[IDEA] Leatherworking

[EuchreJack]

After havesting several furs and hides, I was thinking that a leatherworking crafting skill would be a nice addition.  It would convert hides (and possibly fur, depending on the item) into varying types of leather armor, gloves, caps, and boots.

Considering that leather armor is viable until the end game (with Cuir Boir having an armor rating of 50), this would be a valuable addition to the current skills, and would complement well the current smithing skill, which tends not to make armor until the player is quite skilled.

 

[Cernunos]

It sounds really good, thanks for sharing. Just to let you know, adding a new crafting skill (skill + guild + crafting recipes) is a long and tedious process, as my coding ways are messy at best. But this is definitely on a todo list of a V1.0, along with a probable reworking of the crafting system. However, I am still deep in the coding of the shamanism feature, the neandertals tribes quests and reputation effects, and the coding of both the global and local epidemics and disease, and their proper effects on the world. So my schedule is quite busy now.
However, Leatherworking will be a great addition to the crafting of Rigale.

 

[EuchreJack]

Glad you like it.  Sorry that coding crafting is so messy.  Looking forward to those other features you mentioned, far more than leatherworking.  Glad to see it added to feature list. 

 

[Cernunos]

Could you make me a list of the objects that the player could craft please with leather working ? Make it as precise as possible, so I don't have to go through all the items in the game to know what should belong to a leather working skill. The game reference of the objects would help me a lot. PLease make it relevant, only broad categories of items for now.

Tx in advance.

 

[EuchreJack]

Behold, the power of leather!

I'll have that list posted shortly.  Looking over leather, hide, and fur armor (I clumped them all into leatherworking), it would seem that the player might benefit from having better gloves, caps, and shields added.  However, the masterwork tag would likely make the existing items quite competitive.

 

[Cernunos]

I already added the leatherworking skill and guild tonight. I added the recipes for basic leather work (raw leather into leatherwork and furs), and will use your list to complete the recipes. Please try to arrange them in order of difficulty (overall value ?), it will help me.
Tx in advance.

 

[EuchreJack]

Ok, here is the list of all leather, hide, and fur items in the game.  The post above shows what they all look like.  After posting the total list, I'll try to narrow down exactly what the player might like to make.

Item # - Name (item name)
163 - Leather_Gloves (itm_leather_gloves)
172 - Hide_Boots (itm_hide_boots)
175 - Leather_Boots (itm_leather_boots)
176 - Splinted_Leather_Greaves (itm_splinted_leather_greaves)
178 - Splinted_Greaves (itm_splinted_greaves)
182 - Khergit_Leather_Boots (itm_khergit_leather_boots)
184 - Sarranid_Leather_Boots (itm_sarranid_boots_b)
198 - Khergit_Leather_Lady_Dress (itm_khergit_lady_dress_b)
205 - Nomad_Armor (itm_nomad_armor)
206 - Khergit_Armor (itm_khergit_armor)
207 - Leather_Jacket (itm_leather_jacket)
208 - Rawhide_Coat (itm_rawhide_coat)
209 - Leather_Armor (itm_leather_armor)
210 - Fur_Coat (itm_fur_coat)
212 - Leather_Coat (itm_leather_coat)
217 - Hide_Coat (itm_hide_coat)
225 - Hide_Armor (itm_hide_armor)
244 - Leather_Apron (itm_leather_apron)
246 - Leather_Vest (itm_leather_vest)
247 - Steppe_Armor (itm_steppe_armor)
253 - Leather_Jerkin (itm_leather_jerkin)
257 - Tribal_Warrior_Outfit (itm_tribal_warrior_outfit)
256 - Padded_Leather (itm_padded_leather)
259 - Studded_Leather_Coat (itm_studded_leather_coat)
271 - Banded_Armor (itm_banded_armor)
272 - Cuir_Bouilli (itm_cuir_bouilli)
277 - Pelt_Coat (itm_pelt_coat)
287 - Sarranid_Leather_Armor (itm_sarranid_leather_armor)
312 - Fur_Hat (itm_fur_hat)
320 - Leather_Cap (itm_leather_cap)
325 - Leather_Warrior_Cap (itm_leather_warrior_cap)
338 - Khergit_Lady_Leather_Hat (itm_khergit_lady_hat_b)
347 - Nordic_Leather_Helmet (itm_nordic_archer_helmet)
348 - Nordic_Leather_Helmet (itm_nordic_veteran_archer_helmet)
353 - Cap_with_Fur (itm_vaegir_fur_cap)
497 - Fur_Covered_Shield (itm_fur_covered_shield)
500 - Leather_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_leather_covered_round_shield)
501 - Hide_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_hide_covered_round_shield)
584 - Light_Leather (itm_light_leather)
585 - Light_Leather_Boots (itm_light_leather_boots)

