Idea for a new "fluid" manual block.

[Stokes52]

Hey all.

So I've been playing around with manual block, and in my opinion manual block SHOULD be harder than auto block or someone blocking with a shield, but it shouldn't be such a massive crutch to fight without a shield on manual. Here's the problems I've come across with the manual auto block system as well as some options that I think might fix it.

First of all, the new animations make it slightly harder to tell where you're getting attacked from. I personally love the new animations, but in the quick instant it takes to decide which direction to block, (since some animations are similar) it can get confusing. However I don't think the animations need to be changed, but how manual block itself works.  Countless times I've moved my mouse in the right direction to counter the attack, but because I pressed right-click a millisecond too early, I find my character blocking in the complete wrong direction and I end up dead.  With the current system, there is literally 4 things you have to focus on AT ONCE in order to block successfully.  You have to look at your opponent and guess where he is going to attack, you have to move your mouse in the corresponding direction, you have to remember to right click AFTER you have moved in the direction of your block, and THEN you have to look at your character to make sure he has actually blocked in the right direction.  Some people like this system. Fine, but let offer an alternative that I think will be more intuitive to some, but of course not all. I propose it should be an OPTION.

I call it "fluid manual-block"
When you press right click, your character goes into "Block mode".  From here, he will automatically adjust the position of his block according to where the player looks. If you glance up with right click held down, he will shift his block up, if you glance left, he will shift his block left, etc.  This presents an intuitive way to limit the things one is thinking about when he is blocking.  Now it is just watching the enemy and twitching the mouse in the direction of the attack.  .Now here is the downside, and this is why I think it should be an OPTION for people to choose.  The downside is that because your block is continuously moving, you cannot "lock" a block.  For example if you know the spear user is going to use a thrust, you cant preposition your block to counter a thrust.  If you are looking left to block a left attack, but you suddenly twitch right, then of course your character would change his block position, and the enemy would hit you.  Essentially the new system does NOTHING to change the actual "system" of blocking, it just changes the order in which buttons must be pressed.  In my opinion this system makes more sense, but of course, some people like the old system so it should be an option, just like inverse mouse movement or regular mouse movement control attacks.

It makes MUCH more sense to me to press block and then move my mouse into the enemy's blow, then to move into the enemy's blow and THEN press block as it is now.  What are your guys thoughts? Good idea? Is it feasible to add as an option under "manual block"?

 

[HTAPAWASO]

Hey all.

So I've been playing around with manual block, and in my opinion manual block SHOULD be harder than auto block or someone blocking with a shield, but it shouldn't be such a massive crutch to fight without a shield on manual. Here's the problems I've come across with the manual auto block system as well as some options that I think might fix it.

First of all, the new animations make it slightly harder to tell where you're getting attacked from. I personally love the new animations, but in the quick instant it takes to decide which direction to block, (since some animations are similar) it can get confusing. However I don't think the animations need to be changed, but how manual block itself works.  Countless times I've moved my mouse in the right direction to counter the attack, but because I pressed right-click a millisecond too early, I find my character blocking in the complete wrong direction and I end up dead.  With the current system, there is literally 4 things you have to focus on AT ONCE in order to block successfully.  You have to look at your opponent and guess where he is going to attack, you have to move your mouse in the corresponding direction, you have to remember to right click AFTER you have moved in the direction of your block, and THEN you have to look at your character to make sure he has actually blocked in the right direction.  Some people like this system. Fine, but let offer an alternative that I think will be more intuitive to some, but of course not all. I propose it should be an OPTION.

I call it "fluid manual-block"
When you press right click, your character goes into "Block mode".  From here, he will automatically adjust the position of his block according to where the player looks. If you glance up with right click held down, he will shift his block up, if you glance left, he will shift his block left, etc.  This presents an intuitive way to limit the things one is thinking about when he is blocking.  Now it is just watching the enemy and twitching the mouse in the direction of the attack.  .Now here is the downside, and this is why I think it should be an OPTION for people to choose.  The downside is that because your block is continuously moving, you cannot "lock" a block.  For example if you know the spear user is going to use a thrust, you cant preposition your block to counter a thrust.  If you are looking left to block a left attack, but you suddenly twitch right, then of course your character would change his block position, and the enemy would hit you.  Essentially the new system does NOTHING to change the actual "system" of blocking, it just changes the order in which buttons must be pressed.  In my opinion this system makes more sense, but of course, some people like the old system so it should be an option, just like inverse mouse movement or regular mouse movement control attacks.

It makes MUCH more sense to me to press block and then move my mouse into the enemy's blow, then to move into the enemy's blow and THEN press block as it is now.  What are your guys thoughts? Good idea? Is it feasible to add as an option under "manual block"?

