SP - Battles & Sieges I need to put Specific troops into their own group in OOB/pre-deployment, I want more direct control of this.

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Hello my name is Onker, I am an engineer firstly, but I also enjoy to use my crossbow in battle and was looking forward to finally leading my own squad of cross bow men in 1.7 after
the OOB update. Sadly this was not to be as my commander cannot manage to get all the fians and assorted bow archers out of a formation for me to lead! They have their own perks and need their own completely separate group and captain! Please add a simple means to separate them so I can live my dream! But wait there's more.....
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Hello, I am a Khan's guard, I have decent armor and a big big glaive, I can easily take on cavalry and other horse archers up close with very little danger, I just shoot em or I hit em and they die first and I don't. But some of my friends aren't so well armed and they get in trouble when they have to be in the same group as me.....
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Hello, I'm a buck-a-larry?..... broccoli? .... I'm ANOTHER kind of horse archer, though I'm a strong as I can be at tier 5 I have way less armor then my friends the Khan's guard and I have a little baby sword that can't hit nothing no how. When I gotta move into close combat I always get hurt first and IT'S NOT FAIR! I'm really good at support fire though, so that's why I need a easy direct way to be separated from the Khan's guards so I can do my role while they do theirs! Please help us get sorted into our own groups so we can all do our best!

And same for shield and no shield infantry to and such! ?
 
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This will be the second thread in which I am qouting this post, but it seems like the right place to do it, so here we go.
It's my post from the other thread about this topic. I wrote there suggestion how to make this feature in new OOB system:
Well, after all it is not about keeping group selection in the party screen, but about keeping functionalities it provides. Is there a possibilty to do it by adding more filters to the groups then?


Here are my ideas of two new filters which should bring back functionalities that were lost by removing the old system:

#1: Troop type/hero filter.
Description / functionality
- This filter would be in a form of a list that contains specific troop types and heroes which are valid type for picked group. On this list a player would be able to allow, or disallow putting into the group certain troop types and heroes by selecting them on the list, and using group's sliders after that. There would be a separate lists like this for every unit control group. By default, all troop types and heroes compatible with the type of the parent group, would be allowed on those lists. Changing overall main unit type of the group, like from "infantry" to "cavalry", would reset the list and would kick out invalid troop types from this group. Disallowing troop types also would kick them out from the group, after accepting filter changes by closing the list. Also, it could be useful to add a button for allowing/disallowing all troop types which are located on the list.

Example / user story - The player starts some easy battle and wants to create a new group with only imperial recruits and some heroes to level them up faster.
The player picks group 8 and creates there a new melee infantry group, then clicks on the "troop type list" located in this group. After that, the list extends itself, and shows every unit type and hero under player's command which counts as melee infantry.
The player has in his/her party Imperial Legionaries, Imperial Recruits, Imperial Cataphracts, two brothers and a sister with only melee weapons equipped, and few companions with bows. All heroes in the party are on foot, no horses equipped for them.
In that scenario, opened "troop type list" for group 8 shows only legionaries, recruits and all three main hero's siblings - two brothers and one sister. All of these listed troops and heroes are marked as "allowed". At this point, moving any sliders from melee infantry groups can put these troops and heroes into group 8. As we know, the player doesn't want Legionaries in this group, so he/she finds legionaries on the list and clicks on them to disallow them in this group. The player also clicks on the main hero's sister in the list, because she doesn't have good armor yet and might easily die in a fight. Legionaries and main hero's sister are now marked as "disallowed" and cannot be put into this group. After that, the player closes the list which makes this filter's changes to be applied to the unit group.
Now, the player adds only wanted units into group 8 by simply moving its slider to the farthest right position. He/she could also have done that by moving to the farthest left slider of group 1, in which all infantry melee units were put at the start of the battle.

#2: Hero party/other parties filter.
Description / functionality
- This filter would be useful in battles in which the player can command troops from the other parties, like being the leader of an army for example. It would allow the player to separate his/her troops and heroes from the troops of the other parties. This filter could have three or two states picked separately for each group: "allow only troops from own party", "allow any troops", and optional "allow only troops from the other parties". "Allow any troops" would be the starting, default state.

Example / user story - A player is leading an army and wants to minimize loses in a big battle. The idea he/she has is to take the first, hardest hit in the battle with his/her own infantry units, because high Medicine skill gets them mostly unconscious instead of getting them killed. Other lords' Medicine skill is significantly lower which makes their units more vulnerable.
The player wants to make an infantry group responsible for tanking most of the damage by putting all his/her Imperial Legionaries into group 8. The problem is, the other lords in the army also have Legionaries in their parties. Luckly, there is a filter for this. The player sets it to "Allow only troops from own party" for group 8, and doesn't change it for the other groups leaving their filters on the default state "Allow all troops".
Just like in the earlier example, moving the slider of the group is all the player needs to do after setting the right filter.



