I am repulsively disappointed in MP, Taleworlds.

[Younes]

Omg, it's only black and white for you huh? It had a bad framework for mods, noticeable through the being not many mods with their own quests. Those that had them were done with incredible effort by very dedicated people. The same amount of effort could really move mountains in Bannerlord with the proper tools.

The game was made 10 years ago. The game was made by a significant smaller team yet modders were able to make total conversion mods.

Claiming the game is a terrible framework in the technical side yes. But we were talking framework in the context of the native base game. I'm not following what you're saying.

TW will offer a framework, that's what their task is. M&B and I would argue all games nowadays to varying degrees live off mods and community content created off and with that framework. If the framework is good, the mods will be good, more players will come. It's exactly with BL's way of appealing to the masses - which you all complain about

 

[Namakan]

Omg, it's only black and white for you huh? It had a bad framework for mods, noticeable through the being not many mods with their own quests. Those that had them were done with incredible effort by very dedicated people. The same amount of effort could really move mountains in Bannerlord with the proper tools.

Do you KNOW that it was a bad framework for mods or is this just another assumption made by you based on one facet you took a glance at? Because it seems like the latter right now.

 

[Younes]

Warband had its pile of issues but what did you honestly expect from a 10 year old game where the engine was not made with too much mods in mind. Metefa was using the framework in the context of the base game being good i believe, so i don't know why he suddenly changed it.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Someone found the usual half-life deathmatch experience too dull - he created a mod to fix the dullness. That only morphed into what it became with some time passing. New mechanics, new maps, there. It's like you don't want to understand me. So important to give contra to everything I'm saying.

He says, literally ignoring what I said. Why do you think every big mod (which, by the way, all started over a decade ago, even Battle Royale was around that long ago now - do you wonder if the gaming landscape has changed a little since then?) has made a concerted effort to go "official"? They understand that staying a mod inherently limits and stagnates their population, because needing to buy a base game, download a mod, and play on separate servers in a rougher setting with little tutorials, being at the mercy of a handful of modders, etc is a huge barrier.

 

[metafa]

Do you KNOW that it was a bad framework for mods or is this just another assumption made by you based on one facet you took a glance at? Because it seems like the latter right now.

I know it. It doesn't even have a programming language, it's only writing in textfiles, xml files and the like. That's not programming, that's just horrible, ask any coder. Actually programmed mods could do so much more. And not more in the sense of more possibilities but to get there will be easier in BL which will effectively mean, more and better mods.

 

[safe]

Guys chill with stating some obvious facts because Callum will soon say that you are picking a fight for no reason and he will take off. 5 mins later fietta will magically appear and close the thread because of flame baiting and discussion will be over. Only moderators have right here to manipulate facts and and take single arguments out of context.

 

[metafa]

He says, literally ignoring what I said. Why do you think every big mod (which, by the way, all started over a decade ago, even Battle Royale was around that long ago now - do you wonder if the gaming landscape has changed a little since then?) has made a concerted effort to go "official"? They understand that staying a mod inherently limits and stagnates their population, because needing to buy a base game, download a mod, and play on separate servers in a rougher setting with little tutorials, being at the mercy of a handful of modders, etc is a huge barrier.

No, they wanna earn money. And as said CS brought multitudes of players to buy half-life for years, and only after the popularity spiraled completely out of control (CS:GO the latest installment still by far the most played game on to steam to date) it became it's own game and own franchise.

 

[Younes]

I know it. It doesn't even have a programming language, it's only writing in textfiles, xml files and the like. That's not programming, that's just horrible, ask any coder. Actually programmed mods could do so much more. And not more in the sense of more possibilities but to get there will be easier in BL which will effectively mean, more and better mods.

You know there is something called scripting which uses a magic language called python in warband?

There were a lot of mods in warband because python is a relatively easy language to learn. No doubt bannerlord will have less mods with a scripting language like c# which requires more practice.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

No, they wanna earn money. And as said CS brought multitudes of players to buy half-life for years, and only after the popularity spiraled completely out of control (CS:GO the latest installment still by far the most played game on to steam to date) it became it's own game and own franchise.

And how do they earn money? By increasing the playerbase, exactly my point.

 

[metafa]

You know there is something called scripting which uses a magic language called python in warband?

There were a lot of mods in warband because python is a relatively easy language to learn. No doubt bannerlord will have less mods with a scripting language like c# which requires more practice.

C# is much more refined language, and using a proper IDE it's much easier I would argue than Python.

And how do they earn money? By increasing the playerbase, exactly my point.

First of all making money of those who already played the "free" version - the mod.

 

[Younes]

C# is much more refined language, and using a proper IDE it's much easier I would argue than Python.

You claimed warband didn't have a programming language. You think taleworlds **** warband out of thin air?

 

[metafa]

You claimed warband didn't have a programming language. You think taleworlds **** warband out of thin air?

You can now stop with your hostility and your perpetual scepticism. I am a programmer for 20 years. No. You misunderstood. Gravely. Ok?