The problem is, I believe, that in the current system, if you accidentally block the wrong direction, by the time you correct this you will already have been hit.

I don't think this will change with your system, and I'll give an example why:


You are being attacked from the left.

With current manual block, you accidentally click too early and block thrust - by the time you've corrected yourself it's too late.
With 'fluid-manual-blocking', you deliberately click too early, your character starts blocking thrust and by the time it's changed to blocking left it's too late.

See what I mean? Just because you're holding down the button doesn't mean the animation will go any faster - it will take just as long for your character to correct himself as the current system, unless you change the animations.


However if people wanted to use this I wouldn't be at all against it. I just think it would offer a disadvantage rather than an advantage personally.

 

[Berserker Pride]

Well this idea was suggested before but I have always thought it would be worth a try.  I personally find manual block quite clunky as you have mentioned.  Manual block fights on average are very short affairs.  If manual blocking felt a little better it would make people not always go sword and shield.  And as you said it should be a choice in your options menu not a server setting.

 

[Scorch!]

I always wanted to try this type of a blocking system out, just to see if it is a better system than the current one.

I do have a quibble with it though, because you have to move the mouse to change the direction of the block, all someone has to do is move to the side of you, whilst attacking in the opposite direction to his movement, and suddenly you have a strike that you will have to block by getting out of "fluid block" mode first and then repositioning, which is basically the same thing as manual block as it is now. If a way could be devised to get around this problem, then I believe that fluid block could be quite good.

 

[SteveO]

Hell no.  I hate the current method because it slings your camera all over the place.  This would just amplify the effect.

 

[DuckSauce]

What I hate about manual blocking is nord veterans just keep pressing forward after they're already in your face, just like the bots in singleplayer would do.
The problem with that is from at least a first person point of view you can't watch his movements anymore.

That's the only gripe I have with manual blocking, those goddamn annoying facehuggers, I thought multiplayer would rid the world of M&B from them but nope now the humans have turned face huggers 

 

[Kleidophoros]

What I hate about manual blocking is nord veterans just keep pressing forward after they're already in your face, just like the bots in singleplayer would do.
The problem with that is from at least a first person point of view you can't watch his movements anymore.

That's the only gripe I have with manual blocking, those goddamn annoying facehuggers, I thought multiplayer would rid the world of M&B from them but nope now the humans have turned face huggers 

Its the reach of those axes. cant hit **** without hugging the dude.

 

[obolus]

i totally agree that from some of the animations it is really difficult to decide where the hit will come from - i'd really love to see this fixed. sometimes you can say from the beginning of animation, what move your opponent is going to make, but sometimes it is really tricky.

i like that manual blocking is difficult. i have a lot of problems with it but i'm not yet giving up and want to give it a bit more time before asking to make it easier. it is a pity i do not have many possibilities to test it with other players - like i engage a 1v1 sword fight and suddenly opponent switches to javelins or i get sniped etc... but it doesn't matter, just wanted to say i am still getting a very little better at manual blocking so i am not yet giving up and don't want to ask for changing this.

but i experienced one thing (only twice because i didn't get more possibilities to test it) - i blocked with my 2handed axe a scimitar and tried to strike back - before i striked i was hit again by that damn scimitar. so i blocked another hit, tried to strike back, but i was again slower than the opponent. from this perspective it seems that with relatively slow 2h weapon you have absolutely no chance defeating sbdy with fast weapon because all you can do is just to defend. i think this should be a bit fixed, but as i said i didn't get many chances to test it repeatedly.

 

[DuckSauce]

sometimes you can say from the beginning of animation, what move your opponent is going to make, but sometimes it is really tricky.

oh I love that! You can often tell whether they're going to swing left or right purely by their body movement. This is what makes face huggers somewhat bearable, you can't see their actual attack but can see their body move. For stabs/overhead swings I haven't found it to usefull yet, but that's because not enough people use them frequently to learn to predict them.

 

[Stokes52]

Here's an idea, since people are having trouble with the animations, why not make it an option to show a little indicator showing which direction the attack is coming from?  Just like the "show attack direction" indicator, only it would show which direction to block instead.

Some people might oppose, saying this makes it "too easy", but I prefer broad playability on all levels over "Only l33t pr0s should be able to play this game and win". I mean come on, I fully expect a really good player without a shield to beat a noob with a shield, but as it is now, because the system is so clunky, that even your average newb can beat a good manual block user on many occasions.

Manual block should be easy to use, but difficult to master.  It shouldn't be difficult because it is clunky and unreliable, but it instead it should be easy to use but hard to master. Right now its clunky and hard to use and its almost impossible to master.

