Hunting, Taxi Ships & Spear Combat

[Mooncabbage]

Just a few points I think deserve their own thread:

1) I know it's been mentioned elsewhere that it'd be nice if you could get goods from hunting besides food, but will at any point all the animals stop sounding and acting like horses? Otherwise it might be best to remove the feature entirely.

2) I read somewhere else people saying that buying a ship was pointless if you could simply use the Taxi Ship(s), however I haven't found any, were they removed?

3) Spears are absolutely useless, especially in tournaments. I thought they were used overhand in this period anyway, as part of the shield wall? Anyway, as is, as soon as someone with a shorter, faster weapon comes at you, you're quickly killed, since your only option is to thrust very slowly. I think the speed of spears needs to be increased significantly or something, it feels incredibly unbalanced. I've been fighting with a sword in the game proper though since I could afford one, so perhaps it's not as much of a problem there, although I remember being similarly overwhelmed by Theows when I just started out.

 

[Untitled.]

2. They are there. They take you through a couple of straits. I.E. there's a ferry going from Wales to Cornwall and then to Ireland and another one going from Hibernia to Britannia via the Isle of Man.

3. You'd need to make new animations to implement the overhand spear thrust. I think that's the main reason it's not included.
Also, in tournaments you should ditch the shield. Odds are that you're fighting another guy with a spear and he's hugging you to death. He can, however, only do the thrust move which means you don't really have to pay attention to blocking.
If you hold block he'll stand back a bit and do feign attacks. Wait until he hits you and while he's recovering walk a couple of steps backwards then charge and hit him. Works well on 1v1.
And don't forget to use shield bash (block+attack when wearing a shield) and kick (E by default) if the enemy gets too close.

 

[AlxGvr]

1. Yes, and decrease their hit points. It`s hard to kill them, they like armored greek horses. It is almost impossible to do this with a bow (completely useless weapon for player)
2. They appear automatically when you travel to another island.
3. Spears are good when you are mounted. I think hit in the head can bring some balance: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,196024.0.html

When you use spear in tournament - hide your shield and use it with both hands. Do only swing hits. It works good even with two handed axe guys.

 

[Mooncabbage]

1. Deer or Elk I think they are, are pretty OK HP wise, I've killed them with one good horseback spearing (with some momentum) or 2 or 3 good javelin hits. But yeah, otherwise I agree they are tanks. Wolves are especially odd. Goats move super fast aswell.

2. Oh I thought it was like a boat you hired instead of bought. Thats less fun, I was hoping I could do some part time pirating, oh well.

3. I didn't know you could shield bash! Kicking always just opens me up to getting clobbered, because you drop your shield. Spears are very powerful on horseback, especially long spears as I am currently using, but even so I feel that shorter spears should have a higher attack speed, and probably be overhand (although this is less important than the speed). I'm sure overhand spearing animations could be borrowed from another mod, although I don't know how the M&B mod community is about sharing.

4. What happened to all the bandits. Apart from Dena Pirates/Raiders whatever they are, which only appear in one area, there doesn't appear to be anything! All the theows and bandits have disappeared from my game, along with all the Young Warriors. I have virtually nothing left to fight, without joining a faction, which I am not quite ready to do yet. I'd fight Dena Pirates but it always seems to degenerate to the point where my party is all wiped out and I have to ride around in circles spearing them through the head one at a time.

 

[Untitled.]

1. Deer or Elk I think they are, are pretty OK HP wise, I've killed them with one good horseback spearing (with some momentum) or 2 or 3 good javelin hits. But yeah, otherwise I agree they are tanks. Wolves are especially odd. Goats move super fast aswell.

Agreed.

3. I didn't know you could shield bash! Kicking always just opens me up to getting clobbered, because you drop your shield. Spears are very powerful on horseback, especially long spears as I am currently using, but even so I feel that shorter spears should have a higher attack speed, and probably be overhand (although this is less important than the speed). I'm sure overhand spearing animations could be borrowed from another mod, although I don't know how the M&B mod community is about sharing.

Be careful with the shield bash though. It doesn't always work in tournaments and you'll have to stop walking in order to use it. This means the enemies (assuming there's more than just the one you're stunning) can get time to surround you.
Also, some things are open source, most of them made by cool guys during the beta of the original M&B (I.E. some items and the gunning animation), but AFAIK there are no overhand animations in any M&B mods as of yet.