And most mods are only made with changed models and changed text/xml files.

 

[Younes]

You can now stop with your hostility and your perpetual scepticism. I am a programmer for 20 years. No. You misunderstood. Gravely. Ok?

And most mods are only made with changed models and changed text/xml files.

How do you think people are going to mod bannerlord for the most part? Most of the data files are stored in XML files. Who cares if its stored in XML files? Modding be modding.

 

[Saptor]

You know there is something called scripting which uses a magic language called python in warband?

There were a lot of mods in warband because python is a relatively easy language to learn. No doubt bannerlord will have less mods with a scripting language like c# which requires more practice.

It uses Python but at the same time, it doesn't. Basically, the module system of Warband utilizes Python's tuples, arrays and strings. Everything you make in the module is basically made out of tuples, strings, constants defined by the headers and so on. You cannot use classes. You cannot even create objects. You can't even use the elegant and simple dictionaries of Python. Not really Python now, is it? The ease of Python for learning literally has no effects on the module system because you can't actually use Python

The way C# is used in Bannerlord, on the other hand, is not like that. Your code is actually compiled and you can utilize most of the nice stuff C# has. If Bannerlord supports it as I imagine it, I can even make voice chat mod for Bannerlord.

 

[Younes]

It uses Python but at the same time, it doesn't. Basically, the module system of Warband utilizes Python's tuples, arrays and strings. Everything you make in the module is basically made out of tuples, strings, constants defined by the headers and so on. You cannot use classes. You cannot even create objects. You can't even use the elegant and simple dictionaries of Python. Not really Python now, is it? The ease of Python for learning literally has no effects on the module system because you can't actually use Python

The way C# is used in Bannerlord, on the other hand, not like that. Your code is actually compiled and you can utilize most of the nice stuff C# has. If Bannerlord supports it as I imagine it, I can even make voice chat mod for Bannerlord.

Yeah the module system is using python, but saying there is no programming language is a stretch. There is something to an extend used as programming language. Even through its a weird thing.

 

[Maroon]

You can now stop with your hostility and your perpetual scepticism. I am a programmer for 20 years. No. You misunderstood. Gravely. Ok?

And most mods are only made with changed models and changed text/xml files.

Going to have to jump in here because you're both wrong. Warband mods aren't scripted in Python. It has its own scripting language that is written to text files using a Python-based compiler. Creating mods is done through editing .py files that are completely written in Warband's own scripting language. So no, it doesn't use just text files, but it also doesn't use Python directly.

Also, Metafa, if you've been a programmer for 20 years you should know that Python and C# are on the same level in terms of possibilities. Python is just more focused on smaller scripts, as opposed to C# which is used more for larger applications. There's IDEs for both languages.

 

[metafa]

It uses Python but at the same time, it doesn't. Basically, the module system of Warband utilizes Python's tuples, arrays and strings. Everything you make in the module is basically made out of tuples, strings, constants defined by the headers and so on. You cannot use classes. You cannot even create objects. You can't even use the elegant and simple dictionaries of Python. Not really Python now, is it? The ease of Python for learning literally has no effects on the module system because you can't actually use Python

The way C# is used in Bannerlord, on the other hand, is not like that. Your code is actually compiled and you can utilize most of the nice stuff C# has. If Bannerlord supports it as I imagine it, I can even make voice chat mod for Bannerlord.

Thank you. Did not know that. Not using objects or classes is basically like programming in QBasic like how I started in the 90s.... horrible. C# is already confirmed as modding language for BL.

 

[Saptor]

Going to have to jump in here because you're both wrong. Warband mods aren't scripted in Python. It has its own scripting language that is written to text files using a Python-based compiler. Creating mods is done through editing .py files that are completely written in Warband's own scripting language. So no, it doesn't use just text files, but it also doesn't use Python directly.

Also, Metafa, if you've been a programmer for 20 years you should know that Python and C# are on the same level in terms of possibilities. Python is just more focused on smaller scripts, as opposed to C# which is used more for larger applications. There's IDEs for both languages.

Exactly this.

One could even say that the module system is actually a special kind of assembler. Warband scripting is always in the form of "(<opcode>, [operands])". The module system basically compiles this into numbers in text files that can be interpreted by the game engine.

 

[Maroon]

Precisely. All that to say: Bannerlord indeed has much better mod support than Warband ever did, even now before there's official modding tools. But this is all a sidetrack from the original point: mods shouldn't have to be necessary to create good multiplayer baseline. Sure, everyone wants something slightly different, but like @Namakan said: if the baseline is crap, that means that the core experience that new players get is crap, and we all want it to be better.

 

[metafa]

Also, Metafa, if you've been a programmer for 20 years you should know that Python and C# are on the same level in terms of possibilities. Python is just more focused on smaller scripts, as opposed to C# which is used more for larger applications. There's IDEs for both languages.

If there's no objects, no classes, no dictionaries, then no, yes, maybe the same theoretical possibilities, but no, I wouldn't wanna create mods for it.