I Beat Them 10 Times... And They Love Me For It!

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Zerofive

Regular
You summon enemy vassals to you army? No
Enemy vassals vote for you in elections? No
I get what you're saying but it's a bit of stretch from "Is gaining relation from defeating lords and releasing them okay?"
I guess if you wanna play a long con of building relations and then joining the faction for cheap armies and easier fiefs , that's fine too, it's much slower then kicking down the doors and just taking town for yourself alone.
I don't know though, haven't tried.
Have you done this?
DO you think it made the game too easy or did it make the game better?
Since they implemented that enemies with good relation will less likely raid your villages its basically a must have. You realease all lords and mercinaries in the early stages of the game and your villages are safe later on. I appreciate this change as it also prevents any uprisings in towns....not to mention the annoyance when you have to chase them down. That is something on the + side of doing this
 

Spinozart1

Sergeant
To the topic at hand: the problem isn't that you get brownie points for releasing them, it's that you don't lose Relation for attacking them. Any time you attack a Lord/Lady who doesn't want to fight you should lose Relationship with them. Seems pretty simple to me.
Exaclty. But so far I never saw any lord wanting to fight... Except when they are clearly overnumbering me.
And I find it unfair we lose relation if we fight a fleeing smaller party/army that was raiding our village or besieging our castle/town.
I guess I can agree with this, though I do think that the relation gain/loss should be either a net increase or net loss based on the lord's personality- as it was in Warband.

The best way of doing it, assuming TW was willing to put effort in this area, would actually be to have three steps.

Attack: Attacking lords makes you lose relations.

Defeat: The more cautious a lord is, the more relation you gain for defeating them in battle.

Release: The more honorable or merciful a lord is, the more relation you gain for releasing them.

A lord with an honorable, merciful, or cowardly personality will appreciate being released and factor it into their future relations, and in the case of cowardly lords, will fear and respect you as a superior warrior. So defeating and releasing them should be a reasonable net gain.

A lord with a dishonorable, cruel, brave personality will despise being defeated, and doesn't play by the rules anyway so sees no reason to be nice just because you were nice to them. So defeating and releasing them should be a slight net relations loss (but not as much as if you had imprisoned them).
I like that logic (except that losing relation on attack should be null/largely reduced if the lord was taking a hostile action on our settlement).
I may be wrong, but it seems that such mechanic is parlty implemented.
After defeating a lord, once you decide to release him, the dialogue varies.
Sometimes they simply thank you, sometimes they show you some kind of "sour" gratitude.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
But why though? If you recruit a clan you get a relation boost, if you gift them a fief you get a relation boost... why would you need more in 1st place? Do you have a technical break down of how much money (lol) you save on recruitment per relation? It seems to me undiscernible.
So I don't have to give them a fief.
 

Zerofive

Regular
When did they implement this and has anybody done a comparison to test it?
I dont remember exactly, but in one of those latest patches 1.5.8 or 1.5.9 - you should try it, works great. If you join a kingdom and you are "friends" with current enemies, you can watch them go past your villages to raid someone elses.
 

Spinozart1

Sergeant
I dont remember exactly, but in one of those latest patches 1.5.8 or 1.5.9 - you should try it, works great. If you join a kingdom and you are "friends" with current enemies, you can watch them go past your villages to raid someone elses.
I can't find back the related post, unfortunately...
But I did read a reply from TW confirming that mechanic.
They said that AI lords with whom you have good relation will likely avoid attacking (but not fully guaranteed) your settlements.
 

niekdegrijze

Sergeant at Arms
Yeah, they chose pretty much the worst thing to bring over from Warband. It's so unintuitive that severely injuring someone and slaughtering hundreds of their subordinates and then taking their castle makes them love you just because you didn't kill or imprison them. Fear maybe, but not grinning at the sight of you.

It would be nice if they nerfed the relation gain for releasing lords, and replaced it with, i dunno, more mercy trait gain instead. Give more serious (gradually ramping up) consequences to executing every lord you meet (like some notables refusing to give you troops if you are a total murderer perhaps), and give relation penalties for holding lords in your dungeon too long. That will balance the three options in an intuitive way.

Then buff the relation gain for travelling in an army, fighting in battles as part of an army, joining in battle, etc.
yes, because it a is familiar mechanic from Warband not a lot of people find it strange and because it is by far the easiest method of farming relationship points it is not something i think most people want to lose without a good alternative.
but the hole mechanic is strange. You killed their subjects, humiliated them on the field of battle over and over, and they love you more than the nobles you fought besides when you where beating them. I don't have a good suggestion, but the current system is not logical. they could fear you, respect you or find you merciful. But definitively not love you.
 

D0c1

Knight at Arms
-you saved them ransom money
-you didn't put them in a dungeon
-you sent them back to their loved ones
why wouldn't you gain relations with them?
they can't be mad at you for killing people in battle. they went in knowing there were a chance to die.

you already lose relations when raiding, attacking farmers or sieging their fiefs.

losing relations for starting a fight with them should be brought back yes.

taleworlds needs to individualize relations and have relations gain when let go be dependent on personality type.

respect you
how would you translate respect in-game besides relations?
 

niekdegrijze

Sergeant at Arms
how would you translate respect in-game besides relations?
You’re right you wouldn’t, But the happy smile seems off, the game doesn’t need an almost similar stat. But fear/dread could be interesting. It could influence the willingness to instigate a fight, effect enemy moral and keep vassals in check even with low relations.
high relations with an enemy could give an option to avoid the fight in dialogue and give a chance to be released after capture.
 

five bucks

Sergeant
why wouldn't you gain relations with them?
Because you just cost them thousands of denars in troops, murdered some of their most trusted comrades or even fellow nobles or even family members, and took their ancestral fief that was the source of all their income.
Not doing any further bad things doesn't outweigh all of that.
they can't be mad at you for killing people in battle. they went in knowing there were a chance to die.
Except what if you attacked them so they didn't "go in there" by choice? Also, many people tend not to be that reasonable.
losing relations for starting a fight with them should be brought back yes. and have relations gain when let go be dependent on personality type.
Agreed!
 
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