I'd like a refund.

[Raging Womble]

I personally don't want a refund as I think they will improve it.


However, people are well within their rights to request one.

 

[Cyber]

Napoleonic Wars was revolutionary for MB:WB.

What?

I am willing to go one step further. It was a revolutionary game for first person shooters, period.

NW showed that you do not need to have semi automatic/full automatic fire guns (any gun post 1930) to have a fun and enjoyable FPS. A revolutionary concept successfully implemented.

Revolutionary concept? I could count half a dozen games/mods that have done it before NW, Battlegrounds 2 being a good example.

 

[Redleg]

You should expect this from games these days, I can't think of the last game I purchased on release that didn't have a single bug. It might not be right but at this point you're the idiot if you pre-order something or purchase the day of release and expect anything other than this to happen and screaming I WANT A REFUND!!! in a forum post instead of actually trying to talk to someone who could maybe help you get a refund is pretty ridiculous. As is asking for a refund for a game you couldn't wait a single day longer than you had to to get your hands on and so obviously are probably going to end up buying again at some point down the road if you do get a refund.

Wat.

You know why so many games are being released far from finished/promised state? It's because of dumb fanboys like you. I love to play M&B - one of the best games I've ever played. But there is no way in hell that I will just accept that some games are broken at launch.

I don't usually pre-order but I did for VC. **** me for wanting to play a game, right?
The game is unplayable at the moment. We are not talking about simple bugs, you bafoon. The game is poorly optimized and crashes (take a look at the topic from a concerned player about the pisspoor memory used in VC).

Why are you stupid fanboys making video games out to be something so ******** special, that people should just accept that when the game is broken it's just "Too bad. Just wait for them to fix it :----)".

If you bought a screwdriver from a hardwarestore and it breaks in half every few mintues you're using it, wouldnt you return it? Why the **** is a game any different. Sure, minor problems can be accepted but crashes due to poorly testing is just... not okay. I know you won't get that in to your thick ******** head, but I'd love to see your scrawny face when the cashier at the hardwarestore tells you to just accept that the screwdriver is broken. They will fix it... eventually. And you - being the idiot you are - would probably just accept it.


I'm not going to ask for a refund for VC, but I can understand why people will. **** you and your fanboism - you're the reason why so many games are released in pisspoor conditions.

The screwdriver analogy doesn't really work, since a broken screwdriver can't be fixed with a downloadable patch.  Why do you have to insist that anyone who is willing to wait for a patch is a ******* fanboy?  I doubt that even the most ardent fans are happy about the bugginess of the game.  They are just able to put things into proper perspective and delay gratification long enough for the designers to fix the problems.  I'll be pissed too if the fixes are too slow in coming.  Patience, grasshopper.

 

[Plovercrest]

So, why wasn't this released as early access?

If it were I'd think everyone would be more forgiving. Also, a demo like in Warband would have been cool.

 

[Jazzeren]

You should expect this from games these days, I can't think of the last game I purchased on release that didn't have a single bug. It might not be right but at this point you're the idiot if you pre-order something or purchase the day of release and expect anything other than this to happen and screaming I WANT A REFUND!!! in a forum post instead of actually trying to talk to someone who could maybe help you get a refund is pretty ridiculous. As is asking for a refund for a game you couldn't wait a single day longer than you had to to get your hands on and so obviously are probably going to end up buying again at some point down the road if you do get a refund.

Wat.

You know why so many games are being released far from finished/promised state? It's because of dumb fanboys like you. I love to play M&B - one of the best games I've ever played. But there is no way in hell that I will just accept that some games are broken at launch.

I don't usually pre-order but I did for VC. **** me for wanting to play a game, right?
The game is unplayable at the moment. We are not talking about simple bugs, you bafoon. The game is poorly optimized and crashes (take a look at the topic from a concerned player about the pisspoor memory used in VC).

Why are you stupid fanboys making video games out to be something so ******** special, that people should just accept that when the game is broken it's just "Too bad. Just wait for them to fix it :----)".

