Ideas to fix skirm (maybe tw will use)

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soul_jak

Sergeant at Arms
A list of some ideas I had to improve the skirmish experience

Remove or more likely, heavily reduce speed multiplayer dmg, I believe this will help reduce the rng feel of dmg across the bored making every weapon type give consistent dmg and help reduce throwing weapons one shotting cav and cav couching being less cheeky feeling.

Completely remove block stun from two handers. This (at least to me) is very rng feeling and sometime feels like lag simply because ur character will not swing right away after a block stun which has no visual or audio que hinting that u are stunned, the annoying thing about this is two handed weapons have very quick swings so in a fight with two handers all u can do is block a lot before getting a swing off.

Add a dedicated skirmish class and no stacking throwable perks
all factions should have a dedicated skirmisher class and make all skirmish units have to pick between 3 good javs or one throwing spear (pila) or 5 low dmg javs (meaning this class should not have a ton of throwables)
The big problem I’ve noticed is for empire primarily is there recruit has access to 3 spawns and can bring a pila which has the potential to one shot I think removing all javs from every class but a dedicated skirmish unit and maybe giving this unit a low quality breakable shield will help balance this unit out.

Heavy inf problem fix
across the board heavy inf movement speed need to be increased not fast as light units but fast enough to help maneuver to deal with cav I think also making heavy inf invaluable to being knocked down would make them much more viable when dealing with cav (still able to bump tho) increase spear dmg to cav and increase thrust speed (plz decrease glancing up close with cav)

The cav fix
bump slash is a really cool idea the only issue is the speed multiplier if that’s reduced I think the cheep one shots will be reduced same for couch lanced I think if couch lance reduced dmg but added knock down would make it less of a quick kill but more of a support option, maybe have couch lance also knock cav rider off of cav???

That’s all I had for ideas so far what do u think if u have better idea definitely share
 
Completely remove block stun from two handers. This (at least to me) is very rng feeling and sometime feels like lag simply because ur character will not swing right away after a block stun which has no visual or audio que hinting that u are stunned, the annoying thing about this is two handed weapons have very quick swings so in a fight with two handers all u can do is block a lot before getting a swing off.
I actually messaged NIN3 yesterday with almost this exact issue word for word, and he explained that all weapon produce a stun based on their weight vs the weight of your weapon. It's nothing specific for 2 handers, but I guess naturally the weight difference is much more pronounced. This is negated completely if you pull off an active block and it is always less if you're using a shield.

Anyway I agree completely that it just feels like you've lagged when it happens, and NIN3 said they will look at having some clearer audio cues. I think that needs to happen for most combat mechanics such as active blocks and what-not, it's pretty impossible to tell when they've happened especially in the heat of battle.

Two handed don't need any more advantage than they already have, and this sort of adds onto the pile of why heavy infantry is so weak at the moment.
 
I actually messaged NIN3 yesterday with almost this exact issue word for word, and he explained that all weapon produce a stun based on their weight vs the weight of your weapon. It's nothing specific for 2 handers, but I guess naturally the weight difference is much more pronounced. This is negated completely if you pull off an active block and it is always less if you're using a shield.

Anyway I agree completely that it just feels like you've lagged when it happens, and NIN3 said they will look at having some clearer audio cues. I think that needs to happen for most combat mechanics such as active blocks and what-not, it's pretty impossible to tell when they've happened especially in the heat of battle.

Two handed don't need any more advantage than they already have, and this sort of adds onto the pile of why heavy infantry is so weak at the moment.
I think a big part of the problem players have is that the game mechanics are actually kind of deep and complex, there's almost no visual or audio feedback much of the time, and there's very little other explanation in game.
If I didn't play Warband for years, I would not understand that when I try to hit someone in the back and they are attacking someone else in front of them, the reason that I didn't hit him is because he was somehow able to behind-the-back chamber-block me (which was not possible before...). There's almost no indicator to let you know what happened, and it is not reasonable to assume they chamber-blocked you. They really need to put the "Chamber blocked!!!" text back in, because people don't understand what is happening.
"Active Blocking" on the other hand, I feel is well implemented and illustrated with unique particle effects, its just that the concept is somewhat difficult to explain to new players.
 
That's true, I believe there are sparks when you pull off an active block though they could maybe be more pronounced imo. As for the chambers, I still get the purple "Chamber Blocked!" when it happens - infact it seems to always pop up twice for some reason - so maybe there is a setting in options to toggle that?

I agree that the mechanics and actually really quite deep and complex and a lot of it really fun for that matter, but like you said there needs to be clear feedback because there's countless times death have just left me confused and perplexed on what actually happened. I think the longer the community exists, and the more information the developers give us the better and clearer it will all become :smile:
 
That's true, I believe there are sparks when you pull off an active block though they could maybe be more pronounced imo. As for the chambers, I still get the purple "Chamber Blocked!" when it happens - infact it seems to always pop up twice for some reason - so maybe there is a setting in options to toggle that?

I agree that the mechanics and actually really quite deep and complex and a lot of it really fun for that matter, but like you said there needs to be clear feedback because there's countless times death have just left me confused and perplexed on what actually happened. I think the longer the community exists, and the more information the developers give us the better and clearer it will all become :smile:
That's interesting, I swear I stopped seeing it. Maybe it is only off for Captain mode? It happens so rarely maybe I'm just not noticing it.
The active block "sparks" for metal weapons or "woodchips" for wooden hafted weapons are great, but a lot of the combat system's features don't have nearly as noticeable feedback.
I understand from a development standpoint why there's not more polish, as the systems are still very much in flux, but at the same time the community doesn't understand the systems so I'm not sure how useful a lot of player feedback is without some more "user experience" features to help them grok what's happening.
 
