have to build.
Just to make things easier you could simply use peasants for building stuff, and since you have to pay for builders it would make sense and the amount of workers available should be only around 10-20% since that is about how many people would be fit to build, and in that case the builders guild could shorten build times.

You can build as many buildings as you want at once, but you have to realize you have a limited work force. You might also be able to pay to import immigrant workers, they would not be as effective and would cost more.

 

[sgtalex86]

would it be posible to get better garrisoning options... per castle  i mean if i want 200 men for every basic castle and 1000 for every frontline castle now i actually have to do (1. take castle 2. give it to lord 3. take it back 4. garrison some units 5. give it back to lord
6. repeat bout 20 times result i get my castle with 1000 men but relations with the lord i used for it r around -100  )
and its bit too much work... so if i could have button at marshal at that "garrison 500 archers & 500 melee inf" it would be nice and simple
but it should be spesific(spelling?) for that castle not every castle at once 

 

[froggyluv]

The one thing about centralized government that worries me is making the game too easy. If you can manage all of your fief/towns/castles and Lords from one spot with a few clicks, I forsee a monster player empire. How about a messenger system, that is when issuing a new order to a Lord, town etc, an actual scout party is sent out and must reach it's destination but can be intercepted by the enemy or scared off which would in effect, delay the order until they arrived. Depending on your Messenger Tech level, you would have varying types of messenger from speedy and weak, to brawny but slower. Enemies could even have a sort of counter-intelligence unit that primarily hunt down these messengers and vice-versa -don't know if the stupid native AI would allow this though.

 

[vonmistont]

I want to do this in the form of presentation.
I thought of something like strategic map with small town/castle/town icons and names. After clicking on it a fief picture is oppened. I thought of kind of Heroes of Might and Magic 3 wiew You have pretty picture of village/town/castle, some menus to chose buildings or other options (maybe let's make it that barracks/range/stables/chapters work like trainer skill for respective troop types and we could add option to remotly manage garrison/upgrade troops). When building is build it is shown on the picture, it is composed into it (just like in HoM&M3, I was always in love in this menus, I could just stare at them).
Or we just could use existing meshes to make it easier.

 

[SanDiego]

I would like to see something like capital ingame - let's say the first city player takes - and have an option there "Manage your kingdom". In that menu you would have theese options: "Garrisons" and "Constructions". In each of the there would be a sub-menu with options "Towns", "Villages", and "Castles". There would be list of your fiefs currently having unbuilt project. Then, you could commision a new building with a simple click. And let's say after 2-3 days construction would begin (no internet and phones back then) and you get a message saying "Construction of x in y has begun".
Under the tab of "Garrisons" there would be a list of occupied castles and towns. Clicking on one of the names would bring up a screen saying something like "town/castle of x has y men in garrison, z of whom are ready to upgrade. Current garrison limit is set to xy men." You could have option to modify the garrison cap (increasing and decreasing, thus creating lures for enemy lords).

 

[Rubberduck]

Might seem annoying, but should this include paying fee for this option? To simulate the bureacracy needed to implement your orders. I know it is annoying to tour every castle and village to build things.

 

[mouthnhoof]

A que for upgrades may raise several problems. for example:
1) The time and cost depend on your party engineer skill. If the engineer happens to be knocked out at the time (of setting up the que? actual start of construction?) it will unexpectedly change the cost and time.
2) It can easily and unexpectedly run the player bankrupt, unless you pay at the time of setting up the que.

Perhaps a simpler and more elegant way to do this is to use the strategic map. From there you can click a fief to get a full report on it:
- population
- garrison (just total number, not to clutter)
- List of built improvements
- Currently under construction:

On this report screen, if nothing is under construction you also get the option: "Issue construction of fief improvement", that gives you the build fief improvement menu, like it is now, but without the need to actually be at the location. This makes it very easy to issue the build when you have the money and your engineer is awake. The already implemented report about fiefs that are not building anything makes management very easy.

Perhaps it would also be possible to set the garrison orders (infantry/archers) from here, instead of talking to the Marshal in person.

For the purpose of immersion, I think it would be better if you get this screen by talking to one of your advisors and not opening this screen from anywhere on the map. Makes it more official that you need to talk to your bureaucrats, but both can work.

 

[Tekvorian]

Bottom line: what do you want from a centralized management system?