EDIT: Added back in Splinted Greaves.  It's debatable, but it appears to be a leather boot with metal strapped onto its front.  So it's leatherworking.  Honestly, it's about 8 points stronger than any other existing leather boot, so in my mind, it needed to go back in.

 

[EuchreJack]

Should I clump them by item type, such as shields, leather armor, fur armor, hide armor, and "bonus items" (where I put the lady's hat and other clothing that the player might like to create for fun)?

Actually, it sounds like it would be easier for you if I arranged them in a strict list of difficulty.  I'll do that.

I've got 37 items currently.  I'll see how many are present if I exclude faction-specific items.  Unfortunately, that means the player won't be able to craft lady's dresses or lady's hats...

28 items excluding the faction-specific ones.  Is that too many?

 

[EuchreJack]

I've excluded a few more.  For deciding what to remove, I found it useful to sort the items by type, then rank them, so I'll post that list now.

The first item in each catagory is the least useful, and the last is the most.

Shields:
501 - Hide_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_hide_covered_round_shield)
500 - Leather_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_leather_covered_round_shield)
497 - Fur_Covered_Shield (itm_fur_covered_shield)

Fur Armor:
277 - Pelt_Coat (itm_pelt_coat)
210 - Fur_Coat (itm_fur_coat)

Leather Armor:
207 - Leather_Jacket (itm_leather_jacket)
244 - Leather_Apron (itm_leather_apron)
246 - Leather_Vest (itm_leather_vest)
253 - Leather_Jerkin (itm_leather_jerkin)
584 - Light_Leather (itm_light_leather)
256 - Padded_Leather (itm_padded_leather)
257 - Tribal_Warrior_Outfit (itm_tribal_warrior_outfit)
259 - Studded_Leather_Coat (itm_studded_leather_coat)
271 - Banded_Armor (itm_banded_armor)
272 - Cuir_Bouilli (itm_cuir_bouilli)

Hide Armor:
208 - Rawhide_Coat (itm_rawhide_coat)
205 - Nomad_Armor (itm_nomad_armor)

Hats:
312 - Fur_Hat (itm_fur_hat)
320 - Leather_Cap (itm_leather_cap)
325 - Leather_Warrior_Cap (itm_leather_warrior_cap)

Boots:
172 - Hide_Boots (itm_hide_boots)
175 - Leather_Boots (itm_leather_boots)
176 - Splinted_Leather_Greaves (itm_splinted_leather_greaves)
178 - Splinted_Greaves (itm_splinted_greaves)

Gloves:
163 - Leather_Gloves (itm_leather_gloves)

Now, I'll try to make a list combining them all, based on pure value.  I'm liable to weigh the gloves heavier than they would be based on pure price, due to their usefulness and added difficulty of making gloves versus armor.