If you bought a screwdriver from a hardwarestore and it breaks in half every few mintues you're using it, wouldnt you return it? Why the **** is a game any different. Sure, minor problems can be accepted but crashes due to poorly testing is just... not okay. I know you won't get that in to your thick ******** head, but I'd love to see your scrawny face when the cashier at the hardwarestore tells you to just accept that the screwdriver is broken. They will fix it... eventually. And you - being the idiot you are - would probably just accept it.


I'm not going to ask for a refund for VC, but I can understand why people will. **** you and your fanboism - you're the reason why so many games are released in pisspoor conditions.

The screwdriver analogy doesn't really work, since a broken screwdriver can't be fixed with a downloadable patch.  Why do you have to insist that anyone who is willing to wait for a patch is a ******* fanboy?  I doubt that even the most ardent fans are happy about the bugginess of the game.  They are just able to put things into proper perspective and delay gratification long enough for the designers to fix the problems.  I'll be pissed too if the fixes are too slow in coming.  Patience, grasshopper.

... but you're still paying for something that is broken. As I said: I can accept minor bugs, but a game that crashes and is full of gamebreaking bugs... that I can't accept. The people requesting a refund is in their right to do so and I find it obnoxious that some idiots on here feel the need to belittle them for that.

I'm not saying that everyone who is willing to wait for a patch is a ******** fanboy. I'm saying that people who pour **** on people who don't want to wait for a patch are your typical fanboys who is more than willing to just mindlessly throw money at a game. Regardless of how pisspoor it is.

10$ isn't much... for some people. For some it is. And that's really not the point. It could cost 1000$ and the problem would be the same. The game was broken on release and still is - refund? If people want to, they should have one. I myself couldnt give a rats ass about 10$ but the other guy in this thread who studies might have a really tight budget. Isn't it beyond ridiculous to talk down to him for wanting a refund? I don't know if Im missing something but it seems rather arrogant and pathetic to talk down to him just because he wants a refund - which is why I felt the need to jump in and give my two cents.

Still hoping for some patches myself - I really think this game can BECOME great =)

 

[ultraman]

I'm not going to ask for a refund, because I believe the developers will fix it and that I'll still want it, but I'm definitely NOT playing the as it currently is, and can understand that people might want their money back.

I do appreciate the devs straight up apologizing and believe they intend to do their utmost, but I also have a hard time believing that so many of these bugs, of which there are so many, are system dependent and just didn't show up on their limited test beds.

 

[Digirati]

This happens all the time with software. You have a deadline, you deliver for a client, you discover something is wrong.

They could say they aren't going to pay for /any/ of it, but there's still this little nagging thing: The client actually /wanted/ the thing you made for them.

So you fix the problems within a week or two, tops, and everyone is happy again.

Software development is hard, there's a lot of stuff to orchestrate, and smaller teams with a smaller QA staff are going to slip up.

It's not cool, but I don't think you guys are punishing them any worse than they are mentally and physically punishing themselves right now, going into full on firefighting mode to get this fixed and create new builds.  Give it a few days.  You're not buying a car.  You're buying a virtual asset.  Virtual assets can be updated at relatively little cost or inconvenience to you (versus, say, recalling a car).  Set expectations accordingly.

If we're still here in this general state of things in a couple weeks time, we can have a different conversation.

 

[freedomna]

Napoleonic Wars was revolutionary for MB:WB.

What?

I am willing to go one step further. It was a revolutionary game for first person shooters, period.

NW showed that you do not need to have semi automatic/full automatic fire guns (any gun post 1930) to have a fun and enjoyable FPS. A revolutionary concept successfully implemented.

Revolutionary concept? I could count half a dozen games/mods that have done it before NW, Battlegrounds 2 being a good example.

At the risk of being off topic Battlegrounds 2 is a -mod-. NW showed you can have a BG2 game be commercially viable.

 

[freedomna]

This happens all the time with software. You have a deadline, you deliver for a client, you discover something is wrong.

