i have a suggestion for char advancement

[thorins]

hi all you hard working devs ,

i have been watching the growth of my char and i see some small needs. i was wondering if you would consider using a skill based exp setup? since we are looking for realisim in this game, wouldnt it be closer to "real" by haveing the skills you use actually do the advancing.

lets look at the chr stats first.

str. this could advance by your use of weapons and heavy armor so every action you gain exp toward you str improvement.

agi. this could be advanced by your use of some weapons but more of thrown and bow use as well as running

int. you could get creative with this by adding books and "schools" for your improvement as well as field exp

cha. this can be advanced by your actions and interactions with others your bartering and haggleing in shops and the such.

all of your base stats should of course affect your skills but i allso think ther should be at least 2 more added and those being constitution and dexterity. imo.

now on to the skills.

first skill i consider is your hit points. this should be a guide of how tough you are .....right? well then i think every time you take damage you should slowly start to get tougher. for example you start wtih lets say 20 hp every point of damage you take could translate into exp for your hit points. so to go from 20 to 21 lets say you need 100 exp which means you need to take 100 points of damage to advance. just an example.

next is iron skin this could be eliminated with the use of the previous example

next is power strike if you keep this i think this should be hard earned by gaining a pre-set number of max damage strikes. and that number should be rather high lets say to go from 0 to 1 you need 200 max damge strikes but the reward should be fair but not over powering. lets say a bonus 2 points of damage or 5% for example.

next power throw this should as well measure you distance and accuracy of the thrown weapon not so much the abilaty to use the weapon.

next power draw ............i dont really like this skill because i feel that your str should determine this abillaty. either you can pull the draw weight or you cant. but if you keep this then it should measure your accuracy not the abillaty to pull the string.

next weapon master.....i think should be changed to weapon mastery thus directly refering to you abilaty to use a weapon or weapons. this is where ther should be a sub list of all the different weapons. each weapon has its own feel and heft there for each weapon has to be handled differently. and of course the more you use the particular weapon the better you get at using it . since this is a combat sim then lets get to the real simulations just because you can swing a short sword dosnt mean you can be efficient with a broad sword but the more you use any sword the more adept you are with that class of weapon. so the short of it is this you could develope the use of one weapon to a super fine artist edge or you could be a reasonalble master at arms with several weapons. and your weapon mastery score would reflect the class of weapon you are strongest in and not a score per say. for example you have used the nordic sword as your main weapon since you started and have a rating of 75% mastery but youve used a short and a few times youve use a broad but have never picked up a pole arm or bow then your weapon mastery would be :weapon mastery swords nordic 75 with a 100 being a perfect score. or you have used a little of every weapon in the game all the time just to keep it balanced ( i dont know why some one would do this) then your mastery would be : weapon mastery all (which ever weapon happens to have the highest score.

next is shield fairly simple you advance this by useing a shield. and exp is based on sucesful blocks. the benifit would be the abilaty to block better with any shield giving a % reduction in shield damage. and maybe at higher lvls you could learn to use you shield as a weapon as well. .

next is athletics.....this is another i feel could be eliminated by just using your agi. stat. but if kept then maybe it could be used as a rating of how fast you can actually move. i dont know just an idea.

next ride .....i think this should be changed to equestrian ( just for some class) but advancement should come from actually riding a horse....and maybe a sub list for abillaty to ride different horses and for different personalitys ie swayback lame normal heavy and spirited with stubborn being very dificult to master.

horse archery this simpley would be actually firing a bow or crossbow or throwing a weapon from horse back.

next is trainning this should be directly related to your vast knowledge or lack of it. if you know something then you can teach it if you dont well ..........you cant. the out come of your class could be related to you int. for the quality of the knowledge learnd by your students.

next is traking and on and on and on i think you get the idea by now of what im saying. if we gain any advancements they should be from direct use not a pool of point. now as for lvls this could be done by the number of total points you have in your skills. for instance once you have 10 skill points you could go from lvl 0 pesant to a lvl 1 troop for example and at every lvl up you can have the coveted skill point to add to your 10 any where you want to put it. this is just an example but i felt i needed to express it. thanks for listening

 

[The Pope]

Why would agility be based on bows? It's more a matter of strength and technique. Swordsmanship, on the other hand, would require a lot of agility. Damn RPG cliches.

 

[Sir Prince]

I think a healthy mix is a good idea. Or jsut keep the current system. If it isn't hard, skills increasing through use is a good idea, maybe for MB2.

 

[parduz]

Why would agility be based on bows? It's more a matter of strength and technique. Swordsmanship, on the other hand, would require a lot of agility. Damn RPG cliches.

'cause "aiming" should be considered a "subset" of agility. Using Hard and powerfull bows it's a matter of stength. Firerate can be dependent of agility. Good aiming imho don't fit in Str, Int or Cha..... i will put aiming in Agi too.
So now we have 2 Agi things vs 1 Str.... then bow was related to Agi (IMHO!)

Having played a lot of RPG, the problem is "how much STATs you have?"
The less you have, the more "strange things" you find

 

[Manitas]

I don't like some of the details of your idea, but generally I'm all for levelless systems, so I give it a 2.

