I am repulsively disappointed in MP, Taleworlds.

[Jess_the_Hobozerk]

I don't agree that these are non-choices. Gloves and boots make me feel better. Helmets give the highest armor boost of anything. A naked guy with a great helm is just as protected from headshots as anyone. And loadouts change depending on the server's starting gold. 1000 gp plays a lot different than 1500. Every time I make money I improve my loadout on the next spawn. It feels like an RPG with incremental improvements. Or I die too often, lose everything and start over. Its also cool when you start to recognize other players by their preferred gear.

2hd sword vs. great sword: Unless its swadian vs. swadian, I never take the great sword. It feels dirty.

There's something that sets M&B games apart from the rest, that kept people playing for a decade. Depth.

Why not keep the streamlined classes the defaults, but include optional faction gear for each slot?

The default classes with an additional optional faction gear for each slot if you wanted would have been great.

 

[Byas]

My Take on this

Yes after playing the Beta I am slightly disappointed in Class system (imo class system alright in Captain mode but there some commands that need to be added like telling troops to use a certain weapon in their inventory) Also the Spawns in Team Deathmatch is like playing Free For All. When it comes to Sieges, some catapults shoot way far out even when you have the bar set close as possible. Not to mention Sometimes I like to see more then just 6vs6 in these modes maybe 20vs20 when content creators make new maps. However I been having some fun with it still, It kinda drives me nuts that even with Warband how fast Two handers are and me swinging a one hander 5 times on a guy to put him down.

However...

Honestly I always felt Modders will probably be the deciding factor of this Multiplayer, I'd love to see if this game could hold over 200 or maybe 400 players in a server (very unlikely atm but I can dream). A Persistent World, an invasion coop mode, a RTS Stronghold to build and destroy castles/kingdoms, Battle Mode, Duels, and other creations of maps and gamemodes that could be created. Choosing Gear and Armor in the Gamemodes etc. I did play Warband Native Multiplayer but most hours were on Multiplayer Mods.

Do I think they could add more maps/players/Game modes in the Native? Absolutely!

Do I think they should change their Class System and Spawns? Depends how they feel about it...

 

[AxiosXiphos]

You're wrong, you're just completely, completely wrong..

He outlined ONE FACTION IN WARBAND, ONE FACTION.

That was also, ONE CLASS.

I'm not even going to go into detail you're so behind.

He ACTUALLY OUTLINED THE ENTIRE ARMOR SYSTEM FOR YOU AND YOU CALL IT "NEGLIGIBLE".

Care to offer any insights as to why? It is negligible; the Armour values barely change. You have heavy armour and light armour... any amounts in the middle make little difference.

And I only outlined 3 of the classes. THREE CLASSES (Do we need to do all caps talk now)?

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Not only is he totally wrong on that technical level, but he also totally ignores the aesthetic customization aspect.

So when they add cosmetic skins you will be absolutely fine then? Okay sorted.

 

[Noviix]

Care to offer any insights as to why? It is negligible; the Armour values barely change. You have heavy armour and light armour... any amounts in the middle make little difference.

And I only outlined 3 of the classes. THREE CLASSES (Do we need to do all caps talk now)?

I'm concerned you don't know how the Warband armor system works. Even though it was just explained to you.

Typically that's exactly how armor works.

The heavy armor is significantly heavier than light armor.
The light armor is significant lighter than heavy armor.
And medium is somewhere just right.

Heavy helmet protects from straight up headshots, unlike light helmets.
Heavy gauntlets are expensive but provide that extra body protection someone else might not have.
Heavy torso vs any other is pretty self explanatory.

How is that negligible?

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I'm concerned you don't know how the Warband armor system works. Even though it was just explained to you.

Typically that's exactly how armor works.

The heavy armor is significantly heavier than light armor.
The light armor is significant lighter than heavy armor.
And medium is somewhere just right.

Are you a moron or what?

First of all chill the hell out. i have 3000 hours on Warband and 250 on the Bannerlord beta. I know how it works... my point is that you have three classes which offer light, medium and heavy in bannerlord.. you have lost nothing.

Now stop trying to be edgy and insulting or you will be reported. Grow up.

