I got roguery to 150 and tried to do the great bandit horde so you don't have to (1.5.4)

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Marajah

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So, new patch hit, I checked it out after some time away from the game and decided to give it a go to see what's new and what wasn't.

A single perk in the reworked thievery tree caught my eye: Thieves Honor - Bandit type troops never defect from your party / Bandit units in the formation you control deal 2% more damage (Party leader / Captain)
Bandit type troops NEVER defect from your party. NEVER, like ever. Oh, the possibilities!
This was going to be a post about tips to get the ultimate bandit horde going, about how to best counter the penalties from being above troop limit, maximizing damage, auto-resolves, smoothing out the grinding, etc... and the glorious sight of drowning those pesky khuzaits in looter stone rain.

Instead it's 1 more salty post about how something doesn't work in the game. After 1 day and a half of grinding I found out the perk doesn't work. Your thieves still have no honor and will just leave to do w/e in broken Calradia. Don't bother with it. Lvling up roguery is an endless cycle of auto-resolve -> running to the nearest town -> selling prisoners -> repeat. Raiding still gives neglectful xp and the other ways mentioned in-game to lvl roguery up still don't work.

I suppose at least archers are finally in a good spot and that's something?
 
So, new patch hit, I checked it out after some time away from the game and decided to give it a go to see what's new and what wasn't.

A single perk in the reworked thievery tree caught my eye: Thieves Honor - Bandit type troops never defect from your party / Bandit units in the formation you control deal 2% more damage (Party leader / Captain)
Bandit type troops NEVER defect from your party. NEVER, like ever. Oh, the possibilities!
This was going to be a post about tips to get the ultimate bandit horde going, about how to best counter the penalties from being above troop limit, maximizing damage, auto-resolves, smoothing out the grinding, etc... and the glorious sight of drowning those pesky khuzaits in looter stone rain.

Instead it's 1 more salty post about how something doesn't work in the game. After 1 day and a half of grinding I found out the perk doesn't work. Your thieves still have no honor and will just leave to do w/e in broken Calradia. Don't bother with it. Lvling up roguery is an endless cycle of auto-resolve -> running to the nearest town -> selling prisoners -> repeat. Raiding still gives neglectful xp and the other ways mentioned in-game to lvl roguery up still don't work.

I suppose at least archers are finally in a good spot and that's something?

It does not surprise me.
 
So, new patch hit, I checked it out after some time away from the game and decided to give it a go to see what's new and what wasn't.

A single perk in the reworked thievery tree caught my eye: Thieves Honor - Bandit type troops never defect from your party / Bandit units in the formation you control deal 2% more damage (Party leader / Captain)
Bandit type troops NEVER defect from your party. NEVER, like ever. Oh, the possibilities!
This was going to be a post about tips to get the ultimate bandit horde going, about how to best counter the penalties from being above troop limit, maximizing damage, auto-resolves, smoothing out the grinding, etc... and the glorious sight of drowning those pesky khuzaits in looter stone rain.

Instead it's 1 more salty post about how something doesn't work in the game. After 1 day and a half of grinding I found out the perk doesn't work. Your thieves still have no honor and will just leave to do w/e in broken Calradia. Don't bother with it. Lvling up roguery is an endless cycle of auto-resolve -> running to the nearest town -> selling prisoners -> repeat. Raiding still gives neglectful xp and the other ways mentioned in-game to lvl roguery up still don't work.

I suppose at least archers are finally in a good spot and that's something?
How did you loose em due to moral loss ? Food ? on the battlefield ? Seems the perk saying they wont defect usually are tied to food shortage or money
 
How did you loose em due to moral loss ? Food ? on the battlefield ? Seems the perk saying they wont defect usually are tied to food shortage or money

Probably just overloading his party, faster and easier than anything else. And he said this:
This was going to be a post about tips to get the ultimate bandit horde going

But I'm thinking it is a mechanic not yet implemented yet, because you have to try to get troops to defect, other than going over party size limits. It's the sort of thing that doesn't happen in a normal playthrough and honestly some of the bandits you can flip are pretty ****ing powerful, even without Disciplinarian.
 
Probably just overloading his party, faster and easier than anything else. And he said this:


But I'm thinking it is a mechanic not yet implemented yet, because you have to try to get troops to defect, other than going over party size limits. It's the sort of thing that doesn't happen in a normal playthrough and honestly some of the bandits you can flip are pretty ****ing powerful, even without Disciplinarian.
ah yeah true that. So cheesing the game didnt work got it ^^
 
Probably just overloading his party, faster and easier than anything else. And he said this:


But I'm thinking it is a mechanic not yet implemented yet, because you have to try to get troops to defect, other than going over party size limits. It's the sort of thing that doesn't happen in a normal playthrough and honestly some of the bandits you can flip are pretty ****ing powerful, even without Disciplinarian.

So he thought he found a cheese and now he's salty because the cheese turned out sour?
 