They could say they aren't going to pay for /any/ of it, but there's still this little nagging thing: The client actually /wanted/ the thing you made for them.

So you fix the problems within a week or two, tops, and everyone is happy again.

Software development is hard, there's a lot of stuff to orchestrate, and smaller teams with a smaller QA staff are going to slip up.

It's not cool, but I don't think you guys are punishing them any worse than they are mentally and physically punishing themselves right now, going into full on firefighting mode to get this fixed and create new builds.  Give it a few days.  You're not buying a car.  You're buying a virtual asset.  Virtual assets can be updated at relatively little cost or inconvenience to you (versus, say, recalling a car).  Set expectations accordingly.

If we're still here in this general state of things in a couple weeks time, we can have a different conversation.

As much as I love Brytenwalda Devs/ Tale worlds. I am not going to cut them a break just because software development is hard (CS major here!), the opposite in fact. The reason I am so upset is because I love them so much and I expected more of them. You just don't release an alpha/beta unless you mention beforehand you are releasing an alpha/beta. Taleworlds made amazing games, and with the Brytenwalda team on board, it was a match made in heaven. Viking Conquest was the first game I preordered in a year, heck I preordered it the hour it was on the steam store.

I was treated right by TW, so I put my faith in them like I am sure others did. We had faith they would release us a game worth our money. Yet when it came up to bat, we had a game so buggy that Bethesda would blush. Now I know the problems will be fixed, hence why I am not asking for a refund... what will not be fixed though is my trust. The next TW game that comes out, I am going to worry. I am going to wonder "Will the game be playable?". Trust is important in a business environment. If your customers trust you, they will buy from you. Right now I don't know if I would buy from them again... my trust is wounded.

Now I am happy they apologised as it is something most devs dont do (even though they bloody well should *cough* Rome 2 *cough*), but I already explained earlier why we shouldn't get all hyped over an apology and that they are working hard to fix everything. It is like getting excited that the guy who drunk drove through your home's front door is going to pay for the damages. I mean I am a cynical person, but even I wouldn't think the devs would just give us a broken game and not look back.

 

[Ralepozozaxe]

Will the developers respond to this thread? I would like an answer on this. I see them responding to the threads saying how people like this game straight away, but ignoring this one.

 

[DefenderoftheCrown]

Will the developers respond to this thread? I would like an answer on this. I see them responding to the threads saying how people like this game straight away, but ignoring this one.

That's what people getting the warm and fuzzies about an apology don't understand.  An apology serves the developer's interests.  And most importantly, takes minutes to type and with little to no cost.  If they truly had confidence in their product, a refund wouldn't scare any developer away.  They encourage it and make it available.  Save the apology.  I don't want excuses or a finished product at some undisclosed potential future date.

They took a specific amount of money in exchange for a finished product, not some sort of investment on a promise of a finished product.  These people are not your friends guys.  They made this game available to make money. 

I would certainly pay for this game in the future if it was finished and working properly.  All I'm asking is for my money in the meantime while they figure out whatever it is they need to figure out. 

 

[Michadr]

I think everyone should just calm down. You all know that with each game release there is a good chance that their are going to be bugs. Even with a lot of testing a lot of them can slip through. I know that firsthand and let me tell you that is not a good feeling, having tested a release and thinking that it's okay and pretty stable. But things can go south really quickly. Whoever bought the game,  just relax for a little bit. It's not like it's the end of the world. I have the highest respect for the devs. who made this DLC, as it isn't easy. I am sure there will be a patch to fix these issues. From what I have seen it has looked great so far! Yes their are those random crashes and other bugs but once again, just relax. The world doesn't end because a DLC isn't quite finished.

Will the developers respond to this thread? I would like an answer on this. I see them responding to the threads saying how people like this game straight away, but ignoring this one.

That's what people getting the warm and fuzzies about an apology don't understand.  An apology serves the developer's interests.  And most importantly, takes minutes to type and with little to no cost.  If they truly had confidence in their product, a refund wouldn't scare any developer away.  They encourage it and make it available.  Save the apology.  I don't want excuses or a finished product at some undisclosed potential future date.