 

[AlxGvr]

隐藏

 

[Untitled.]

Oh, cool. Which mod is that? I've never seen it

 

[AlxGvr]

With Fire and Sword
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount%26Blade:_With_Fire_%26_Sword

 

[Untitled.]

So that's what it looks like... I just looked at the features for that and it seems to have pretty much the same as some of the average mods around. I'll stick with Brytenwalda for now

 

[Mooncabbage]

WFaS was originally a M&B Native mod, so it's missing a lot of the warband niceties. It's a bit of fun with gunpowder though. Nowhere near as many features as Brytenwalda. I actually found Brytenwalda after I got bored with it.

Am I wrong in thinking the Hellenic mod has overhand spear animations? It'd be appropriate. Anyway the real point is that the spears need to be FASTER. Atleast the Medium variety, Long spears are probably fine being a bit unwieldy, keeps them from being too overpowered on horseback.

 

[andristan]

The Peloponnesian War mod has an overhand thrust animotion, don't know Lynores' attitude about sharing though, he seems friendly enough. . .

 

[Sobakozoid]

I'm not agree that spear is useless. 
It's only a matter of practice and adaptation! I can win tournament easily with new character lvl 1. and normal level of difficulty.
If you wish, I can make a movie and show you that.

 

[Untitled.]

Is Lynores back? Yeah, at least he used to be nice. I'm quite sure he'd be willing to share (at least the know-how, if nothing else). I don't see any reason as to why not.

EDIT: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,143566.0.html Seems he does give out permissions for some stuff.

 

[AlxGvr]

 

[Mooncabbage]

I'm not agree that spear is useless. 
It's only a matter of practice and adaptation! I can win tournament easily with new character lvl 1. and normal level of difficulty.
If you wish, I can make a movie and show you that.

Maybe useless is wrong... but it certainly feels awkward. I suppose part of the problem is the inability in M&B to attack without completely dropping the shield, and the lengthy animation times of the polearms as compared to the swords and axes (two handed axes excluded obviously), make fighting with a spear feel underpowered and unbalanced. Given that spears are so much at the heart of Brytenwalda and what makes it feel real and historical as compared to so many other games and mods, it'd be nice if they got retouched to be a bit more useful.

Really what I want to see with short one handed spears (as opposed to two handed pike style varieties) is a short, sharp jab, with none of the over-reaching as it is now. So I guess for me it's as much about aesthetics as it is about gameplay balance. Spears just feel wrong to me. I want them to be an equally viable main weapon option to swords and axes, instead of something I only use on horseback.

As an aside, I just worked out how to use a javelin in melee (for some reason the weapon mode key was bound to v instead of x), and it's weapon speed/animation time feels a lot closer to what I think is right.

Thoughts?

 

[gamerdude873]

I think the biggest issue of weapon balance is timing. I think that spears and other stabbing weapons need a decent speed boost, while swinging weapons need to have their speed cut some. My char has about 300 skill level in spears, and I find myself using it more than my javelins or short-sword. I think that what we really need to see is faster spears at much lower levels. My two cents anyways, because spears really are frustrating to use at low levels.

 

[Thorgil]

we really need to see is faster spears at much lower levels. My two cents anyways, because spears really are frustrating to use at low levels.

word.

 

[Idibil]

Spears have more speed that in others versions. Are you sure that problem is speed?

 

[Mooncabbage]

Spears have more speed that in others versions. Are you sure that problem is speed?

I definately think that for the shorter combat spears, the speed is too slow. I couldn't say exactly how to balance them, perhaps they should be as fast as swords but do less damage? I mean swords are already in the 30-40 range, maybe spears should be confined to the 20-30 range? It probably needs some playtesting to know what feels right and is balanced.

My Longspear that I use on horseback feels about right to me, it's reasonably slow, but no more than it probably should be, I do have like 210 polearms though.

 

[Sobakozoid]

I have made a new character to show you that spear is good weapon even for lower levels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhDXxJbM39g

-Keep your distance
-Attack your enemy from  the flank
-Use you team to distract the enemy away from you
-When 1 on 1 use spear without shield