Well, the patch notes say that they added "campaign side" roguery perks, which I think means they added just the secondary perk effects and the primary effects still aren't working. So maybe your bandit horde idea will work when the perks are finished.
 
still...having this perk to work like that would be op,...like unlimited amount of troops??..i dont think they ever wanted ti create something like that...i think they mean you cant lose bandits through shortage of food etc etc
 
How did you loose em due to moral loss ? Food ? on the battlefield ? Seems the perk saying they wont defect usually are tied to food shortage or money

The tooltip is very clear. NEVER defecting your party is never defecting your party. If they wanted to condition this to specific defections, they should state it properly. Also, it would be sad.
ah yeah true that. So cheesing the game didnt work got it ^^
So he thought he found a cheese and now he's salty because the cheese turned out sour?
You guys underestimate the glory of a good slowly matured cheese.

still...having this perk to work like that would be op,...like unlimited amount of troops??..i dont think they ever wanted ti create something like that...i think they mean you cant lose bandits through shortage of food etc etc
I'd say almost as OP as buying a whole city with gold. Still, you have to consider this might have some funny drawbacks. I was expecting if you get troop numbers high enough, you'd probably be a slug, unable to feed the army and morale would be so low a single bandit killed in battle would mean automatic rout. Maybe I can try that later if they fix this in 6 months or so and the save file is compatible.
You should keep an eye out for the Comprehensive List of Implemented Perks with each patch so that you know what perks work. :wink:
Yup. Should check the code before investing time in these endeavors :sad:
 
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Yeah it's really hard to make units disband other then over limit party so I think that perk is about an un implemented mechanic, like maybe bandit troops have a % to disband without it. Or it's another case of the fake perks that will sit there looking pretty for 6 month and be replaced by something else that does effect the game.

thought he found a cheese
So cheesing the game
Only things that are less effort can be cheese. The default way of playing (recruit troops and ram them into enemies, repeat) is the cheesiest way to play the game. Anything that you spend more time on to prepare then that isn't chees. It could be an exploit but many exploits are much harder to do then standard game play.
 
Yeah it's really hard to make units disband other then over limit party so I think that perk is about an un implemented mechanic, like maybe bandit troops have a % to disband without it. Or it's another case of the fake perks that will sit there looking pretty for 6 month and be replaced by something else that does effect the game.



Only things that are less effort can be cheese. The default way of playing (recruit troops and ram them into enemies, repeat) is the cheesiest way to play the game. Anything that you spend more time on to prepare then that isn't chees. It could be an exploit but many exploits are much harder to do then standard game play.
Well cheese to me is that you exploit something you know the AI cant fight against hens you trying to cheat in a way.
Being tactical is another thing. Im not judging cheesing though since its up to one each what they think is fun as long as its in SP. But to me if i knew it was wrong i wouldnt have felt like i really achieved something
 
The perk, if it was implemented, is not as overpowered as it sounds due to the morale and campaign speed penalty. At most it could be cheesed to power level your medicine by starving your troops or besieging settlements with a single party (enjoy the travel times though lol).
The main use of this perk is to make a true outlaw playthrough viable (hostile to all factions). This way a player can maintain their party without paying wages and gather food by raiding villages instead of buying it.

I don't really know why the devs did not implement it since it took me just a single morning make a personal mod that implements the function.
If people are interested i will upload it to the nexus.
 
I don't really know why the devs did not implement it since it took me just a single morning make a personal mod that implements the function.
If people are interested i will upload it to the nexus.

People are interested, do it.

FWIW, I'm thinking bandit-type troops are going to have a separate defection mechanic as a way of balancing out Disciplinarian.
 
Yeah it's really hard to make units disband other then over limit party so I think that perk is about an un implemented mechanic, like maybe bandit troops have a % to disband without it. Or it's another case of the fake perks that will sit there looking pretty for 6 month and be replaced by something else that does effect the game.
That sounds plausible. They might be planning on adding a feature where outlaw troops just naturally defect over time, regardless of morale or anything else. They'd just be disloyal troops and this perk would be intended as a counter to that. It would make the disciplinarian perk a lot more important and would make a lot more sense than a perk that lets you keep a giant horde without paying or feeding them.
 
Amazing. Why won't TW at least tell us clearly IN-GAME that a perk isn't working. Incredible.
question is if its really working ? or just blocked so you cant cheese with this in mind ? who knows at this point. But yeah idk either why they dont use a sign for it for now...As said before that lock sign would be perfect but heard it was used to be a placeholder sign instead not for no working ones
 
YEEEEEEES!!! Thank you very much. MVP of the post


question is if its really working ? or just blocked so you cant cheese with this in mind ? who knows at this point. But yeah idk either why they dont use a sign for it for now...As said before that lock sign would be perfect but heard it was used to be a placeholder sign instead not for no working ones

Either they intend a special defection rule for bandit troops as speculated above or it's sheer ineptitude

I have been fiddling with the perk for the last hour and it very quickly hits it's not easily abusable, because:
1. Sluggishness. Bigger parties naturally have lower base speed + we get extra speed penalty from being above troop limit + you will need extra horses, which turn into herd penalty if many of your looters die/get wounded, which:
2. Hinders our ability to chase and recruit more bandits
3. Load troops in the garrison for later retrieval and they get upgraded to normal troops, which defect.

Honestly, the perk seems just fine balance-wise at 1st notice. The way I can think of trying to abuse this rn to get a bandit horde is by stuffing your dungeons with bandits and gradually load them into your prisoner party, wait, then gradually recruit as they become available, which would take forever. I'm also going to try loading not-looter lower tier bandits on the garrison to see if a significant amount can be retrieved later.

Ironically, the exploit for getting rare troops gets in the way of doing a huge horde
I'll update progress on this when I have more time
 
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