I actually messaged NIN3 yesterday with almost this exact issue word for word, and he explained that all weapon produce a stun based on their weight vs the weight of your weapon. It's nothing specific for 2 handers, but I guess naturally the weight difference is much more pronounced. This is negated completely if you pull off an active block and it is always less if you're using a shield.

Anyway I agree completely that it just feels like you've lagged when it happens, and NIN3 said they will look at having some clearer audio cues. I think that needs to happen for most combat mechanics such as active blocks and what-not, it's pretty impossible to tell when they've happened especially in the heat of battle.

Two handed don't need any more advantage than they already have, and this sort of adds onto the pile of why heavy infantry is so weak at the moment.
It's a rubbish mechanic that shares the same flawed principle of crushthrough.
 
I would also question that active blocks completely negate the stun-effect. At least, there's plenty of times the sparks come off my block after an attempted active block, and my return swing animation is still delayed/stunned. Are we sure that the particle effects always indicate a successful active block AND that active blocks completely negate the stun from a heavier weapon?
 
I don't actually know if the sparks have anything to do with active blocks, it was just an observation I made a few months back after like a couple minutes testing. I could be completely wrong, and NIN3 said way back then that he wasn't even sure if active produces sparks.

I'd question whether shields really affect the block stun much either, unless it's only by a negligible amount. I could certainly feel a lot of block stun today when I was playing with shield versus certain weapons.

I also wonder how small the time window is for a block to be considered active, as now that pretty much all players use feints you have to be pretty pin-point precise with your block timings so it would almost be like most successful blocks would naturally be active.
 
Remove or more likely, heavily reduce speed multiplayer dmg, I believe this will help reduce the rng feel of dmg across the bored making every weapon type give consistent dmg and help reduce throwing weapons one shotting cav and cav couching being less cheeky feeling.
It could probably be toned down a little sure.
Completely remove block stun from two handers. This (at least to me) is very rng feeling and sometime feels like lag simply because ur character will not swing right away after a block stun which has no visual or audio que hinting that u are stunned, the annoying thing about this is two handed weapons have very quick swings so in a fight with two handers all u can do is block a lot before getting a swing off.
Agree, it's especially jarring to see stuns come from quick hits and side swings, it doesn't look or 'feel' right. In Warband, stuns only occurred from held attacks and were more frequent on overheads, this was more intuitive as it felt more weighty to deflect a held overhead axe, than the current issue of dancing 2h jesters swinging their axe as light as a feather but stunning your giant shield.
Add a dedicated skirmish class and no stacking throwable perks
all factions should have a dedicated skirmisher class and make all skirmish units have to pick between 3 good javs or one throwing spear (pila) or 5 low dmg javs (meaning this class should not have a ton of throwables)
The big problem I’ve noticed is for empire primarily is there recruit has access to 3 spawns and can bring a pila which has the potential to one shot I think removing all javs from every class but a dedicated skirmish unit and maybe giving this unit a low quality breakable shield will help balance this unit out.
I agree on removing the option of having the throwing nukes and the weaker throwings at the same time, but still think some other mechanical changes are needed to address throwing (such as accuracy and shield coverage).
Heavy inf problem fix
across the board heavy inf movement speed need to be increased not fast as light units but fast enough to help maneuver to deal with cav I think also making heavy inf invaluable to being knocked down would make them much more viable when dealing with cav (still able to bump tho) increase spear dmg to cav and increase thrust speed (plz decrease glancing up close with cav)
Disagree here, heavy inf are actually pretty fast, they just feel sluggish due to the weight of shields. I think overall the various movement speed interactions - movement in combat, weight, and movement disparities - need tweaked and tested. Flat increases or decreases to classes is not enough.
The cav fix
bump slash is a really cool idea the only issue is the speed multiplier if that’s reduced I think the cheep one shots will be reduced same for couch lanced I think if couch lance reduced dmg but added knock down would make it less of a quick kill but more of a support option, maybe have couch lance also knock cav rider off of cav???
Cav need slowed down, their stabs need to reset slower or have some form of stun when blocked, and horses need to rear each other up.
 
I played some matches, game totally crap, starting from gameplay tbh. The delay I found in blocking swinging and the speed in changing weapon makes it frustrating. Game meant for singleplayer not competitive where realism can go down the drain. I saw cavalry getting reared and in 2 seconds changing directions and escaping with the W double tap. I still don't understand how the spam/double swing works, as it seems totally random. I am still scared for the sound of doom bug that I heard still appears from time to time. Now I am thinking its just not the management fault, probably I, with 0 tech experience, can develop a better game.
 
I actually messaged NIN3 yesterday with almost this exact issue word for word, and he explained that all weapon produce a stun based on their weight vs the weight of your weapon. It's nothing specific for 2 handers, but I guess naturally the weight difference is much more pronounced. This is negated completely if you pull off an active block and it is always less if you're using a shield.

Anyway I agree completely that it just feels like you've lagged when it happens, and NIN3 said they will look at having some clearer audio cues. I think that needs to happen for most combat mechanics such as active blocks and what-not, it's pretty impossible to tell when they've happened especially in the heat of battle.

Two handed don't need any more advantage than they already have, and this sort of adds onto the pile of why heavy infantry is so weak at the moment.
Could still reduce the weight modifier to level it out more. It sometimes makes it super clunky if the input gets eaten by the stun (at least on some patch during EA it was like this on some weapons). Or they lengthen the input duration a little bit... as long as the char doesnt start attacking at random times then...
 
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