I just had a thought. Rare as it may seem...

[Worbah]

There's been a lot of complaint about the couched lance damaage, and that it should be reduced. I just had a thought. What if it stays the way it is, BUT, your enemy might get impaled by the lance. Realism is wanted, IMO this adds it. Gore is wanted, this definitely adds it (Imagine a dying man struggling at the end of your lance). And CLD needs to be made less useful, this does it. You would have to free your lance of the bandit that is skewered by the weapon, possibly by kicking him while on horseback. Might look more than discouraging to his friends...



BTW, this could also be extended to cover spears, while on foot. I find spears inefficient yet fast at the moment, which doesn't really do them justice. If they were more powerful yet slightly slower, and you had to remove the corpse (not always though. You don't always penetrate the body, only if you use a lot of strength in your hit.) after the killing strike, they wouldn't unbalance the game too much while still being useful against a smaller group of foes.

I can already imagine countless of M&B players making new polearm oriented characyters all called Vlad Tepes.

 

[Bossman]

Best way to balance it is making it break easily. In reallife a lance could only be used in maybe one charge, after that it was sword time.

 

[[P]aradox]

Hardly so, Bossman. Yes, tournament lances were built to shatter on direct hits, but lances used for battle were much sturdier.

 

[Captain Black]

War Lances were strong but with 200+ lbs of dead human hanging off the end, its not going to be usable more than once. When Knights went to war they had a squire handing them new lances once they impaled a victim.

I suggest we have more than one lance in inventory, and just give a random chance to have the one we use get stuck (only for couched damage) in the target soldier. I would also like to see disarming/being disarmed implemented. I use a Heavy Great Axe a lot while mounted and when I swing it, and the target uses his mace, light axe, etc. to block, I want to see it ripped out of his hand leaving him to choose a new weapon or run away defensless.

C.

 

[Ancientwanker]

If impaling is implemented the lance should break off as well. This would avoid the silly graphic of a 15 foot lance sticking out of the model. It would look fine if he was dead but not so good if he was still walking around. haha.

Maybe just have a javelin sized fragment stick and the rest break off in the players hand. Be cool if the player was left with a long broken stick and could use it as a club. ha.

 

[Mordhak]

I can already imagine countless of M&B players making new polearm oriented characyters all called Vlad Tepes.

Nah... mine will be called Vlad The Impaler

Mind the irony... Vlad and his relation to the Turks

Anyhow, I like your idea. All weapons should also have a chance to be shattered when parrying a particularly heavy blow, maybe have hitpoints like the shields.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

When Knights went to war they had a squire handing them new lances once they impaled a victim.

So what you're saying is..... this game needs a Squire character who can apprentice to us!

Good thinking, that man.

 

[DaLagga]

Weapons having hitpoints is a good idea. What happens though if you break an enemies only weapon? They'd certainly have to implement the "using your fists" suggestion. But the thing about the lance... Outside of the arena the lance sucks if you ask me. Why do we need to nerf it? Sure, its excellent against 1 or 2 opponents. But in battles the enemies tend to travel in big clumps. The lance can only damage someone directly infront of it, which means anyone on the ground can easily slash your side as you pass. Its more useful against cavalry though, but aside from dark knights, almost every enemy party has a ton of infantry. Although i haven't gotten my polearm much above 120ish, the damage doesn't seem that great considering you pretty much get 1 attack per pass. So in the end it does very little damage over time. I saw a screenshot someone took showing off their CLD, and it was like...160something. I've done 209 before with my 2handed great axe In the end though enemies being impaled is cool, but not for the sake of "balance", the lance is already balanced(outside of the arena of course).

 

[Worbah]

I've managed to kill dozens of enemies with CLD, without taking any damage. Since it's a powerful hit&run attack that enemies have virtually no protection against without ranged weapons. If you manage to attack the edges of a group of enemies, you won't be stopped.

 

[GreenKnight]

Sorry, but I'm definitely with DaLagga on this one. I don't know who's been complaining that it's too powerful...probably those folks who are always bragging about how enemies can't touch them. But I agree that attacking the edges of a tightly packed group of infantry without your horse getting turned into mince meat is not a trivial task. And as he said, you're talking about one hit per attack run. One hit, then you have to keep running until you have enough of a lead to get your momentum up returning to hit them again. Clearly, those hits have to really count, and still there are times when that doesn't finish them off, which is neither satisfying, nor realistric. If anything, getting hit with the point of a lance with that much momentum behind it should do more damage, not less.

 

[raggedyman]

been covered already)

I think, and I haven't tested it yet to see if it's possible, so bear with me, but I think there should be a bonus for foot units who set to receive a horse charge either using spears or possibly lances.