 

[SteveO]

Heh.  People oppose a WSAD control over manual block because it would be 'too easy' and it's fundamentally no change to the current blocking method. 

No way that solution is going to fly. 

 

[Johnny Morphine]

Here's an idea, since people are having trouble with the animations, why not make it an option to show a little indicator showing which direction the attack is coming from?  Just like the "show attack direction" indicator, only it would show which direction to block instead.

Some people might oppose, saying this makes it "too easy", but I prefer broad playability on all levels over "Only l33t pr0s should be able to play this game and win". I mean come on, I fully expect a really good player without a shield to beat a noob with a shield, but as it is now, because the system is so clunky, that even your average newb can beat a good manual block user on many occasions.

Manual block should be easy to use, but difficult to master.  It shouldn't be difficult because it is clunky and unreliable, but it instead it should be easy to use but hard to master. Right now its clunky and hard to use and its almost impossible to master.

The problem with the suggestion is that multiple attacks can be coming at different angles, all within impact range. This would make any sort of indicator useless.

I saw a suggestion on another thread (which was completely unrelated to blocking) that suggested an option make your character model semitransparent so you would be able to see more of what's going on in front of you. This could make the animations clearer, though right now I don't think that's as much of a problem as the current manual block system.


A problem I noticed the other day is that when you're fighting someone, you're far more likely to be turning quickly to the sides than anything else, to assure that your character is facing the opponent directly at all times. This makes upward and downward blocks next to impossible, because half the time the slight motion up or down will be overridden by the more dramatic turning that you have to do so not to get stabbed in the side where you're defenseless anyway. This is where SteveO's suggestion would prevail in part, because it's independent of what your mouse is doing. The problem with it is that you've got to stop moving (which could be a problem, since positioning is arguably just as important as facing your opponent) for a split second in order to use the movement keys to select a block direction, but this would at least behave more reliably than the more analogue mouse.

One of the reasons I like the idea presented in this thread is that it could be fantastic in areas where you're unlikely to be outflanked, but other than that a skilled player will just dance around you and stab you in the kidney while you're sitting there trying to block what got behind you.

I think the ultimate option would be to allow a separate key binding for each of the four block directions. This could be difficult to set up with the common control scheme, and probably even more difficult to get used to, but a system like that would remove itself from all other functions, and let blocking behave as its own entity so that you can continue to move and turn as normal.

 

[Mabons]

I like this idea. Screw all the problems with it, every system will have one. This one seems to be the best. I also noticed that it is very clunky, you cannot tell what way your going to block, even though you look right, you might block up or down...

Another thing I'd like to see, is the... parameters(?) for which you have to look past in your view to block up or down. I don't want to have to look at the sky or look at the floor to block thrusts and overheads.

 

[HTAPAWASO]

I like this idea. Screw all the problems with it, every system will have one. This one seems to be the best. I also noticed that it is very clunky, you cannot tell what way your going to block, even though you look right, you might block up or down...

Another thing I'd like to see, is the... parameters(?) for which you have to look past in your view to block up or down. I don't want to have to look at the sky or look at the floor to block thrusts and overheads.

I agree... you really have to exaggerate your movements to guarantee a block in the right direction when really you just want to give the camera a little nudge.

but i experienced one thing (only twice because i didn't get more possibilities to test it) - i blocked with my 2handed axe a scimitar and tried to strike back - before i striked i was hit again by that damn scimitar. so i blocked another hit, tried to strike back, but i was again slower than the opponent. from this perspective it seems that with relatively slow 2h weapon you have absolutely no chance defeating sbdy with fast weapon because all you can do is just to defend. i think this should be a bit fixed, but as i said i didn't get many chances to test it repeatedly.

Yeah... scimitars are pretty crazy atm.

I'm a pretty poor player, but even I very rarely lose a dual with a scimitar.

Then again if the speed is reduced, they're just like any other weapon... I guess a slight damage reduction wouldn't go astray.

 

[looy]

I had an idea similar to this, I'm fleshing it out at the moment with pictures and stuff. I also want a more fluid manual block, but I think you should be able to "aim" it like a shield rather than having to block in a certain direction.

 

[obolus]

the downside that you cannot fix block at certain position and keep turning around is for me to big to agree with this suggestion - i think i can be more sucesfull with standing mb than with this fluid. now are rather some hard to read animations limitating than something else. however if fluid block will be implemented as optional feature, i don't mind.

 

[Thyr]

If there was a small "dead zone" implemented (a certain area around the center of the screen where mouse movement won't change the camera, but just change your block direction) while you're in blocking mode, it might reduce the problem of the camera shaking all over the screen with the manual block system. It just shouldn't be too huge since otherwise you would be even slower than now to turn if someone decides to run past you/do a pirouette...