 

[Olorin]

i like this idea, kinda of like the morrowind system, the more you use something the btter you are at it...sounds cool (tho it is already in use with the weapons)

 

[Ryuta]

This is a good idea though I disagree.

The reason is, There're skills that is used automatically. Medical skills, Trade, Pathfinding, Tracking etc. are automatic and you can't deside if they are used or not. You could say that they will be increase in time but that makes the skills not really interesting, or beneficial.
The second reason is this make it harder to change your type of play. I had a awful lot of problems in Morrowind when I tried to change the playstyle.

 

[Manitas]

skill
n.
1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.

Hmm, maybe if a 'skill' is hard to implement that so it improves with use, it means that it's not worth including as a game skill?

used automatically. Medical skills, Trade, Pathfinding, Tracking etc. are automatic and you can't deside if they are used or not

Trade - bought something, sold it for more - made a good bargain, let's reward him a few skill points.
Tracking - certain distance travelled along the tracks of a certain group triggers skill points award. (prevents from gaining them if roaming randomly)
etc..

The second reason is this make it harder to change your type of play. I had a awful lot of problems in Morrowind when I tried to change the playstyle.

In levelless systems skills adapt to your playstyle, if done correctly. MW was somewhat flawed at that.

 

[Ryuta]

Just I'd like to ask, how to decide it's good bargain? When you made profit, true. Then the computer has to remember every item's price when it's bought, not the avarage price. And I believe M&B has a fixed price economy, not dynamix?
And for Tracking, or pathfinding, that sort of improvement makes these skills feel less beneficial. I can't explain, but I feel putting my precious skill point to these skill makes me feel these skills very special.

And for Morrowind, I cannot say. It could be possible to say that combining skill point system and level-up-by-use system would be a worth thinking. But I still feel OK with current system.

 

[maw]

maybe a mix of both - skills defined as 'Knowledge based Skills' such as medical that require much knowledge boosted by practice, and 'Practiced Skills' such as combat stuff that you can read about but don't get good without practicing it by beating somebody up with your sword. seems most of what i see in the game falls into the 'Practiced Skills' sort.

ability to hit is already kind of addressed when i get bonuses in combat for weapon use. percentage chance to hit.... but as one post pointed out, the more you use your muscles, the stronger you get, the harder you hit and more armor you should be able to carry, and the faster you'll be - the more you shoot a bow, the better you get at hitting things and easier it is to pull the bow, the more you manipulate and argue with a merchant, the better deal you should be able to get, etc... i think Tactical should only improve through a series of successful battles reflecting you get better as you learn through winning. Leadership should imnpact numbver and quality of recruits found , and increases through battles won compared against the number of friendlies lost in the battle - if you burn through troops as fodder, no one wants to join you, but if you win with minimal losses, everyone wants to join you.

so some skill sets should improve only with use and not as a selection, while others should increase by selection amplified by use. but you aint never gonna get good at taking down a dark knight by reading about it. ya just gotta find out what works and do it - then do it a lot to get better. maw

 

[thorins]

hi all,

thanks for all the input. i didnt mean for any of my examples to be taken literally only the spirit of the idea. thanks any way

 

[Manitas]

Just I'd like to ask, how to decide it's good bargain? When you made profit, true. Then the computer has to remember every item's price when it's bought, not the avarage price.

Yeah, you got me on that. But that was just a quick example. In M&B the trigger could be every act of buying goods at lowered price, and selling at increased. More in general - the increase could be proportional to the minimum of the two: total sold and total bought. Anyway I prefer some economy system than a fixed buy/sell ratio at around 10:1 that needs to be fixed by a skill.

Experience levels were invented to reduce the ammount of manual calculations performed during live rpg sessions, but it looks like people got attached to them.

 

[Morbo]

Personally I like the current system well enough, and I'm very much used to it too.
But that isn't to say that I'd mind seeing a more Morrowind style system as some call it, IF it's implemented properly. Morrowind itself was a bit flawed at that, and some of the flaw in its leveling system were easily abused. Like sneaking, put yourself in sneak mode behind a stationary npc, jam your sneak key and go watch some tv for a few hours, then when you come back you'd have mad sneaking skills.
Hmmm it's prolly that some skills just aren't made for this, and a combination of the 2 systems would be best.

 

[Volkier]

Personally I like the current system. Stuff like power draw etc. are already linked to strength, while archery skills are already linked to agility. It makes you really decide carefully on what you want to concentrate on etc. so a bit of thinking and calculating is involved, which is good.

Honestly I wouldn't care if it gets changed as long as its not made more simple, but I think that the current system is pretty much creative, is pretty simple, but at the same time needs planning on the player's part. Breaking this balance may result in more head-ache for players and the developers.

Plus this is basically suggesting a full change of the core character advancement, rather than additions, so I would think it would be pretty difficult and demoralising to re-program. Imagine taking half a year to come up with something, create it, and another half a year later somebody asks you to change that into something which may or may not work :