 

[Noviix]

First of all chill the hell out. i have 3000 hours on Warband and 250 on the Bannerlord beta. I know how it works... my point is that you have three classes which offer light, medium and heavy in bannerlord.. you have lost nothing.

Now stop trying to be edgy and insulting or you will be reported. Grow up.

3000 Hours and you call the Warband system negligible in comparison. Stop trying to blackmail me, I said what I said. You are somehow completely ignorant to the depth of the Warband armor system as opposed to the lack of one in Bannerlord.

The MP armor system doesn't function like SP for some reason, it's all just one armor value as seen in the stat menu. I'm not sure if anyone actualy knows the inner workings of the MP system, but it doesn't feel like armor carries the same weight as it did in Warband. And that's a perfectly valid complaint.

 

[Semke]

How about you singleplayer butterlord gimps just refrain from posting on MP threads, you're the reason multiplayer's **** in the first place. Completely neglected, servers barely have any load and still don't work properly, hitboxes are garbage, most weapons are completely unresponsive, no actual ladder just useless levels, players leaving queued games without punishment. I could go on and on but all I can say is 8 YEARS EARLY ACCESS XD

 

[Noviix]

So when they add cosmetic skins you will be absolutely fine then? Okay sorted.

Somehow you've managed to try and make a fun of someone who just wants some variety in the mindless horde of Legionaries and Oathsworn.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

3000 Hours and you call the Warband system negligible in comparison. Stop trying to blackmail me, I said what I said. You are somehow completely ignorant to the depth of the Warband armor system as opposed to the lack of one in Bannerlord.

The MP armor system doesn't function like SP for some reason, it's all just one armor value as seen in the stat menu. I'm not sure if anyone actualy knows the inner workings of the MP system, but it doesn't feel like armor carries the same weight as it did in Warband. And that's a perfectly valid complaint.

I know exactly how it works; you are fully aware of this. If you want to have an adult discussion then we can; otherwise I'm done. We both know how it works we just have different opinions on its implementation, now are we going to talk about this like men or do you want to carry on squabbling like boys?

 

[Noviix]

I know exactly how it works; you are fully aware of this. If you want to have an adult discussion then we can; otherwise I'm done. We both know how it works we just have different opinions on its implementation, now are we going to talk about this like men or do you want to carry on squabbling like boys?

I don't know why you keep making this a manhood debate.

You claimed the armor system is negligible without giving any reasons as to why.

I'm telling you the armor system actually functioned properly in Warband and picking armor was a vital part of multiplayer. You clearly haven't dominated a Battle lobby or been dominated by the plate knight with a maul walking around who EARNED that gear.

If you mention being a man or a boy again I might as well just stop replying.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I don't know why you keep making this a manhood debate.

You claimed the armor system is negligible without giving any reasons as to why.

I'm telling you the armor system actually functioned properly in Warband and picking armor was a vital part of multiplayer. You clearly haven't dominated a Battle lobby or been dominated by the plate knight with a maul walking around who EARNED that gear.

If you mention being a man or a boy again I might as well just stop replying.

But the point is; it's not vital. In fact you just made an excellent point why it's not - it's just a snowballing effect.

Players who are doing well - do even better. Players who are struggling - struggle even more! It's exasperates a huge issue in that M&B should be a skill based game. Giving one player all the advantages is not a skill mechanic - if a player wants to dominate a game they should do it every life - every round. Not just gain an early advantage then kit out on the best equipment over and over.

But let's talk specifically about why Armour is negligible. True there is a big difference between being naked and being fully clad. But that is where the difference stop; having medium-heavy armour might aswell be the top quality gear as you will still die to the same amount fo attacks.

Same with the low quality stuff - might as well be naked as it won't protect you. Effectively there was three armour levels in warband - none/light, medium and heavy. That's exactly the same as bannerlord is now... Yeah we are missing the cosmetic effect but we know for certain they have something planned in that light.

You aren't losing anything - just seems a small segment of the community are extremely bitter over something that changes the game very little.

For example - lets say they swapped it back overnight to warbands system. How would you play the game differently to how you play now? I would still pick the heavy infantry armour and take a sword and shield, or I would take the lighter armour and a greatsword... nothing has changed...

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

But the point is; it's not vital. In fact you just made an excellent point why it's not - it's just a snowballing effect.

