Ideas on countering the Khuzaits

[bansource]

I've been playing as a Vlandian vassal for 50 hours now. I have no intentions of swtiching factions or building my own kingdom (since I'm too lazy to assign fiefs and please every clan) My clan is tier 5 now and my troop composition is 50% heavy Vlandian banner knight/ vanguard, 20% Vlandian sergeant/ legionaries and 30% sharpshooters/ imperial crossbows. I recently unlocked disciplinarian and am currently focusing on recruiting highwaymen into vlandian champions.

As for the kingdom of Vlandia, we're close to annexing all Sturgian lands, a majority of the western empire and have started to box in and annex the Battanians. On the other side of the map, the Khuzaits have completely destroyed the Southern empire. The Battanians originally annexed the entire northern empire, but had their lands conquered by the Khuzaits, giving us ample oppurtunities to snatch their towns and castles unopposed.Now we border the Khuzaits near Epicrotea and war broke out. We have roughly even strength, after checking the kingdom diplomacy tab.

I am not familiar with Khuzait army compositions and would like to have some insight on how to counter them. Should I change my army composition? If so, then how? There are also battle formations that I should consider, should I ask my infantry to form a circle and my archers to form a square inside? Or do I play defensively? Skirmish with crossbowmen and retreat into infantry shield walls if needed? Or, are their armies like the Aserai? I need information and ideas on how to counter them so we don't end up like the South and Battania.

 

[Medivhtratos]

First, you must know their strength, thats their horse archers/cav at tier 2= very mobile. Second, Don't think about autobattles. Third, you will see in battles that they always rush forward with their horse archers, so a charge from your side will always end in chaos cause your men(melee) run in all directions to get the horse archers= break in formations. Wait in a corner of map and kill their horse archers with ranged and cav " assaults" = first defensively yeah. After that it's a normal fight. But as you had given the information about the overall strength difference it will get a lot harder to win against them, when they come with a 2000 or 3000 men army, cause the horse archers will spawn during the fight also and rip your formations by then. So you must have a good overview sine the cycling of their horse archers will irritate your men over the whole battle. Their infantry isnt realy a problem, but their amount of riding troops are. At the end consider also their speed bonus on the campaign map. That's also a pain in the ass, since the can escape or engage an enemy better as any other faction.

 

[Gandamula]

The first wave of horse archers allways came from your left side, for obvious reason, they handle the bow in left hand, so place your cavalry in that side, when they approach send some cavalry after them, the rest of their army will made a frontal attack you just have to put archers in front and infantry just behind, when the enemy is almost at you send a infantry attack order. It's easy. Don't try to auto results.

 

[bansource]

Don't worry, I never auto resolve, it takes away all the fun anyways. So what you're saying is, I should rely less on my cavalry charges and focus on playing as defensive as possible with my archers and infantry? If so, any formations that you recommend using? Is forming a circle with infantry and placing archers inside a good strategy? I don't think terrain will help either, since the North empire lands are flat terrain. However, like warband, I reckon defending on hilly terrain can mitigate their mobility advantage.

 

[bansource]

I see, so just use the same strategy as I always use. Pepper them with crossbow bolts, then move up the infantry when necessary. It's a shame the AI doesn't know how to properly control my cavalry whenever I press F6, they just charge straight into the enemy even though they are out-numbered. I'll try to command them point-to-point, using wedge formation to counter their horse archers.

The first wave of horse archers allways came from your left side, for obvious reason, they handle the bow in left hand, so place your cavalry in that side, when they approach send some cavalry after them, the rest of their army will made a frontal attack you just have to put archers in front and infantry just behind, when the enemy is almost at you send a infantry attack order. It's easy. Don't try to auto results.

 

[Apocal]

I've been playing as a Vlandian vassal for 50 hours now. I have no intentions of swtiching factions or building my own kingdom (since I'm too lazy to assign fiefs and please every clan) My clan is tier 5 now and my troop composition is 50% heavy Vlandian banner knight/ vanguard, 20% Vlandian sergeant/ legionaries and 30% sharpshooters/ imperial crossbows. I recently unlocked disciplinarian and am currently focusing on recruiting highwaymen into vlandian champions.
...

I am not familiar with Khuzait army compositions and would like to have some insight on how to counter them. Should I change my army composition? If so, then how?

50% heavy cav is perfect for countering Khuzaits.

There are also battle formations that I should consider, should I ask my infantry to form a circle and my archers to form a square inside? Or do I play defensively? Skirmish with crossbowmen and retreat into infantry shield walls if needed? Or, are their armies like the Aserai? I need information and ideas on how to counter them so we don't end up like the South and Battania.

You want to anchor your formation on terrain that blocks line of sight to prevent their horse archers from getting a full 360 degrees of arrow on your troops. Sometimes that's on the military crest of a hill so the actual crest will cover their backs. Other times that's with one flank against a huge boulder. Other times you can shelter in a wadi.

