I don't get all the hate

Wehveechen

Regular
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I think Bannerlord just doesn't live up to the expectations attached to it, and those expectations vary wildly.
Admitted, I'm one of the whiners, though my issue is the lack of communication in a place where I can easily find Dev statements that give insights into their ideas, plans and the like.
This game is far from done and all I want is to know which direction they intend to take this. Because there's very different types of gamers with vastly different needs and expectations and I just wish I knew who is going to get prioritised to adjust my own expectations accordingly.
 

UncleMidge

Recruit
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I don't get it either. After 300 hours I have more than had my money's worth out of it if I never logon again. 150 pints would have cost me £600 if the pubs had been open during lockdown, I don't understand the whining, it's like people want to pay £30 for something to last them a lifetime.
 

babelfisch

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They probably sold a few million units. 100k people left a positive review on Steam. If you go out and ask 100k random people about their opinion you will very likely get a few thousand completely retarded answers.
A small, but very vocal, part of humanity is way beyond the usual stupidity and they aren't afraid to show it. If you don't believe me, go and read some YouTube comments or Trump's Twitter account.
 

Patwick

Veteran
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What you said on your second paragraph and your ps note will get you stoned by white knights and fan boys. Then they will say that its early access "insert insult here."
Ever since people started to confront and stand up to white knights and fan boys, the tensions have toned down.
I know i'm playing the game by responding to this, but look how you just appropriate yourself half of the response of the thread by promoting useless quarreling, while OP just wanted to show support, understanding and proving that point of views could be share without any animosity.

You've been doing this with all of your latest post, could you please stop and do just like OP if you want to share something ? Promoting intra-community dissension isn't the way to improve anything.
This and double posting
 

Flesson19

Recruit
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I think Bannerlord just doesn't live up to the expectations attached to it, and those expectations vary wildly.
Admitted, I'm one of the whiners, though my issue is the lack of communication in a place where I can easily find Dev statements that give insights into their ideas, plans and the like.
This game is far from done and all I want is to know which direction they intend to take this. Because there's very different types of gamers with vastly different needs and expectations and I just wish I knew who is going to get prioritised to adjust my own expectations accordingly.
I get people say the problems and not being done, but when they say we estimate a year to completion it tells me I need to wait maybe 6 months for a product that is taking shape, as i've said I think of this as late Alpha to early closed Beta, it really isn't till open beta things really look good in a game.
Would I like to see them prioritize things differently, yes. Worry about problems instead of piling on new ones, yes.
I know what I signed up for and for 2 months in, I think it has been worth it and can't wait to see what is next.\
I have some amazing ideas for things, especially for children growing up that I think would be amazing to implement and want to share with Taleworld but I know we are early into it and we have problems in game that need to come first and I hope they fix them before jumping into other things so I wait til it's right.
I love the game, I love the communication from the team, the hot fixes they do are top notch, I couldn't be happier with my $50 bucks I've spent, well worth it.
Sorry for ramblings, have fun all.
 

KingEroc1st

Recruit
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look, it's this simple and i think everyone agrees with me on the following points.

If a bug existed and a patch fixed it. we are happy they are doing their job.
if a bug didn't exist and a patch introduced it, we are not happy because they are prioritizing on the wrong things.
(unless of course the list of existing bugs is 0 and they have nothing but new content to add to the game at the point, inevitably introducing some probably in the process)

looking back the last 2 months. which one has happened more? personally to me, it's been the latter, patch after patch, and never the former. so... the list of game breaking bugs keeps growing and the amount of bug free content keep shrinking. mods that are almost "essential" now break every patch... its only a matter of time before i never touch this game, and this all happened before it's official release.
 

TheShermanator

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There a lots of threads about this topic of TW / EA critique for obvious reasons, but yeah, to be honest, I have to agree (at least with the OP's title). Or, more precisely, you have to be able to hold multiple thoughts in your head at the same time. Bottom line, I really think the game is fun, especially with mods, even in it's unfinished state. That said, some of the very basic core mechanics are underdeveloped (diplomacy, kingdom management, garrison issues, lack of a send messenger feature of any kind, etc.) even measuring by the low bar of an EA game: Not just flawed or imbalanced, but hardly in the game at all. It's not necessarily crazy, I suppose, to be a little disappointed in that sense.

But honestly, it's still a really great game in terms of it's core elements - measured by how much fun I have with it and free time hours (99% of them since launch) I sink into it (especially early and mid-game). Also, mods + older stable branch address most of the missing parts for now. (Best case scenario for me, then, for now onwards: Stay on older branches with mods and look on as the devs build more stable, more well balanced versions of the same features that mods currently accomplish.) So I find it hard to complain too hard.

I think Bannerlord just doesn't live up to the expectations attached to it, and those expectations vary wildly.
Also a good point. If it's not already obvious, it's certainly a factor that I never played Warband. By the just standards of the average RPG and/or strat game, BL is pretty awesome.
 

Sheepify

Regular
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It's a fun game for a while, when field battles are still a novelty.

Once you try to do anything more (or engage in things like sieges, or large army-on-army battles), all the problems and placeholders start coming out and smack you right in the face.