Players who are doing well - do even better. Players who are struggling - struggle even more! It's exasperates a huge issue in that M&B should be a skill based game. Giving one player all the advantages is not a skill mechanic - if a player wants to dominate a game they should do it every life - every round. Not just gain an early advantage then kit out on the best equipment over and over.

the current class system allows way harder snowballing lol

 

[Al_Mansur]

So when they add cosmetic skins you will be absolutely fine then? Okay sorted.

This is pathetic.

 

[Noviix]

But the point is; it's not vital. In fact you just made an excellent point why it's not - it's just a snowballing effect.

Players who are doing well - do even better. Players who are struggling - struggle even more! It's exasperates a huge issue in that M&B should be a skill based game. Giving one player all the advantages is not a skill mechanic - if a player wants to dominate a game they should do it every life - every round. Not just gain an early advantage then kit out on the best equipment over and over.

But let's talk specifically about why Armour is negligible. True there is a big difference between being naked and being fully clad. But that is where the difference stop; having medium-heavy armour might aswell be the top quality gear as you will still die to the same amount fo attacks.

Same with the low quality stuff - might as well be naked as it won't protect you. Effectively there was three armour levels in warband - none/light, medium and heavy. That's exactly the same as bannerlord is now... Yeah we are missing the cosmetic effect but we know for certain they have something planned in that light.

You aren't losing anything - just seems a small segment of the community are extremely bitter over something that changes the game very little.

For example - lets say they swapped it back overnight to warbands system. How would you play the game differently to how you play now? I would still pick the heavy infantry armour and take a sword and shield, or I would take the lighter armour and a greatsword... nothing has changed...

I physically cannot take the Legionary armor and an Imperial Polearm for example, but the Palatine guard can. I cannot be in heavy armor as a Varyag and carry the Long Two Handed Axe.

Snow balling is addressed in so many games in so many different ways so I don't really see it as an argument.

CSGO would be plagued with snowballing if it wasn't for the way the 'Loser Economy' works. In CSGO if a team begins to lose they are allocated a sum of money representative of how many rounds they've lost in a row. If you lose 2 rounds in a row, you gain more money than you would losing one round after a streak. If you lose 4 rounds in a row you gain a lot more money, making it applicable to buy back after a few rounds of torment from the enemies who bested you on a critical round prior in the game. Now that you've accumulated money through losing a bit, you can make your attempt on equal grounds to take control of the game. This is where skill comes into play.

If Bannerlord is going for skill based competitive instead of Warband's style, they've already started off on the wrong foot on multiple fronts. The game's factions just aren't balanced properly. They also balance a mode where you have multiple of the same unit the same way they balance 6v6 multiplayer. This does not work.

If they swapped it back to Warband's system not only would you see multiplayer players flourish with excitement but I'd be able to take whatever I wanted in whatever combination once I earn that gold amount. It's not about how I'd play different, frankly I don't even want to play Bannerlord MP because I've already had my taste of the beta extensively. It lacks depth, customization, and fun.

It's not even just about me in a Battle server. I want my community to be able to dress our guys how we want them to dress, use the gear loadouts we see as the most viable for a given situation, Bannerlord does not allow that.

 

[blondiecan]

You haven't got a clue what you're on about. It IS Warband just with a ****ty class selection

It isn't. There's a lot lacking. I'm not going to spend time explaining, but I advise you at least consider that the hundreds of veterans who have been playing, posting, and deconstructing the multiplayer of this game over the past year know what they're talking about, and the general consensus is the same as the opening post, with issues being beyond just the class system.

 

[bosman05]

Why do you want friendly fire in sieges and tdm that will be so annoying for the inf if both ally and enemy archers damage them

 

[Noviix]

Why do you want friendly fire in sieges and tdm that will be so annoying for the inf if both ally and enemy archers damage them

Because that's how realism and skill works. That's how you get good at MP, by learning not to kill your teammates as an archer, not to couch your teammate as cav, not to horse bump your teammates as cav, not to swing violently in melee and mess up your teammates. Learning discipline as a fighter is vital if you want to be good, and lack of team damage makes it feel super arcade-y.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I physically cannot take the Legionary armor and an Imperial Polearm for example, but the Palatine guard can. I cannot be in heavy armor as a Varyag and carry the Long Two Handed Axe.

