I have concerns over the Mid and Late Game in v1.1.0 Beta and feel the gameplay has been degraded from previous versions.

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First I must say, this is for un-modded Beta v1.1.0, although comparisons to previous versions will be made. This is not a bug report as it is too broad to report, it is for discussion. We are all aware that the game is still in development and this is not a point of argument here. I complete campaigns on most versions of the Bannerlord, just for comparison of the problems I will discribe.

In short, the basic gameplay loop of defeating factions and taking fiefs and creating/recruiting clans to paint the map has been compromised in a variety of ways.
1: Vassals, both player faction and AI seem even more docile at defending from sieges or defeating enemies then in previous versions .
2: Parties coming to fight together to attack a besieger does not seem to happen anymore. I have taken half the map and not once have I seen the behavior I'm used to where parties or smaller armies will come and wait and attack when enough show up.
3: Factions that have no fiefs, or very few fiefs seem to easily attack other factions and take more fiefs, both from player and AI factions.
4: AI Armies, other then the largest possible seem docile and slow to do anything productive. Meanwhile a army of 1k can chain siege fiefs undisturbed, even if an appropriate amount of smaller armies exist, they seem to not care/know.

What this does create a situation that players call Wack-a-Mole, no matter how well you've created you faction. Even with much greater power and amount of clans and starting in a good location, unlike in previous version, the AI can somehow easily re-take fiefs from you causing you to have to re-take them, But because the AI can do this somehow even with no fiefs, it can just happen again and again. And of course there will enemies on the other side of the map too, so the overall feeling of progress and satisfaction of playing the game is dramatically compromised. Most player simply do not want to have repetitive loops of the same exact content with no feeling of progress.

Now lets keep in mind long standing problems and concerns that effect this.
1 No control over vassal or armies! Even though you have superior numbers and power, it's useless because you are dependent on the AI's calculations for their actions and if for some reason they aren't helping and doing useful things it's not different then just playing as your own clan, even though you have 30+ vassals.
2 No diplomacy gameplay, war/peace tributes system is not very useful. The game just calculates constantly to make new wars so even if you make peace to focus on one or two factions it seems to just increase the chances of another war being declared. We all know how the calculation is made to stop snowballing, but it's not useful or appropriate for the players interactions with the AI. In short: Player needs to paint the map as this is the only gameplay that exists.
3 Vassals will vote for more wars even when you have several going and they aren't helping at all. It makes no sense. Vassals can just vote again and again too.
4 Clans will stop joining you (even if all normal conditions are met) when you faction has an amount of clans (20? 25?). This means you can't recruit all the normal clans in the game and since they don't leave the game they persist as enemies forever. This was less harmful in past versions but in Beta v1.1.0 they seem to re-take your fiefs much easier and seem to be ignored by your vassals very often.

Keep in mind that there is not other gameplay in bannerlord but battles and siege's, painting the map is the only activity and no other content exists in the future plans either. This is not meant as a complaint, just to point out that it's not okay to make the AI incompetent at defending so that the map cannot be taken in a reasonable way, as this is the sole activity of the game. If you can't make reasonable progress and hold you lands with superior power and number of clans, you might as well just load custom battle and fight individual battles all day as the rest of the game looses all meaning.

Another unrelated but odd issue I've seen is that occasionally a wander turned into a clan leader will "be lost from the game", they weren't in combat and were only 30 so this was not a normal type of death. By re-loading it could be avoided, meaning it was some type of roll from the game. It is likely a bug from the process where wanderers are removed sometimes form the game, but obviously this is not appropriate for wanderers turned into vassals.

Another issue I have is the pre-deployment of siege battles sometimes does not let you separate non-ranged form ranged. I know it is because it is only giving X a small mount of non-ranged, but these non ranged being in with ranged makes them vulnerable to attack as they can't be put in shield wall (without compromising the ranged troops). Even if I have only 20 or less, I want to use them independently as infantry. I also notice I am not able to move anything into groups 1 and 3 some times, but by changing group 2 to infantry I can then add things to these groups, then change group 2 back to ranged and have the 4 groups I want, it is strange and I don't understand it.

Of course all of the other past siege problems like troops not using the ladders very well and enemies getting stuck in walls still exist.