They took a specific amount of money in exchange for a finished product, not some sort of investment on a promise of a finished product.  These people are not your friends guys.  They made this game available to make money. 

I would certainly pay for this game in the future if it was finished and working properly.  All I'm asking is for my money in the meantime while they figure out whatever it is they need to figure out. 

So you'd get your money back, then spend it again on the same product... why go through all the trouble? 

Pointless thread IMO. If their are bugs and the devs. know about them I am certain they will get fixed.

 

[BrustwarzenLenny]

Will the developers respond to this thread? I would like an answer on this. I see them responding to the threads saying how people like this game straight away, but ignoring this one.

I for me self didn't reply to this thread because of several reasons.

First of all - I'm busy to hell with fixing whatever goes wrong for the people who payed for this game.
And because I can only look a few time into this forum and I'm completelly leached out, because of half a year without any kind of freetime, I prefer to read and react to constructive criticism.

Second - why all people think games are the only product where you get immediately your money back and don't have to give the developer a chance to fix your issues? I don't know how it is in your countries, but in germany there are even laws for this.
And for example, as people here love to compare games with other products (like cars  ), I would like to compare them with movies!
I was damn often in cinema, payed arround 10 bucks for a single, short movie and then it was a complete waste of time'n'money... I've never got any kind of refund there.
Or music - how often have people bought an album for twice the money we demand for our game, because of the awesome single the album was advertised with. And then all other songs were completelly different and ****. Try to get a refund here. Try to get any fix here!

Third - I really understand people are upset if they have problems and they have all rights to do so. But it is no help for us if they are just complaining about their game's condition without giving us detailed information about their hardware, game's config and kind of issue.
We can't fix what we don't know. I can't reproduce 95% of the bugs complained about, so my only chance are detailed informations by the people who have them - and it is still a blindfolded flight!
And if we can't fix the issues, you're not helped, too - as then your spent money will never pay off.

Edit:
Sorry if anyone feels attacked by these words - not intended to attack - but I just want to be honest, as this is something I, as a gamer, allways missed by developers.
People fastly think, if a game has bugs, the devs or the publisher have intended to cheat their customers and rob their money, or even think they were lazy!
Truth is far, far away of these. With only a limited amount of testers, it is impossible to test the never ending possibilities of hardware-combinations all the future gamer's will try to play your game on. So it is impossible to avoid there occure far more bugs after release, than you have ever seen during the whole development.
People like to say - they better should have released it later... Would end up the same! The big majority of issues reported here, didn't even occure in alpha-stage. So they have appeared the first time, when the game was released to the mass.
Other issues seemed to be fixed, but then - bad surprise - machines of other people like to reopen these bugs.

And about "lazy developers" - how many of you would work 100h/week in a project you don't even know it will pay off at the end? I still don't know if I end up with a 1€/h payment for my spent worktime on this game, or with 10€/h or higher.
This is a damn russian roulette and has by far nothing to do with any kind of lazynes.

Okay, that was enough whining from my side for today, after a further, ****ty night

 

[freedomna]

-I think everyone should just calm down. You all know that with each game release there is a good chance that their are going to be bugs. Even with a lot of testing a lot of them can slip through.

-I know that firsthand and let me tell you that is not a good feeling, having tested a release and thinking that it's okay and pretty stable. But things can go south really quickly. Whoever bought the game,  just relax for a little bit. It's not like it's the end of the world.

-I have the highest respect for the devs. who made this DLC, as it isn't easy.

- I am sure there will be a patch to fix these issues. From what I have seen it has looked great so far!

-Yes their are those random crashes and other bugs but once again, just relax.

-The world doesn't end because a DLC isn't quite finished.

-There is a difference between a game with some bugs and a game -> UNPLAYABLE <-  due to the bugs. Your logic is completely unsound. By your reasoning there is no difference between Forza 4 and Big Rigs Over the Road Racing!!!