 

[EuchreJack]

Ok, here is the final list.  Ranked mostly by price, but with some items shifted based on usefulness.  From easiest to hardest:

277 - Pelt_Coat (itm_pelt_coat)
312 - Fur_Hat (itm_fur_hat)
208 - Rawhide_Coat (itm_rawhide_coat)
320 - Leather_Cap (itm_leather_cap)
205 - Nomad_Armor (itm_nomad_armor)
172 - Hide_Boots (itm_hide_boots)
207 - Leather_Jacket (itm_leather_jacket)
501 - Hide_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_hide_covered_round_shield)
244 - Leather_Apron (itm_leather_apron)
210 - Fur_Coat (itm_fur_coat)
325 - Leather_Warrior_Cap (itm_leather_warrior_cap)
246 - Leather_Vest (itm_leather_vest)
500 - Leather_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_leather_covered_round_shield)
163 - Leather_Gloves (itm_leather_gloves)
175 - Leather_Boots (itm_leather_boots)
253 - Leather_Jerkin (itm_leather_jerkin)
176 - Splinted_Leather_Greaves (itm_splinted_leather_greaves)
497 - Fur_Covered_Shield (itm_fur_covered_shield)
584 - Light_Leather (itm_light_leather)
256 - Padded_Leather (itm_padded_leather)
257 - Tribal_Warrior_Outfit (itm_tribal_warrior_outfit)
259 - Studded_Leather_Coat (itm_studded_leather_coat)
178 - Splinted_Greaves (itm_splinted_greaves)
271 - Banded_Armor (itm_banded_armor)
272 - Cuir_Bouilli (itm_cuir_bouilli)

 

[EuchreJack]

And here is the list with suggested material types:

277 - Pelt_Coat (itm_pelt_coat) Fur
312 - Fur_Hat (itm_fur_hat) Fur
208 - Rawhide_Coat (itm_rawhide_coat) Hides
320 - Leather_Cap (itm_leather_cap) Leather
205 - Nomad_Armor (itm_nomad_armor) Hides
172 - Hide_Boots (itm_hide_boots) Hides
207 - Leather_Jacket (itm_leather_jacket) Leather
501 - Hide_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_hide_covered_round_shield) Hides and Wood
244 - Leather_Apron (itm_leather_apron) Leather
210 - Fur_Coat (itm_fur_coat) Fur
325 - Leather_Warrior_Cap (itm_leather_warrior_cap) Leather
246 - Leather_Vest (itm_leather_vest) Leather
500 - Leather_Covered_Round_Shield (itm_leather_covered_round_shield) Leather and Wood
163 - Leather_Gloves (itm_leather_gloves) Leather
175 - Leather_Boots (itm_leather_boots) Leather
253 - Leather_Jerkin (itm_leather_jerkin) Leather
176 - Splinted_Leather_Greaves (itm_splinted_leather_greaves) Leather and Iron
497 - Fur_Covered_Shield (itm_fur_covered_shield) Fur and Wood
584 - Light_Leather (itm_light_leather) Leather
256 - Padded_Leather (itm_padded_leather) Leather
257 - Tribal_Warrior_Outfit (itm_tribal_warrior_outfit) Leather
259 - Studded_Leather_Coat (itm_studded_leather_coat) Leather and Iron
178 - Splinted_Greaves (itm_splinted_greaves) Leather and Iron
271 - Banded_Armor (itm_banded_armor) Leather and Iron
272 - Cuir_Bouilli (itm_cuir_bouilli) Leather and Iron

 

[Cernunos]

This is really great, thanks, I will be adding them now.

There also probably should be a weaver skill of some sort...

 

[Cernunos]

Any idea of weapons that could fall in the leather worker category ?

 

[Cernunos]

As for the faction specific ones, I could pretty easily add this feature to the craft, so go ahead. You did a really great job in the list so far.

But, as for the factions specific, should it be tied to the place where the player currently is, or to the faction of the player, or maybe to some kind of recipes. Actually, tying the faction specific items to the place the character is currently in would be by far the easiest. I can, however, with some more work, tie it to the object recipe (and thus, the player). Last and hardest would be to make some distinct recipe for it.

to summary:
easiest: tie the faction specific objet to the location the player is currently crafting (and player skill level)
middle: tie the faction specific object to the player current faction (and player skill level)
hardest: tie the faction specific object to a recipe (and player skill level). The player would have to learn the recipe to be able to produce the object. One of the hard and more time consumming part would be to find the proper way to give the recipe to the player, and implement it in game.