Which wouldn't have been all that much of a problem, IF,

1) This was a project that was just getting off the ground - however you look at it, what we have in hands right now is the result of a few years worth of work already. Going by the "priority list," and the speed of work being done so far, there ain't gonna be much expansion of what we already have, and that's, at best, a mixed bag that's nowhere near even Warband+mods level of development. M&B is no longer a one-man-show, or a graphical facelift with some additional functionality thrown in, and expectations are likewise (and in my opinion justifiably) adjusted.

2) Communication. Or, rather, the horrible way in which TW completely ignores it as an important part of not just EA process (seriously, this is one of the worst "EA" projects I've participated in, and there's been quite a lot of them - including original M&B!), but even simple game development business.

Steam forums are completely ignored. The same forums that have been successfuly used as a source of feedback and testers by EA titles of tiny studios. Even the "official" forum barely sees any communication. Important - at least important to custmers who already paid for this title - information is dumped somewhere in middle of a thread (like the latest "we're postponing the patch because 'holidays'" post a week and a half ago, heh, that hasn't seen any kind of follow up even in terms of "uh.. we kinda ran into a bunch of problems, so it'll take a while"). You can make a crash report thread, detailing a game-breaking issue that completely prevents you from playing, and won't even see a generic acknowledgement of it (and it's not a part of the forum that sees a lot of posts, even compared to the rest of it which is already pretty slow).

After paying what amounts to AAA-title price tag, you're left to fumble in the dark with no idea what's going on with the development process, scant information on resolution of most pressing issues, and basically a feeling of "we got your money, get lost." This doesn't even touch the "community feedback in terms of balancing and feature implementation" part of the supposed EA. Even assuming TW is interested in actual feedback (both balancewise and suggestions of potential features - and that's a big IF from where I'm standing), they completely fail at showing that interest and encouraging people to engage in it. How are you supposed to suggest anything when you don't know what the developers plan, don't know what they are working on right now, in what areas they could use some additional ideas, and - most importantly - you basically have no idea IF they are looking for anything from you, WHAT they are looking for, and what in that suggestion you made did not fit their vision of the game in the first place.

Basically, just one-way communication without any kind of recursion. If you want to kill your "EA," that's the fastest way to do it. But maybe that's precisely what TW wants - get the money, and have the peons who forked it over shut up and let them do their thing for another x years, or until they get bored with this project whatever its state.

Sure, best approach for anybody unhappy with current state of the game is probably to just forget it, come back in a year or so, and hope in the meantime that Taleworlds will perform better in that time than they have so far, but that's a pretty unrealistic assumption from where I'm standing. Also, very much the opposite of what even Steam describes "EA" stands for.

The least they could've done after releasing the "EA" (and, again, as far as my experience is concerned this is anything but a genuine "EA" aside from paying for an unfinished game) is to hire one or two interns who can do a better job at communication than "we don't want to spam Steam forum with patch notes" Callum, because apparently the person being official face of the company doesn't even understand the importance of keeping people informed, especially when it comes to a game in ongoing development that also may happen to break the many mods required by the lackluster planning (if there's any real one) involved in development of this game.

tl;dr version:

- barely any features, and even the core strength of the franchise, combat and field battles, are full of issues (no matter how pretty they look - and you can't even customize "custom battles," heh),
- project already giving the impression of "feature lockdown" despite being filled with placeholders (or regressing Warband elements in the first place for no apparent good reason - see village fief no longer being independent),
- absolute failure at communication from the developers - instead of leveraging EA as a testing and/or ideas hotbed, TW is still failing to realize the importance of steady communication loop, especially considering they are supposed to be engaged in an "EA" project.
- all of this in a franchise that is so unique there aren't really any other alternatives to it. Also one that has (or perhaps, at this point, had) a very enthusiastic following with pretty understandable expectations of Bannerlord being an improvement over what we already had in Warband and mods, and not just in graphical terms.

It's my highly biased opinion, but maybe it'll give you some idea why a lot of people are unhappy right now.

But... to be honest, mostly I think it's just the complete communication blackout. Everything else they could get around simply talking to us - at least in statistical terms, because there'll always be somebody unhappy no matter what you do.
 
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TheShermanator

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But... to be honest, mostly I think it's just the complete communication blackout. Everything else they could get around simply talking to us - at least in statistical terms, because there'll always be somebody unhappy no matter what you do.
There's probably something to that. To be fair, it is harder that it sounds to land effective communication when they are in the situation like the one they are in (millions playing a game they know is pretty rough Early Access w/ nonetheless high expectations), but if they could pull it off, it would definitely take the temperature down a little more.
 

paladinx333

Sergeant
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1. The game wasn't what most people expected.
2. The game isn't what most people want.
3. Most of the patches have made the game worse and not better.

I don't hate this game or anyone involved in making it, I am just severely disappointed. It isn't what I wanted and it's not getting any better.
 

