I thought cavalry would be the natural counter to archers.

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Mabons

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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B) Very slighty reduce the threshold for bumpstabs, and if possible completely stop or heavily reduce the moving people around aspect of cav. IMO Warband was broken when it came to bumpstabs but it did provide a balancing aspect to archers, so there should be a middleground.
I'd rather not see bumpstabs becoming the norm, like they were in Warband. It's a bit like how no one had fun when kicks were so easy a few patches ago, it won't be fun to die to bumpstabs all the time.

Archers are in a nice spot in the current live patch, and the changes in beta are supposed to exaggerate the difference between a longbow and a shortbow, which should in theory make it even better.
 

OurGloriousLeader

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Well it's a payoff since OP is basically correct, cav are the natural counter to archers since they can travel distances quickly, and I'm just presenting the reasons why they currently struggle to be effective. It might not be fun to get bumpstabbed, but nor is it fun to get footshot or eternally kited by archers whom you have little kill pressure on. It's not the only solution for sure though, just one idea.
 
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AVRC

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edit: in 1.5.5
Faster bows have their damages lowered significantly and cavs, especially heavy, should be able to shrug that damage even if they get hit and slower bows take much longer to draw and aim so they should not be able to move around and spam. Also none of the archers have spears any more.

No match up should be an auto win but cavs should have a very significant advantage over archers. We believe this will be the case in 1.5.5, if it is not we will take measures to make so.
 
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OurGloriousLeader

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It'll be good that cav can approach archers without being peppered to death for sure, although with no kill pressure it still just kinda cancels each other out. But it seems it's all decided in the inf fight currently so maybe that's enough.
 

knight92

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Faster bows have their damages lowered significantly and cavs, especially heavy, should be able to shrug that damage even if they get hit and slower bows take much longer to draw and aim so they should not be able to move around and spam. Also none of the archers have spears any more.

No match up should be an auto win but cavs should have a very significant advantage over archers. We believe this will be the case in 1.5.5, if it is not we will take measures to make so.
@AVRC sorry if i use this thread about cavalry balance of skirmish to talk about captain mode but i like to respond directly to your statment, i would like to ask you if the are any plan to balance this in the captain mode, because without the spear the light archer become completly useless against cavalry, at least before they had a spear to get a little self defence and were a reason to pick them instead of the heavy archer (expect the vlandia sharpshooter).
With these changes a lone cavalry player could take down a whole unit of light archer alone, yes you could have a spear unit near them to protect them but this mean there is a unit less fight in melee and they probably block the view of the archers giving them less space to shoot, in one of the next patches there are any plan to create some mode specific perks?
 

AVRC

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@AVRC sorry if i use this thread about cavalry balance of skirmish to talk about captain mode but i like to respond directly to your statment, i would like to ask you if the are any plan to balance this in the captain mode, because without the spear the light archer become completly useless against cavalry, at least before they had a spear to get a little self defence and were a reason to pick them instead of the heavy archer (expect the vlandia sharpshooter).
With these changes a lone cavalry player could take down a whole unit of light archer alone, yes you could have a spear unit near them to protect them but this mean there is a unit less fight in melee and they probably block the view of the archers giving them less space to shoot, in one of the next patches there are any plan to create some mode specific perks?
Archers are more accurate in 1.5.5, they should be fine handling a lone cav player. We will monitor the situation and make changes accordingly.

We are doing some experimentation with perks, too early to say anything tho.
 

hoonii

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edit: in 1.5.5
Faster bows have their damages lowered significantly and cavs, especially heavy, should be able to shrug that damage even if they get hit and slower bows take much longer to draw and aim so they should not be able to move around and spam. Also none of the archers have spears any more.

No match up should be an auto win but cavs should have a very significant advantage over archers. We believe this will be the case in 1.5.5, if it is not we will take measures to make so.
Thank you very much, we'll see how they perform when beta comes live.
 

Spottswoode

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@AVRC sorry if i use this thread about cavalry balance of skirmish to talk about captain mode but i like to respond directly to your statment, i would like to ask you if the are any plan to balance this in the captain mode, because without the spear the light archer become completly useless against cavalry, at least before they had a spear to get a little self defence and were a reason to pick them instead of the heavy archer (expect the vlandia sharpshooter).
With these changes a lone cavalry player could take down a whole unit of light archer alone, yes you could have a spear unit near them to protect them but this mean there is a unit less fight in melee and they probably block the view of the archers giving them less space to shoot, in one of the next patches there are any plan to create some mode specific perks?
Yeah one player of any class can mount a horse in captain and kill all the archers without spears/2h in about a minute tops... Like you said, the answer is keeping some spears nearby... But just like you said that can spell the end of your chances in an infantry fight. It's a tricky one to balance.. I generally only take heavy archers with pole arms for this reason. F4 and f1f3 with glaives / menvs is something cav don't like hanging around for :smile:

I pretty much these days say to light archers (when the enemy has cav and we are looking to attack the enemy and not pay defensive) that they need to stay close to our infantry if they want protection, if they stay out on their own they are probably add good as dead
 
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soul_jak

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Often enough I can only hit the head of the horse trying to snipe the rider off. If a bowman does this to you, you deserve it. Take a chill pill, OP.

All around good comments in this thread.
Archer aim in third person is off if u aim down or a target is close. If they are a few feet in front and u want a head shot aim above the head and u will hit the head.
 

Varadin

Spring chicken
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speed of draw is absurd and should be nerfed . Archers are already way too accurate and good in melee by stats wise .

Shields on cav are already way too small and good archer can shoot can anyway but that laser speed draw is ridicilous. He aim and shoots faster than you actually stab if u just face each other. Ridicilous
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
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speed of draw is absurd and should be nerfed . Archers are already way too accurate and good in melee by stats wise .

Shields on cav are already way too small and good archer can shoot can anyway but that laser speed draw is ridicilous. He aim and shoots faster than you actually stab if u just face each other. Ridicilous
We are precisely dealing with this issue for the SP in this thread; however it would be easy to implement in MP if we had a different true balance, they would only have to modify the parameter "thrust_speed" of each bow. Check this out:

 

AVRC

MP Dev
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We are precisely dealing with this issue for the SP in this thread; however it would be easy to implement in MP if we had a different true balance, they would only have to modify the parameter "thrust_speed" of each bow. Check this out:

SP bows are getting adjusted.