-It is common in the industry to release a game unready, and use the customers as a testers (hence day one patches, and the Rome 2 video about the Devs talking about "Waves of patches to fix things" before the game was even released). This seems like the same case.

-I am not saying it is easy to make a DLC, no one is. We are saying though that if you are going to make a DLC, have it work when you start selling it or give us a warning. This is mostly TW fault since they hold the reins, but still a warning would have been nice.

-We are not beta testers... we paid for a -full- game and instead we got a beta.

Now I am happy they apologised as it is something most devs dont do (even though they bloody well should *cough* Rome 2 *cough*), but I already explained earlier why we shouldn't get all hyped over an apology and that they are working hard to fix everything. It is like getting excited that the guy who drunk drove through your home's front door is going to pay for the damages. I mean I am a cynical person, but even I wouldn't think the devs would just give us a broken game and not look back.

-You didn't even get this game did you? From the sheer patronizing you have written, it is obvious you either:
*A. Got a copy without 99% of the issues... in which case where can I get this?
*B. Never played the game, and thus never encountered 99% of the issues.
I am not talking about a game like Skyrim which had some bugs and what not. This game is a painfully obvious -BETA- test and it is insulting that you treat it as anything but.

-The world doesn't end just because you got your wallet stolen, but it doesn't mean you can't be bleeding upset now can ya?

 

[Grimes]

And for example, as people here love to compare games with other products (like cars  ), I would like to compare them with movies!
I was damn often in cinema, payed arround 10 bucks for a single, short movie and then it was a complete waste of time'n'money... I've never got any kind of refund there.
Or music - how often have people bought an album for twice the money we demand for our game, because of the awesome single the album was advertised with. And then all other songs were completelly different and ****. Try to get a refund here. Try to get any fix here!

if you walk into a cinema and the projector breaks and the movie won't play, you'll get a refund. if you buy an album and the cd's files are corrupted or the cd itself is cracked or something, you'll most likely get a refund. people aren't complaining because they don't like the game...they're complaining because they can't even play it!

 

[MackCW]

Brust, you're not going to win in this thread. You guys have already apologized and are working to fix them. All you're going to get is grief from recruits you will never see again.

While I'm disappointed in some gameplay choices, there is a lot of things that I have been pleasantly surprised by that will keep me playing this DLC.

Not worth responding to this thread anymore, these guys know where they can get a refund as several outlets are already offering them.

 

[Grimes]

Brust, you're not going to win in this thread. You guys have already apologized and are working to fix them. All you're going to get is grief from recruits you will never see again.

While I'm disappointed in some gameplay choices, there is a lot of things that I have been pleasantly surprised by that will keep me playing this DLC.

Not worth responding to this thread anymore, these guys know where they can get a refund as several outlets are already offering them.

if the devs continue to be as dismissive to my problems as he is and insist i test their game for them they very well may never see me again. i have no interest in playing this buggy game and writing up detailed reports to get my "money's worth"

 

[MackCW]

That's because he is answering the same question over and over and over...

They get it. Release was botched. And they are fixing it.

 

[Grimes]

yet here we are, it isn't fixed, i'm out money and i'm being patronized by the devs and fanboys like you who think it's acceptable that i should have to wait who knows how long to actually play the game i've paid for

 

[freedomna]

Will the developers respond to this thread? I would like an answer on this. I see them responding to the threads saying how people like this game straight away, but ignoring this one.

I for me self didn't reply to this thread because of several reasons.

==First of all - I'm busy to hell with fixing whatever goes wrong for the people who payed for this game.
And because I can only look a few time into this forum and I'm completelly leached out, because of half a year without any kind of freetime, I prefer to read and react to constructive criticism.

==Second - why all people think games are the only product where you get immediately your money back and don't have to give the developer a chance to fix your issues? I don't know how it is in your countries, but in germany there are even laws for this.
And for example, as people here love to compare games with other products (like cars  ), I would like to compare them with movies!
I was damn often in cinema, payed arround 10 bucks for a single, short movie and then it was a complete waste of time'n'money... I've never got any kind of refund there.
Or music - how often have people bought an album for twice the money we demand for our game, because of the awesome single the album was advertised with. And then all other songs were completelly different and ****. Try to get a refund here. Try to get any fix here!