Beyond immediate tactics, one of the best things you can do is occasionally show up to sieges with your party and jump in as the fight starts. Other good things are consistently raiding the villages of towns near the frontline; Khuzaits -- even with their speed advantage -- still have pretty slow moving doomstacks and those doomstacks eat a lot of food. They'll return to those towns to replenish their food supply but if the town has very little on the market, the army won't have enough to go on the offensive.

 

[Lord Bryggan]

As Guadamula said, they always charge on your left. Unfortunately, they don't give you much time to set up your men.

But if you are lucky and your army spawns with a natural obstacle on your left you can sometimes trap them. I form my archers in a vertical line and put my infantry in a square at the top of the line, and keep my cavalry on the right. Once the enemy HA charges in, I circle around with my cavalry and attack them from behind, while also ordering my infantry to attack.

The horse archers will try retreat but will be slowed down by your infantry and cavalry while your archers fire into them. Eventually they will escape, then I order everyone back to position. Don't chase them too far with your cav, since every unhorsed man is essentially dead.

Rinse and repeat, but keep an eye out for their foot soldiers. Once they arrive, just go into regular battle formations and use your cav to protect your flanks.

 

[Aeddes]

I always run with infantary and archers only (40/60%), no horses.

Horse archers are trouble only on open field.

Against them, run back and try to reach map border (the red border).

Put archers (loose) at border, and infantary (shield wall) ahead.

Horse archers always (at least for me) attack counter clockwise, and never cross red border.

They will focus on shield wall and bump at border, making them an easy target to archers.

It's a cheat (imo), but HA are OP anyway. So, we work with the tools we have.

 

[Apocal]

I always run with infantary and archers only (40/60%), no horses.
...
It's a cheat (imo), but HA are OP anyway. So, we work with the tools we have.

 

[Dreed89]

Without map border exploit:

I haven't played against horse archers recently as in my current playthrough I am with Kuhuzaits, but from my former playthroughs, I used to lead my cavalry of let's say 40-50% of my army clash head on with enemy horse archers on my left side. Enemy HA always approach from our left, so it is easy to predict with current AI. Once our cavalry and their HA clash, then their other units will start to advance and regular fight shall occur.

Now they may have more HA and their cavalry bugging your cavalry but in that case you will need more cavalry yourself. Since player's cavalry is generally higher tier, it is not a problem. If AI also had all top tier HA and cavalry, maybe these tactics would not work but it does not happen with current enemy army balance and composition.

 

[Apocal]

Without map border exploit:

I haven't played against horse archers recently as in my current playthrough I am with Kuhuzaits, but from my former playthroughs, I used to lead my cavalry of let's say 40-50% of my army clash head on with enemy horse archers on my left side. Enemy HA always approach from our left, so it is easy to predict with current AI. Once our cavalry and their HA clash, then their other units will start to advance and regular fight shall occur.

It still works exactly like this.

 

[Dabos37]

The easiest way to defeat Khuzaits is using their same tactic. A lot of horse archers and foot archers, this is all you need. Playing as Vlandia, just keep your current army and recruit Khuzaits prisioners until you get tons of hiorse archers and they you will be able to defeat them pretty easy. The better tactic is waiting the Khuzait skirmishers coming to you (this always happens) and kill all of them with your HA and foort archers while avoinding them flanking you.

 

[KingEroc1st]

I am not familiar with Khuzait army compositions and would like to have some insight on how to counter them.

First of all, whenever you are battling people in the open field there's the power check to see if they will charge you as the battle starts, Khuzaits have the most horse archers and most cavalry (maybe tied 1st place with vlandia) so their charge is quick and strong. you don't want this to happen ever. the way to prevent it is to have a more powerful army. that will ensure the enemy stays put in the beginning assuming a defensive position, allowing you to set up your formations and battle effectively.

however, the enemy will still harass you with his horse archers continuously from the beginning and with the Khuzaits it's like 20% of their army. their movement patter is always coming around your left flank. they'll attempt to circle behind your forces and shoot at you. you can send cavalry at them to push them back. they'll trigger a retreat command the moment any cavalry force closes in on them. sometimes i just run toward them by myself and it does the trick. this will buy you some time in the beginning of a battle. remember i told you they harass continually? they'll ride back to their formations and come again in a minute. but you'll be ready this time

have your archers in loose formation at the cress of a hill. this gives them optimal range and line of fire. have your infantry in shield wall at the base of the hill. honestly they won't get involved right now. both formations facing forward so when they come harass again your troops won't rotate. have your cavalry facing slightly left in line formation in the direction enemy horse archers are coming from on your left flank. if you can hide them behind a little hill that's best. tell them to charge when you see enemy horse archers get close so they clash into them, they'll get a few kills and send the enemy to retreat again, don't chase too far, reposition the cavs back and wait for the next enemy wave. rinse and repeat this until you've killed all their horse archers. might be a good idea to conserve arrows on your archers to only fire 1-2 volleys when enemy are super close.