I think this would be a better solution than just adding one group for heroes and calling it a day, but maybe I am wrong. I am open to other ideas. I also think that proposed by others addition of one group for heroes still would be better than leaving new Order of Battle system at the current state.
 
@Ananda_The_Destroyer

You and I have been preaching to the choir about the new OoB system and the troop assignment!

The new system would have been amazing if only they allowed the old troop "micromanagement".
They did respond to one of my posts saying they could not keep the old system along with the new one due to some coding/scripting issues, which is understandable, however I would really like them to implement a better assignment system.

I am a bit worried that it may not happen as they have not given any indication that they are working on improving the new OoB/assignment system, it's completely radio silence at this point even though this is one of the issues that has been raising the most noise lately.

We'll see what happens...
 
honestly they can make a freaking table in excel spreadsheets for you to drag drop your troops into 8 different formations.
wouldn't be hard to be able to split a group of 20 khans guards into 2 different formations,
it's such basic data management like a junior dev can do this
 
honestly they can make a freaking table in excel spreadsheets for you to drag drop your troops into 8 different formations.
wouldn't be hard to be able to split a group of 20 khans guards into 2 different formations,
it's such basic data management like a junior dev can do this

How do you seperate 4 groups with Hastati - pilum men and 4 groups of Princeps - Pilum men , both equipped the same ... or 1 group of "Knights of Malta" and 1 group of "Templar Knights", both equipped the same, only difference is robes of different colors ... OR .. Accensi speamen militia and Elite light spearmen, both equipped the same...

gooble ... gobble ..

HARD CODED CONSOLE CRAP ..

.
 
How do you seperate 4 groups with Hastati - pilum men and 4 groups of Princeps - Pilum men , both equipped the same ... or 1 group of "Knights of Malta" and 1 group of "Templar Knights", both equipped the same, only difference is robes of different colors ... OR .. Accensi speamen militia and Elite light spearmen, both equipped the same...
because categorizing by equipment is absolutely retarded and should be abandoned immediately

how about we categorize by, here's a wild concept " unit name" eh? i mean unless you have the same exact identical name clones how can this be not ideal?

lets say i have 40 hastati and 40 princepes.

group 1 add: 5 hastati, 10 princepes
group 2 add: 10 hastati, 5 princepes
group 3 add: 15 hastati, 15 princepes
group 4 add: 10 hastati, 10 princepes

boom done. now you can easily design some in game UI so you just click units and put numbers and they'll get shoved into respective formations

btw, they had the formation saved system, just not split same troop type into different formations which just requires a couple extra lines of code.
their old system adds a formation tag to the troop type. but instead a formation group can be made have troops put into the groups. this allows you to split same type of troop into groups
HARD CODED CONSOLE CRAP ..
how dumb must you be to think that? do you run excel on consoles?
 
What are you talking about ??

How do you differentiate soldiers by "Name" in the current system ??? We have stupid sliders and check-boxes based on vague equipment categories.

You must be looking a different game ? 1.7.1 ? yes ?

.
 
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We have stupid sliders and check-boxes based on vague equipment categories.
you have to understand that's just the UI and the frontend interface
not the actual data
they merely refractored the codes to have a different management/organizing/sorting/filtering system which is much worse than before.

it can be turned back. in fact when i get time in a few months i can start working on a mod that overrides their current formation system
 
+ 1

I noted a suggestion post in this as well.

Has anyone released a mod that overrides this yet? This change should be an optional setting. I miss micromanaging my troops.
 
i agree. the management in the group window was maybe a little bit cloncky, but i could give my 2 handed infantry the number 2 and put them in the second infantry line. now they are just not worth it imo, when i think about how strong range weapons still are.
 
100% agreed. Removing party screen formation assignments was a bold move. Now they need to refine the pre-battle deployment to match the customizability of the old system. Else it's a downgrade.

The devs should start with adding more preferences especially ones that are specific to the unit type. Lance / Spear for Cav, Bow / Crossbow for archers for starters. Imo the preferences need to be more than just a preference but also a hard cap for who is assigned. Because pulling the sliders a little too far already assigns the non-preferenced units to formations too, which is a big no-no.

Another option which i'd warmly welcome would be selecting specific units to allow into formations like we alrady do in custom battle setup or when raiding bandit hideouts. Like this:

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or this:
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Both of these UI tools already exist and offer far more control over assignments than sliders and preferences.
 
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