==Third - I really understand people are upset if they have problems and they have all rights to do so. But it is no help for us if they are just complaining about their game's condition without giving us detailed information about their hardware, game's config and kind of issue.
We can't fix what we don't know. I can't reproduce 95% of the bugs complained about, so my only chance are detailed informations by the people who have them - and it is still a blindfolded flight!
And if we can't fix the issues, you're not helped, too - as then your spent money will never pay off.

Edit:
==Sorry if anyone feels attacked by these words - not intended to attack - but I just want to be honest, as this is something I, as a gamer, allways missed by developers.
==People fastly think, if a game has bugs, the devs or the publisher have intended to cheat their customers and rob their money, or even think they were lazy!
==Truth is far, far away of these. With only a limited amount of testers, it is impossible to test the never ending possibilities of hardware-combinations all the future gamer's will try to play your game on. So it is impossible to avoid there occure far more bugs after release, than you have ever seen during the whole development.
==People like to say - they better should have released it later... Would end up the same! The big majority of issues reported here, didn't even occure in alpha-stage. So they have appeared the first time, when the game was released to the mass.
Other issues seemed to be fixed, but then - bad surprise - machines of other people like to reopen these bugs.

==And about "lazy developers" - how many of you would work 100h/week in a project you don't even know it will pay off at the end? I still don't know if I end up with a 1€/h payment for my spent worktime on this game, or with 10€/h or higher.
This is a damn russian roulette and has by far nothing to do with any kind of lazynes.

Okay, that was enough whining from my side for today, after a further, ****ty night

A dev :O

Before I respond let me just say that I believe Taleworld shoulders 99% of the blame. The coders rarely ever set a release date.

==Fair enough, hence why I do not expect (and even hope) that their isn't a response to this post. Time spent responding to me, well I would rather have it give us the DLC that I spent since October fantasying about. This post is just so I can convey to the apologists, who say nothing is wrong with the game  (even though you are working tirelessly to fix something that has "Nothing wrong") my point of view.

==Grimes already responded to that above.

==As much as I would love to help, I did not give my tenner to be a beta tester. That doesn't mean I will report bugs and what not when they occur in normal play. The thing is, the game's bugs is like Airplane with Jokes. You miss one, another one comes 30 seconds later. To write out a detail report on each, that would take a full time job. This is Taleworlds problem I believe since they set the budget, and thus you may not have been able to higher enough testers. This is not a coding problem since as you said, with so many lines of code, something -will- go wrong. You just needed more testers to test.

==No attacks felt here. 

==I am probably looking too hard into this, but I realise you didn't write anything about a Beta Test.  I am going to hope you had one, but my gut tells me we are the Beta test. Or maybe the Gamma Test (if anyone is a Mechquest fan)???

==As I said, most of the blame resides with Taleworlds. It is obvious they wanted a holiday release to cash in big, and just like the people behind "ET: The Video Game" expected you to have the DLC ready long before it was. The only thing I can fault you for (and to be honest, I can barely fault you with that) is lack of a warning. Just a post on the forums saying "I do not feel this game reflects the highest quality of our work, if you buy it just be aware of that" or something. Then again your contracts may have prohibited that in which case I can't fault you much of anything at all. You don't get mad at the employees for something the company sets.

I am going to close off by saying: I love Brytenwalda. You guys did an amazing Job. In a few months, I can see Viking Conquest top that. It is because of that I pre-ordered VC the moment it hit stores. It is because of that I am not going to ask for a refund, and I encourage others not to do the same. This goes double if you are just going to rebuy the DLC once it reaches a finished state.

The Hotfixed hotfixed most of the majors bugs, so the game is playable (although I am going to wait to play in case you release a hotfix that would break saves).