I don't get how does the tribute system works here!

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Lesbosisles

Lesbosisles

Knight at Arms
So, I've never ever reached the King rank in any kingdom, yet now it's happened and I wage multiple wars with the whole world (because the late game is a constant war without the possibility to take a break, shame). Aaand I don't get how does this system works... The tribute system, I mean. We are the strongest empire on the continent, we have a large amount of manpower, we beat almost anyone, but we still pay tributes to Southern Empire and other factions without any single fief!

An example: a Northern Empire declares war on us. We take 3 or 4 of their cities and a few castles, beat about 3 of their large armies and have a lot of noble prisoners. I open a "Kingdom" tab and see that if we are to offer peace now, we'll have to pay 14k gold per day to THEM as tribute! I'm sorry, but since when the winning side who beats the losing side mercilessly have to pay a tribute? Why? Even when the Northern Empire itself offers peace, they still DEMAND tribute (a sufficiently less amount of gold, ofc, but still they DEMAND, not OFFER). The heck?

In a similar topic I've seen a reply from @mexxico (we miss you, buddy):
Most important factor while determining desire of war score is (total clan war party count * X (X slowly changes according to fiefs kingdom has) + strength) / (total value of your fiefs) ratio. So when you take one of enemy towns its normal enemy's tribute offer reduces. Because now their ratio is increased and your ratio is decreased so they now do not want to finish war. Think something like this X and Y kingdoms have same potential strength but X has 14 fiefs and Y has 10 fiefs in this scenario Y wants war because they think at the end of war they can make 12-12
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So, do I get it right, that to reduce the tribute, I should stop taking over fiefs? Should I play a defensive war which is often a Benny Hill show, when an army of 2000+ men chasing an army of 900 men throughout the whole Calradia? What is the point? And how do I get them to pay me then?
 
Theres no logic,its made so weaker kingdoms get money although they lose so they can fight back for ''balance''.Instead of making clever AI+alliances etc

So AI's logic is ''Ok we have an army of 100 men and we feel that we can take your cities so pay us not to'' makes sense right?
 
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Theofilos said:
Theres no logic,its made so weaker kingdoms get money although they lose so they can fight back for ''balance''.Instead of making clever AI+alliances etc

So AI's logic is ''Ok we have an army of 100 men and we feel that we can take your cities so pay us not to'' makes sense right?
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Wait, seriously? This is intentional? So, winning wars means paying everyone? What? What's the point of wars then anyway?
 
Lesbosisles said:
So, I've never ever reached the King rank in any kingdom, yet now it's happened and I wage multiple wars with the whole world (because the late game is a constant war without the possibility to take a break, shame). Aaand I don't get how does this system works... The tribute system, I mean. We are the strongest empire on the continent, we have a large amount of manpower, we beat almost anyone, but we still pay tributes to Southern Empire and other factions without any single fief!

An example: a Northern Empire declares war on us. We take 3 or 4 of their cities and a few castles, beat about 3 of their large armies and have a lot of noble prisoners. I open a "Kingdom" tab and see that if we are to offer peace now, we'll have to pay 14k gold per day to THEM as tribute! I'm sorry, but since when the winning side who beats the losing side mercilessly have to pay a tribute? Why? Even when the Northern Empire itself offers peace, they still DEMAND tribute (a sufficiently less amount of gold, ofc, but still they DEMAND, not OFFER). The heck?

In a similar topic I've seen a reply from @mexxico (we miss you, buddy):

So, do I get it right, that to reduce the tribute, I should stop taking over fiefs? Should I play a defensive war which is often a Benny Hill show, when an army of 2000+ men chasing an army of 900 men throughout the whole Calradia? What is the point? And how do I get them to pay me then?
Click to expand...
Its not so much that you need to reduce fiefs, its more you need to gain more strength in order for your kingdom not to be considered "over-extended", so really to solve your issue you need to recruit more clans. Think about your kingdom like this, if you have more clans/strength than fiefs you will be considered expansionary (you seem strong), if you have more fiefs than clans/strength you would be overextended, or you could be balanced.