after this, the enemy will be sitting far in the distance, with his archers and infantry in the middle and 2 groups of cavalry on either side. at this point you can systematically kill his cavs from the sides. here i usually use horse archers but you do the same with normal archers they'll just take longer to get places. i park my horse archers about 150m away from the enemy cav on the left flank, and my cavalry about 100 away from them. hide them behind terrain whenever possible. then i charge personally at the enemy left flank, they'll proceed to chase me, i retreat towards my archers and tell them to fire while charging my cavs as the enemy chasing me into my "killing field". of course this time your forces are much closer to theirs so you want to control you cavs more and not over commit. the enemy will even out their left and right flanks. basically rinse and repeat until you kill all his cavs.

using this method you can destroy hundreds of horse archers and cavalry with less than 10% of that in losses. and now they just have their Khuzaid infantry and archers. you can charge your army in there to finish them off or fire from a distance to draw them and kill them with high ground advantage. horse archers are excellent at this job, i always have at least a few of them to help me rain arrows at the enemy from distance in order to draw their charge at my fortified position.

 

[Blynjubitr]

Try to make peace with them and accept that they are superior. There is literally no other way.

 

[Eugene Shutto]

I would say - archers/crossbowman in loose formation on the top of a hill. Pikeman in loose formation. ( I use to sent menavlions in loose formation on left flank and charge , Khuzaits not happy about it) . Sturgian troops are a lot of spearmans with a shield. Or may be javeline in da face ? Must be spicy.
Anyway, if they have a horde of horse archers , there will always be casualties.
Anyway , fighting Khuzaits is very interesting, they are decent foes.

 

[Fell]

I typically use horse archers against them (I keep a fair number to fend off their attacks).

I am still waiting for the changes that will prevent cavalry from pushing through any and all formations without speed reductions (currently a horse will push through like men are just abnormally long grass patches... ).

And for spear/pikemen to actually use them intelligently against cavalry attacks, while its currently very, very hit/miss....

I quite like and prefer vlandian troops despite always choosing empire character culture and for my kingdom's culture. Honestly I don't think imperial troops have anything special going for them (I just seem them as 'the default').

I think Khuzait, or any faction largely composed of quickly leveled cavalry (second tier from general recruit), will be strong until spearmen and spear formations are fixed/added, respectively.

 

[Apocal]

I think Khuzait, or any faction largely composed of quickly leveled cavalry (second tier from general recruit), will be strong until spearmen and spear formations are fixed/added, respectively.

I doubt spearwall formations are going to do much against horse archers.

 

[Fell]

It helps when they can't push though the formations so easily. Didn't say it would solve it.

 

[ceprast]

The Khuzaits are easy to fight actually because outside of auto resolve cav suck. Use 50% ranged, 30-40% IN and the remainder a small bodyguard of cav you will personally lead.

Khuzait always send horse archers to skirmish, they are easily killed by missile infantry. Especially if you use a small amount of your own cav to pin them in place to get shot at. The best way to do this is the following. They always attack your left flank and try to move clockwise around while shooting because that is best for bows. So anchor your left flank on something impassable, when they approach they will slow to a stop before turning and running away giving your archers more time to shoot at stationary targets. You can prolong this by placing your cav on the right flank, as the HA get close you lead your cav forward and then behind the enemy HA, that way when they attempt to return to their lines they go thru your cav. Not only will you get free stabs with your long pointy at them but it will slow them down more and allow your archers even more time to kill them. This is what I mean by using your cav to pin them. If you can't anchor your left flank then simply have your cav move counter-clockwise and you will still run into the HA's as they attempt to circle your troops while shooting at them.

You need to deal with HA before you can attack because as some here have previously mentioned the AI sucks and if you tell your guys to attack they will scatter trying to chase down the HA's instead of attacking the main body of the Khuzait. The good news is I've usually found that once the HA's take significant casualties the rest of the Khuzaits will attack regardless of anything else which makes it fairly easy since you can just tell your lads to stand their ground and your archers do the rest.

 

[Apocal]

It helps when they can't push though the formations so easily. Didn't say it would solve it.

Horse archers don't push through formations -- well, some of them do, but they already die pretty quick in that case. The AI is silly at times and the skirmish on mount command has HAs doing ridiculously dumb **** so they are easy to catch, but the moment they swap to charge, a spearwall is going to get feathered from every direction its shields don't cover.

edit:
When I say "swap to charge" I mean the "Charge" command, which makes HAs circle around the enemy. Formation IV won't ever actually charge until they run out of arrows and not on an organized basis even then. It is just whoever runs out of arrows first will go from circling to diving in all by themselves ?