Wehveechen

Regular
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I get people say the problems and not being done, but when they say we estimate a year to completion it tells me I need to wait maybe 6 months for a product that is taking shape, as i've said I think of this as late Alpha to early closed Beta, it really isn't till open beta things really look good in a game.
Would I like to see them prioritize things differently, yes. Worry about problems instead of piling on new ones, yes.
I know what I signed up for and for 2 months in, I think it has been worth it and can't wait to see what is next.\
I have some amazing ideas for things, especially for children growing up that I think would be amazing to implement and want to share with Taleworld but I know we are early into it and we have problems in game that need to come first and I hope they fix them before jumping into other things so I wait til it's right.
I love the game, I love the communication from the team, the hot fixes they do are top notch, I couldn't be happier with my $50 bucks I've spent, well worth it.
Sorry for ramblings, have fun all.
I might have expressed myself not clearly enough. What I really miss is some kind of long term vision. So far, the Devs have been okay at communicating what to expect in maybe the next patch, but as someone with very particular interests, I just enjoy knowing where the game is headed.
At the moment, I don't know what kind of vision the Devs have for their final product and what kind of thought process is behind certain decisions. I assume that I'm not the only one who's easily appeased when someone just explains the hows and whys of mechanics and game design choices I'm not exactly happy about. It would be nice to just have more insight than what little is communicated here and there.
 

E.M.Baguette

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
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1. The game wasn't what most people expected.
2. The game isn't what most people want.
3. Most of the patches have made the game worse and not better.

I don't hate this game or anyone involved in making it, I am just severely disappointed. It isn't what I wanted and it's not getting any better.
Steam positive reviews: 103,662 (86,51%)
Negative reviews: 14,692
 

Kentucky James VII

BioAfrikaner
Duke
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2
Most of the reviews came in moments after the game was released. Those reviews are mostly just a way for people to let off steam (lol) one way or another rather than actually critique the game.

Most people who are happy about the game right now seem to be enjoying it under the assumption that it'll one day match their expectations. The problem is that progress has been far too slow for me to accept that. Remember that the game has been in player hands for over a year at this point (the beta) and it has barely changed. A lot of time gets wasted fixing small balance issues which are going to get steamrolled by the inevitable larger changes. They're saying this is early access but they're treating it more like a full release where all that's left is to shuffle the numbers.
 

meowwoofneigh

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I have seen so many posts across many platforms of people who complain about the game. It is early access and if it were a regular game it might be late alpha to closed beta around there and to have a game that is playable I could say winnable at this point is pretty damn impressive. they also said it would be about a year before they thought it could be finished so people were well aware when they bought it.
I have been apart of many beta games, from POE to way back with Everquest and Ultima Online and I would have to say Taleworld and the gang have done the best job at communication and working quick to fix "major" issues so people can play. So much to say I am impressed or even surprised to see a company with that level if involvement.
So in those points I am really happy with the product and the direction I am heading.

now get on my soapbox, the only problem I could say I have is I think they do not do a good at prioritizing what should be done. We all know what major patches do, bring huge crashes and many bugs and with the amount of "known issues" happening right now, and look at the list as it is super long, why those shouldn't be worked on first. All these major patches, the one coming up will ring a ton more. Spend a week or two and hammer out some issues first and help dwindle that super long list before introducing a patch that will cause that list to grow big time. My example is the trade exp not being remembered when you save and quit, that patch caused the red, yellow and green dot with the lvl 25 trade perk to go away and that was how many weeks ago and still sin't done, which is a really important perk to a trader.I am not a programmer, designer or engineer <Nor do I play one on TV> but it just seems fix what is broken before bringing out stuff that will cause more things to break. Just my 2 cents

but besides that I will say Taleworlds and gang, you have done an amazing job, I am very happy with my purchase and look forward to a finished product in the future. Keep up the good work.
P.S. Get rid of that dumb hard red cap that companions have on their skills, pretty annoying for a healer to have a 61 medicine hard cap when they join you
There are people here who either lack self-discipline or they're just voicing out their outrage purely for the sake of voicing out their outrage (aka they secretly enjoy being mad over something), some would go so far as to even bring politics here of all things (I'm looking at you babelfisch)

You simply cannot please people even if you sell your own soul.
 
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E.M.Baguette

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
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Most of the reviews came in moments after the game was released. Those reviews are mostly just a way for people to let off steam (lol) one way or another rather than actually critique the game.
Sorry, I though you can vote once... or may be you know most of the 100k players who made a positive review?
 
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remorse

Sergeant
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Remember that COVID has disrupted all of our plans and routines.
Don't judge them by this pace.
Things will pick up.
 

meowwoofneigh

Regular
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Remember that COVID has disrupted all of our plans and routines.
Don't judge them by this pace.
Things will pick up.
This is a no-brainer issue yet there are some who can't seem to grasp the simple idea of waiting while letting the devs just do their work.
 

Sheepify

Regular
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This is a no-brainer issue yet there are some who can't seem to grasp the simple idea of waiting while letting the devs just do their work.
Perhaps if they didn't take over two weeks (and... what, four hot-fixes by now?) to correct something as simple as an out-of-place decimal point (see the issue with one-handed top perk), people would be less inclined to complain.