Snow balling is addressed in so many games in so many different ways so I don't really see it as an argument.

CSGO would be plagued with snowballing if it wasn't for the way the 'Loser Economy' works. In CSGO if a team begins to lose they are allocated a sum of money representative of how many rounds they've lost in a row. If you lose 2 rounds in a row, you gain more money than you would losing one round after a streak. If you lose 4 rounds in a row you gain a lot more money, making it applicable to buy back after a few rounds of torment from the enemies who bested you on a critical round prior in the game. Now that you've accumulated money through losing a bit, you can make your attempt on equal grounds to take control of the game. This is where skill comes into play.

If Bannerlord is going for skill based competitive instead of Warband's style, they've already started off on the wrong foot on multiple fronts. The game's factions just aren't balanced properly. They also balance a mode where you have multiple of the same unit the same way they balance 6v6 multiplayer. This does not work.

If they swapped it back to Warband's system not only would you see multiplayer players flourish with excitement but I'd be able to take whatever I wanted in whatever combination once I earn that gold amount. It's not about how I'd play different, frankly I don't even want to play Bannerlord MP because I've already had my taste of the beta extensively. It lacks depth, customization, and fun.

It's not even just about me in a Battle server. I want my community to be able to dress our guys how we want them to dress, use the gear loadouts we see as the most viable for a given situation, Bannerlord does not allow that.

You also couldn't take a Swadian footman and take a greataxe or a shield on your Veagir archer? Whats your point? ... but you can take the legionary and a spear and you can take a beserker with armour...

Lets not forget that Warband was FAR from balanced - to the point where one faction was completely removed from Multiplayer. Also the elite scimitar? The most ridiculous weapon in any M&B game ever - to the point that opposing factions to the veagirs would drop their own weapons to pick up the scimitars their opponents died with...

This is pathetic.

Well I give you a solution to your problem? What more do you want?

You said you didn't like something - So i informed you that the thing you didn't like would soon be resolved?

 

[Sundeki]

As it stands there are 9 perks combinations per class, 7 classes per faction and 6 factions. That's 378 possible combinations

But you see this is, whether you intended it or not, a complete misrepresentation. 80% of the classes I play, I don't want any of the second perk options. I don't use any of the second perk options. In Warband, I could take the gold I was given and choose what I wanted in whatever way I wanted. Now I'm given the illusion of choice. You say here:

Tiny tiny changes that made no difference.

Yes, they made plenty of difference. Because if I didn't want to fill my inventory with crap that I didn't want to use, the +4 head armor and +2 body armor from slightly better helmet+gloves has allowed me to survive on 1-2 HP in Warband on hundreds of occasions. Now I get to have equipment choices I don't use, clog up my items (meaning at every single spawn I have to drop crap at the spawn). It's worse in deathmatch. Vlandian Voulgier is the perfect example. I choose 2h sword + spear. I spawn with a 1h sword in my inventory in the second slot and a spear in the third slot. I can't not spawn with the 1h sword. Meaning every single spawn, with enemies right around me, I have to swap to my 1h, drop it, and then swap back to my 2h just to not have that crap getting in the way of me instantly swapping to spear to counter cavalry. It's actually just ridiculous.

Every player just picked the best weapon (which there was 90% of the time only one choice) then selected the best armour for their money and done....

No, they didn't.

Please give me an example of one specific build on warband you can no longer recreate in bannerlord?

Every single non-optimal build I played for just fun.


In Warband, you always had immediate access to the three classes. You could, with starting gold, play a Cav, an Infantry, or an Archer in the beginning, and every faction had those options (except original Khergs, but we don't talk about them) . In Bannerlord Siege, as an example; you're constantly forced into picking gutter garbage, and can't spawn as cav from the beginning. The same is true of TDM. The only gamemode this terrible system works for is Skirmish.

Lets not forget that Warband was FAR from balanced - to the point where one faction was completely removed form Multiplayer.

Warband was balanced. A couple of weapons were a bit off (funny you talk about the elite scimitar when it wasn't even that much better, and was actually weak against armor, but ok dude.), but otherwise Warband multiplayer was one of the most balanced games I've ever played. Khergs don't count for the one simple reason of horse archer, and the faction wasn't unbalanced per se, merely that nobody did/does wants to play against ****ing Horse Archers.