I don't know how easy it would be to code that, but it seems that being able to set a spear/lance against a charge would surely level the playing field a bit, and reinforce the idea of combined arms, at least on the battlefield, since the spearmen setting to receive the charge would be open to the archers attending the horsemen who would in turn be vulnerable...and so forth.

In a way, I guess it would be reverse CLD. The damage should work on the same principle, but maybe if a spearmen/lancer stays still, holds the block button or something, they go into "Couched Charge Damage" or whatever you want to call it. Of course, the majority of the damage would go to the horse.

I can't get enough of this game...where's the support group gonna meet?

 

[Little Raven]

Sorry, but I'm definitely with DaLagga on this one. I don't know who's been complaining that it's too powerful...probably those folks who are always bragging about how enemies can't touch them.

Trust me, I'm hardly one of the guys that thinks this game is too easy. I still run screaming from every Dark Knight group I see.

What bothers me about the lance is not its power, but the fact that it has no weaknesses. You can 'poke' someone on your flank with a lance...which is utterly ridiculous if you think about it. If your horse gets killed...no problem! The lance is still an awesome weapon. Your superior range means you can continue poke at people from a safe range. And since it's impossible for someone to get 'inside' a weapons range with the current engine, you don't have to worry about someone closing distance. Just keep poking. All will be well.

That's just silly. A lance in the hands of a foot soldier is all but useless. It isn't even a very effective spear. It was a very specialized weapon in real life. In this game...it's a good all around weapon.

 

[corksacker69]

it has been suggested about 500000x on the forums , but ill say it again, and everyone say it with me: 2 HANDED POLEARMS USED BY A FOOT SOLDIER SHOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO DISMOUNT A RIDER FROM A CHARGING HORSE.

 

[The Pope]

/Signed. Seeing a black knight fly off his horse and fall to the ground with half of your lance sticking out of his gut would be so impressive I don't have a superlative long enough to describe it. Of course, you should be able to use spears and polearms against charging cavalry with similar effects. Another thing I'd like to see on the couched lance is have a slight cone that the lance can be aimed in, and making shields have some effect. The idea is that you could aim the lance over the shield to avoid it, though they would be knocked over and significantly damaged even if they did manage to successfully block. Currently it looks like a joust would be two knights running straight at each other and pure chance deciding whose hit "counted".

 

[DaLagga]

Exactly my thoughts about the jousting idea Pope. A few people have suggested the idea, but under the current system, it would just be a matter of random luck and not fun in the least. And as for aiming the lance, you still couldn't aim it over a shield. When your shield is up, its as though your enire front side is shielded. The thing that i find funny is how if you hit a horse in the head thats charging you...their shield mysteriously teleports infront of the horse and blocks the hit.

 

[[GSF]Bang]

But the thing about the lance... Outside of the arena the lance sucks if you ask me. Why do we need to nerf it? Sure, its excellent against 1 or 2 opponents. But in battles the enemies tend to travel in big clumps. The lance can only damage someone directly infront of it, which means anyone on the ground can easily slash your side as you pass.

I am guessing that you haven't spent any time with a lance. with it, I can wipe out an entire enemy force without ever taking damage. All that I have to do is let them get to an open space and charge, turn around charge again taking one of them at a time. There is only a rare occasion when the lance doesn't kill with the first pass. Genereally, I have wiped out the enemy before my foot soldiers have even shown up.

 

[Captain Black]

When Knights went to war they had a squire handing them new lances once they impaled a victim.

So what you're saying is..... this game needs a Squire character who can apprentice to us!

Good thinking, that man.

I wasnt actually saying that, but since you did, it got me to thinking...

What about having the ability to hire a squire that would really just stand at your bagage area and allow us to access our inventory without dismounting? He would be unarmed, and thus must be defended else lose the ability to access the bagage. Having him standing there holding a banner would also make it easier to keep track of the location of the bagage too, which I find can be a problem when fighting large groups of stronger foes. Not unbalancing, I think this might be worth adding.

C.

 

[Rogge]

What about having the ability to hire a squire that would really just stand at your bagage area and allow us to access our inventory without dismounting? He would be unarmed, and thus must be defended else lose the ability to access the bagage. Having him standing there holding a banner would also make it easier to keep track of the location of the bagage too, which I find can be a problem when fighting large groups of stronger foes. Not unbalancing, I think this might be worth adding.

That must be one of the worst jobs I've ever heard of. "Hey you, unarmed guy, stand here on the battlefield holding this flag while me and the other people ride around you waving our weapons at the other guys doing the same. We'll try not to hit you too much."

 

[Captain Black]

I'm sure it was a crappy job, but it is one of the "former occupations" before becoming an adventurer.

C.

 

[[GSF]Bang]

What about having the ability to hire a squire that would really just stand at your bagage area and allow us to access our inventory without dismounting?

You actually can access your inventory without dismounting right now. You just have to be careful about where you look so that you are not looking at your horse but are close enough to access the bag.