So by taking all of northern empires territory you have put them into the expansionary space because they likely have more clans/strength than fiefs so they think of themselves as able to expand and take back the territory they have lost. Meanwhile by getting more fiefs and likely not getting more clans/strength you have put yourself into the overextended area. Until you get more clan/strength to get back to balanced the NE will want tribute from you because they think you are vulnerable.

I am curious a 14k tribute is a lot and seems like an outlier, are you playing a game made during an older patch?
 
Hey gang!

There is logic in the system and it makes a ton of sense. The best way to think about tribute is as a measure of a kingdom's willingness to wage war against you. The MORE they want you to pay, the MORE they want to be at war with you. The MORE they want to pay you the LESS they want to war with you.

When you take their settlements they are going to want them back, not pack it in and give up. Less territory weakens kingdoms further over time so there is no better time to rebound than the present.

That said, you can 100% take territory from neighbors and have them pay you tribute. Just capture all their nobles. When they can no longer defend their territory they give up because they'll just lose more territory. Also if you have most of their nobles and somebody else wages war against them, their willingness to make peace goes up. It goes up further for every settlement you are currently sieging that they don't have the capacity to defend. (Capturing nobles reduces total strength - you have to capture quite a few as there are a lot of nobles who don't have war parties and will start them as you capture their peers).

Hope this helps!
 
Lesbosisles said:
e have a large amount of manpower, we beat almost anyone, but we still pay tributes to Southern Empire and other factions without any single fief!
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Think of it as you are paying the landless faction to pick away at you enemies and leave you alone. It's like you're financing gorillas and stuff. ???
When there are no enemies left they are like your man hunters.

Lesbosisles said:
So, do I get it right, that to reduce the tribute, I should stop taking over fiefs? Should I play a defensive war which is often a Benny Hill show, when an army of 2000+ men chasing an army of 900 men throughout the whole Calradia? What is the point? And how do I get them to pay me then?
Click to expand...
You want to reduce their field power and preserve yours so I suggest using a smaller army of your own clans (or even just your party) and stopping all thier armies in the field, this of course takes down thier field power and yours can remain in tacked. If you have the perks to hold them prisoner with no escape or at least mounted patrols (can be a governor) it will help a lot to prevent or reduce escapes. You need to capture almost all their lords and mercs before they really care though. Then you can also take some fiefs from them and be calculated to on the payment receiving end. Now doing this sucks and is not fun. It is not fun to "just go defeat all the 1-2k armies with you smaller force and lose too many troops". You can do it (hint: ???) but it isn't fun and I don't want this to be seen as approval or support of the current systems.
Blood Gryphon said:
I am curious a 14k tribute is a lot and seems like an outlier, are you playing a game made during an older patch?
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This payment range is typical in 1.7-1.7.2 for a faction that is rich and was in good shape before the player (hint: ???) takes them all down, then they will pay a huge payment to end the war, but of course in a short time they attack again in full force, so it's just a cheap trick your dum miserable vassals will fall for. If you mean the player faction paying out when they're "winning" maybe 4-5 faction together could be that much but I agree that much to one faction is odd unless you did it on purpose.
 
I've grumbled repeatedly about the diplomacy/tribute system being the wrong way to go about ensuring balance between the kingdoms. The problem is they are designing the game around simulations of the game playing out without player interactions. When they do their 10 or 20 year simulations they appear to come out as they intend, but when we play the game and have direct impacts on kingdoms/wars/fiefs the tools they are using to balance the simulations just play terribly. Perpetual wars get boring and they have no intention of making peace time activities. They are basically designing an AI simulator, not a game for people to enjoy.
 
Marbles20 said:
I've grumbled repeatedly about the diplomacy/tribute system being the wrong way to go about ensuring balance between the kingdoms. The problem is they are designing the game around simulations of the game playing out without player interactions. When they do their 10 or 20 year simulations they appear to come out as they intend, but when we play the game and have direct impacts on kingdoms/wars/fiefs the tools they are using to balance the simulations just play terribly. Perpetual wars get boring and they have no intention of making peace time activities. They are basically designing an AI simulator, not a game for people to enjoy.
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This really does seem to be the case.
 
The way they declare war is totally f...d up. No matter if I have one town or a thousand or if I have 10 times their army, they simply declare war and demand tribute. I think I am tired of this game. After I finish this campaign I will take another 1-year break. Maybe they learn something until then
 
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