First of all, I want a complete and fast overview on what fiefs I have, how many population is in there, current health, prosperity etc and what buildins are built in there (and maybe also what could be built as grey icons)

Nearly everything could be done by a representation ( => small icons). Except for e.g. population of course. This should be a number.
If a building has not been built yet, then it is represented by a grey icon. If it is built, then by a color icon.

Example: a black smith has not been built yet. It is represented by a small black smith grey icon. When I click on the icon, I start to built it (a number appears on the icon saying how long it will take until it is done. This number is refreshed every time I check this page). When the building has been completed, it is then represented by a small black smith color icon.

All in all, it must have very high usability. A queue is not really necessary, if you ask me. It would be nice, but don't invest too much time in it, if it is hard to implement. The above overview would be more than enough for fast management.

Btw, in case it has not become clear: This management overview is just one single page. No need for more pages which force you to do unnecessarily more clicks. Just one page where I can issue a command with one click (if you have too many fiefs, then you have to scroll a bit up and down. No big deal). One command = one click = best usability.

 

[Marche]

Hmm...I would like a more decentralized management system instead.

I wouldn't know how to do it, but it would be nice if AI Lords took care of their own Upgrades for Villages and Castles. When I'm a vassal, my King doesn't build stuff for me either. At the same time, it would be nice if AI Lords of the native Kingdoms also upgrade their fiefs. While it's probably possible (I think Native Expansion has it), SoD buildings have certain importances (Like Churches, Barracks etc., which also depends on the Kingdom you choose) that might make it far from ideal to let AI lords take care of it (But on the other hand, you need to keep some individuality to the AI lords too). Next to that, there is the whole money issue, which Lords also already need for their troops. Then there is the whole 'Switch AI Lord out to start construction' work around (But that might be countered by having a bigger penalty to taking away a fief then the bonus you get when you give a fief).

What I'm trying to say, is that when you have a big Kingdom, you shouldn't be able to manage it alone. It's a pain in the ass to do and rightfully so! When you're King, you don't have the time to micromanage everything. That's one of the reasons why you have Lords! To take care of it for you.

Suggested under 'So totally pie-in-the-sky ideas are also welcome.' invite

 

[Mordachai]

@Jason - no need to sticky. 

I wonder if you're right, Marche.  I was about to put up an elaborate post about a presentation, which is interesting, but its a ton of work for something that might be much ado about nothing.

If we simply let the AI manage their own fiefs (very, very do-able), then managing your own, in person, using the existing interfaces, becomes a minor issue, one that doesn't involve enough pain or motivation for us to waste time building this thing when we could instead be focused on building v5 story-line and mechanisms, or finishing off the laws, etc.

I'm certainly not convinced one way or the other... one of the reasons I've been dragging my feet on this

 

[Sapper06]

I think the "let the lords manage thier fiefs" idea is the best.

I recall reading somewhere that there will be an "administration" ability worked into the next update.  If the lords get this ability as well, it could make a difference in fief assignment.

I believe that modding the chancelor menu to include Kingdom wide priorities (IE:  First build economic, then religious, then military, etc...etc...etc... structures) would be the first step. 
Then have the ability to go to each lord or fief and set fief or lord specific priorites.

In addition to building priorities, have garrison/fielding priorites in the same manner.  IE:  Garrison  300/50/100/150 (Max garrisoned/Cavalry/Archers/Infantry ratio) or something along those lines.  Same thing for what armies you want a lord to recruit and field for his non garrison/go to war Army, without the max, just the ratio.

Heck, you could even give faction specific preferences (no more then 25% non faction units)

Make it cost something to set and/or change priorities.  You can manage your realm fast, you can manage your realm well, or you can manage your realm cheaply.  You can only get all of one, and some of one other, but you will have to sacrifice the last one.  Right now we have a lot of cheap, a little of well, and none of fast.  The more streamlined the management system is, the more it has to cost in either cash or detail. 

I say you issue the realm wide management either by cheaply integrating it into caravans (Mail delivery) or by assigning special runners (Pony express) to carry out your orders.  The runner option would cost a lot, and they would appear on the map and could be captured/fought and killed.

Issue the order at a chancellor, then a menu asks how you want the messages delivered:  Caravan (Slow and cheap) or Message runners (Fast and expensive).

Just my 2 cents!