 

[EuchreJack]

For faction-specific items, it sounds like a lot of work for 7 or so items total, only one of which is any improvement over what can currently be made at the highest tier.  And not all factions have faction-specific items.  Generally, each faction-specific item is only one or two armor points higher than a comparable item in the current list.

Regarding weapons: Until you mod in whips, I can think of no weapons that are made of leather. 

As I was making the list, I was thinking about a weaving craft.  The original list even included wool items.  But ultimately, armor that can actually protect the player and their companions is made of leather and/or iron.  So, the ability to make wool and linen items really isn't useful.  And the most expensive wool or linen clothing sells for 500 max in its basic form.  Not a lot of money to made, relative to the Coat of Plates Money Machine.

Speaking of Coat of Plates, it makes so much money, and is such a powerful item, you could probably up the number of bars of iron needed to make it.  Even at double the iron cost, it would still be worth travelling the land to make as many as possible.  But it's such a good source of money, and such a good item, that I'm certainly in no hurry for it to be balanced...

 

[Cernunos]

Ok, thanks for these insights.
The leathecraft with all your recipes items is added (and should be tried of course).
I am very sorry  , but I try to balance the game, and I don't want an all powerful money making item, although the crafting system as it exists does this. I will increase the required number of iron, increase the crafting time for the coat of arms. And check the crafing system so that the top quality items are hard to create, even for a Master smith.

So I will concentrate on epidemics now, (I am making good progress )

 

[EuchreJack]

For completeness, I've compiled a list of faction-specific items.  I also missed one item before, a fur cap.

EDIT: Actually, it was a felt cap, which is slightly different than fur, so I originally left it out.  But based on my wikipedia knowledge, it seems to be close enough to fit.

 

[EuchreJack]

Missing item:
577 - Felt_Steppe_Cap (itm_felt_steppe_cap) Fur
It should go between Fur Coat and Warrior Cap

Khergit items:
182 - Khergit_Leather_Boots (itm_khergit_leather_boots) Leather
198 - Khergit_Leather_Lady_Dress (itm_khergit_lady_dress_b) Leather
206 - Khergit_Armor (itm_khergit_armor) Hides
338 - Khergit_Lady_Leather_Hat (itm_khergit_lady_hat_b) Leather

Sarranid items:
183 - Sarranid_Shoes (itm_sarranid_shoes_b) Leather
184 - Sarranid_Leather_Boots (itm_sarranid_boots_b) Leather
287 - Sarranid_Leather_Armor (itm_sarranid_leather_armor) Leather

Vaegir item:
353 - Cap_with_Fur (itm_vaegir_fur_cap) Leather and Iron

Nordic items:
347 - Nordic_Leather_Helmet (itm_nordic_archer_helmet) Leather
348 - Nordic_Leather_Helmet (itm_nordic_veteran_archer_helmet) Leather and Iron

I also excluded the following item from the original list due to its regional description and an existing similar item:
247 - Steppe_Armor (itm_steppe_armor) Leather
It could be thrown in with the Khergit items

I'm not saying these should be implemented, but if you decided to make regional items for all the crafting skills, these would be the ones for leatherworking.  If you were to implement regional crafting, having it based on the location of the player would make most sense, as recruiting in native is done the same way.

In fact, since the work on leatherworking is finished, I'd suggest not implementing any of the above.  I mainly included it because it was easier for me to find this info than someone unfamilar with leather products in Calradia. 

 

[Cernunos]

Tx a lot, I keep this preciously.

I won't add them for konw, because I think a recipe specific system could be fun to add in a next Version.

 

[Cernunos]

Thinking about it, a specific recipe system based on slots wouldn't be that hard to add to the current crafting system, and could be quite interesting and enriching.