Anyways this stuff is too broad and non-understood to report as bugs, but we can discus it.
 
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In short, the basic gameplay loop of defeating factions and taking fiefs and creating/recruiting clans to paint the map has been compromised in a variety of ways.
1: Vassals, both player faction and AI seem even more docile at defending from sieges or defeating enemies then in previous versions .
2: Parties coming to fight together to attack a besieger does not seem to happen anymore. I have taken half the map and not once have I seen the behavior I'm used to where parties or smaller armies will come and wait and attack when enough show up.
3: Factions that have no fiefs, or very few fiefs seem to easily attack other factions and take more fiefs, both from player and AI factions.
4: AI Armies, other then the largest possible seem docile and slow to do anything productive. Meanwhile a army of 1k can chain siege fiefs undisturbed, even if an appropriate amount of smaller armies exist, they seem to not care/know.
I'd say all this in particular should have a homing beacon on it since the core gameplay loop depends on the intelligence of the A.I. I guess I shouldn't have downloaded the latest patch (on a console, so I can't exactly keep a backup of prior patches) if the next one could easily kneecap the game... EDIT: Glad I caught the download and paused it before it could finish. Turns out 2 hour downloads have their upsides at times lol.

If these issues weren't fixed with the official patch, I think it should all be reported as bugs and given a lot of attention since, well, nothing's more important for Bannerlord's core functionality than its A.I. Everything else is a secondary concern by comparison.
 
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I've been plodding on happily on v1.0.3, so, I'm concerned with this now that v1.1.0 is live. I'd hate to believe that:
  • Several performance improvements were made for both battles and the campaign map.
have lobotomised AI to reduce the processing load for consoles and potato pcs. @Ananda_The_Destroyer what level of campaign AI are you playing with?

PS just backed up my saved game files in case I need to revert to v1.0.3 after an auto-update.
 
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Many of us already complained about how campaign map AI sucks and you tell me it's even worse now? Great. I hope this company bankrupts someday. FTW!!!!!!
 
Are you on pc or Xbox? I wonder if there is a difference between the two. I'd love to play the new patch on xbox but they pulled it back and I have no idea when they'll push it back up for us.
 
And i suppose we will never know if it's the case...
We will if performance keep improving and AI keep getting worse as it seems to be the case so far, both for agent AI (compared to start of early access) and campaign AI (compared to before).
I definitely noticed the AI not caring at all about going to defend fiefs being sieged by enemies and not even bothering to create armies at times, or preferring to go around with a massive army in the middle of nowhere hunting the ghostly parties of a should be extinct faction while we get eaten up on the opposite side of the map.
 
Good points from original poster. I just stopped playing my recent play through a week ago just because all he has mentioned. My faction got into exactly that position > being the strongest but at the same time not. Part of the world between Lagetha and Khuzait lands has become a neverending wack-a-mole. Cities being pillaged repeatedly by both antagonist parties (Battania vs Empire) dropping prosperity to mere 1000. Villages permanently raided by those pesky fiefless clans miniparties to the number of hearths you could count on fingers of your both hands.
I have started yet another playthrough few days ago. This time with a rough idea to have just my warband consisted of bandits mostly and some mercs/caravan guards to complement cavalry.
I gave myself a silly target (because with this game I just ran out if ideas) to conquer as many cities as possible while being independant clan. To laugh at still persisting game "feature" that as independant clan NO ONE can declare a war on me.
4 years into game time, not even trying hard, and I already own 4/5 of Battania cities + 3 in Sturgia. Just conquered rebelling Revyl yesterday while 1500+ army of Derthert was just looking at my 10 times smaller band while erraticly zigzaging around 😄
 
Once you own that ~5 towns or so, whether independent or with a kingdom, it's the same for the next 20+ towns/castles.
Barely any new clans are created either - rebellions don't last long enough as before, which I'm ok with due to there being absolutely no diplomacy/politics mechanics to make rebellions/civil wars do anything meaningful anyways.

There should be another % chance factor for a new clan to be created (besides via rebellions); maybe a newlywed couple splinters to make their own small clan, and/or %chance to go to either kingdoms (if marriage is not within same kingdom), and/or chance for clan to splinter if it gets too big (as they do after 20+years).

Probably doesn't solve the common late-game woes, but maybe in keeping the map in 'tiny' clans - opens more opportunities for clans to flip-flop sides/alliances than currently allowed without completely swinging the power to another kingdom. Tie it more importantly with influence/relation/trait factors (vs easily being +100 with your entire kingdom of 100 clans' members) or even the poorly implemented policy system.

We have hardcoded 8 kingdoms (player excluded), rebellions only join one of those, and defeated kingdoms serve no purpose. If there was a possibility to also create more kingdoms (3 for each like NE/WE/SE), maybe gives defeated kingdoms better chance to come back from the dead or more ebb&flow elements like we sort of have between SE/WE/NE.
 
In feudal times, owning land and bondage to it was everything. In this game it means nothing. If there is a war, and city/castle is lost to enemy, original "owner" doesn't give a rats ass to take it back. His kingdom rather attacks some far away city/castle, because game code is whispering to its ear that it has the least amount of soldiers in it. As silly as it can get.
Rebelling city must be on the side of its de jure owner. Not to create some independent entity just waiting for my warband to take it over.
So many non-sensical game mechanics that it's not even worth writing further 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
3: Factions that have no fiefs, or very few fiefs seem to easily attack other factions and take more fiefs, both from player and AI factions.
This is a very noticeable difference in v1.1.0. Once a faction is landless it should be financially constrained. Equally, some clan leaders of that landless faction should be asking to join the faction owning their ancestral lands in exchange for getting those fiefs back irrespective of their personal relationships. Some (not all) clan leaders would swallow their pride and make deals with the devil to reinstate their clan’s fortunes. They should be sending messengers with proposals to this effect similar to peace proposals IMO.
1: Vassals, both player faction and AI seem even more docile at defending from sieges or defeating enemies then in previous versions .
2: Parties coming to fight together to attack a besieger does not seem to happen anymore. I have taken half the map and not once have I seen the behavior I'm used to where parties or smaller armies will come and wait and attack when enough show up.

4: AI Armies, other then the largest possible seem docile and slow to do anything productive. Meanwhile a army of 1k can chain siege fiefs undisturbed, even if an appropriate amount of smaller armies exist, they seem to not care/know.
I’m less certain on this (as in v1.0.3 vs v1.1.0). I’m definitely finding my faction less capable of fielding effective armies but I’m also seeing enemy armies acting in concert. I faced four Vlandian armies all working on the same sequence of siege targets at such close intervals that three of them participated in the same siege. I lost several fiefs before I could divide and conquer them and retain enough Lord prisoners to go on the offensive again. Retaining prisoners and refusing peace seems the only way to keep them weakened, which drains both factions. After a heavy defeat the peace should be for a stated minimum of x weeks. Agreeing to peace to return all the prisoners so that faction can recruit new parties and declare war again two days later breaks immersion.
I don’t mind the lack of control over vassal armies when they are doing something sensible, but I definitely find the failure of vassal clan leaders to take any responsibility for the defence and garrisoning of newly granted fiefs irritating.
 
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There is something I noticed. Nobles's (lords or ladies) ransom are very low now (before 3000-5000, now (300-500) dinars.
 
It´s kinda incredible. I like the early and mid part of the game, but later it always felt bland, repetitiv and aimless. Now somehow TW managed to make that even worse. You still have the same issues as before, but whereas vassals had some use before, now they are more and more a problem rather then a help. The most efficient (and least annoying) way to play the game seems to be a solo clan and just kill everyone.
 
There is something I noticed. Nobles's (lords or ladies) ransom are very low now (before 3000-5000, now (300-500) dinars.
YES! I forgot about this, but I saw it too! It wasn't all of them all the time, but at some points I went to dump them at each of like 20 poisoners was only a few hundred almost like it was divided by 10(of the normal ransom) or something. Very odd.
The most efficient (and least annoying) way to play the game seems to be a solo clan and just kill everyone.
Agreed. It's sad because in past versions it had got to be that making vassals ASAP became almost as fast as just executing everyone, but now we return to the chopping block because the vassals won't pull their weight.
I’m also seeing enemy armies acting in concert.
You're right, I did notice armies siege together. I guess what I'm seeing specifically them ignoring enemy armies and sieges and also not coming to stop me during a siege at all pretty much.
 
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