How will they fix Sturgia getting completely eliminated in one year, and Khuzait and Vlandia taking half the map in 3 years?

[Trauko]

The problem with Vlandia is Battania.
Its a funny case because if you are in war with Vlandia they will bring the war to your house.
- If you are sturgian, you can take caleus castle but taking more than that is a pain because their other towns are behind natural obtacles and too far away. But, the vlandian will happily march to the north and take the whole western sturgian part.
- If you are playing western empire you can say good bye to Thractorae castle, Veron castle and Lageta. If you ever get to expand and take Sargot, your forces will be too spread out and youll probably end up losing Amitatys.
- Same case for Aserai, get Charaz = free real state in the east, the Khuzait wont have mercy on you.
And of course, Battania sure is next to them and can put a fight for a couple of months, but the battanians have enemies on 5 flanks (vlandia, sturgia, we, ne, aserai) so the moment they start a new war, bam! Dunglanys is red now.

TL;DR: Vlandians dont have to worry about sea attacks and they cities are well covered by natural obstacles, so they can push with no restrictions.

 

[Dabos37]

Yes, but still Vlandia is one of the factions which starts with more amount of towns and clans. Plus autocalc bonus for cavalry makes Vlandia even stronger

 

[MacColin]

You know, in my current playthrough the first faction I joined was Battania. They fared pretty well until that dimwit Caladog startet a war with the Khuzait. But funny thing - and I cannot tell whether it was by accident or poor programming, or just because it was the fief I was currently holding, and the game just wanted to piss me off - the first city to fall on Battanian side was not one at the border, but Marunath! In the heart of the Battanian Kingdom! They ignored all the other cities and went straight to mine with 700 soldiers!

Sturgia was still up and running at that time...

 

[KingEroc1st]

You know, in my current playthrough the first faction I joined was Battania. They fared pretty well until that dimwit Caladog startet a war with the Khuzait. But funny thing - and I cannot tell whether it was by accident or poor programming, or just because it was the fief I was currently holding, and the game just wanted to piss me off - the first city to fall on Battanian side was not one at the border, but Marunath! In the heart of the Battanian Kingdom! They ignored all the other cities and went straight to mine with 700 soldiers!

Sturgia was still up and running at that time...

dude even with an army of 1500, the Khuzaits need to spend a good 2-3 days to build siege camp and kill through your garrison, surely you would have amassed an army by then to defend your town

 

[MacColin]

dude even with an army of 1500, the Khuzaits need to spend a good 2-3 days to build siege camp and kill through your garrison, surely you would have amassed an army by then to defend your town

At this point I was low level, had only very few troops in my party, and my influence was not worth mentioning, so amassing an army at that point wasn't an option. This was very shortly after joining the Battanians.

 

[KingEroc1st]

At this point I was low level, had only very few troops in my party, and my influence was not worth mentioning, so amassing an army at that point wasn't an option. This was very shortly after joining the Battanians.

in that case you were super super lucky to own a town in the first place lol. i always had to personally lead armies and take few towns and castles to have any land given to me.
usually i go as a merc before tier 4 clan. and at that point as a vassal i have my personal army including at least 2 parties led by my companions. this way i have about 3-400 men able to make stuff happen. Also having companion party join your army is FREE, and awards you influence over time (one of the only passive influence gain not nerfed in recent patches, in fact i think they slightly buffed it)

 

[Lordjay]

I juat spent 400 days as a merc for Sturgia and i could not take there land back.Vlandia was attacking us 1k plus men v 500 sturgians kind of state.Took a good while to knock them down after Sturgia strength 4k vlandia 12 k After about 30 days of constant holding Vlandia at bay battania join in 11k strength made a party from one of my companions he laster all of 2 in game days so the grind was real.Picked him back up and decided to hell with it this is getting silly so i installed a mod to help me out a bit recruit prisoners instant.So i am now solo holding back not attacking as i can not as sturgia have no men left and i feel like matt damon on mars.30 more days pass and yep 15k strong Khuzait Decide that little one army of 150 at this time is to much for both the battanians and the Vlandians to handle so thet also declare.So i think the war system aand Sturgia are dooomed

 

[OpenMindedPl]

Just execute few of them, it would slow them down and let you easily defend the Sturgians

 

[Batbold]

Actually, before great mongol invasion early Russian factions successfully fought steppe tribes. Also, Rus was never completely conquered even by mongols. So yeah, shieldwalls and melee combat is pretty effective outside of steppes, where is cavalry have overthelming advantage.

Russian Principalities were under Golden Horde rule during time of Tatar Yoke, a 200 year period. Down south by Kiev Slavic rule was mostly replaced by Mongol.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

well to be fair - HISTORICALY - strugia-like factions didnt lasted long, while europeans and mongols kicked everybody arround for ages
its just a fact that cavalary and long range weaponry is superior to shield walls and meele combat

Mongols weren't much good at sieging castles through. They tore around causing problems in the open field, but they weren't yoinking up castles and cities like they do in Bannerlord.

That being said I'm not much of a fan of history impacting game balance or stuff like fun. If you make a weak faction that it's near impossible for the player to support (Northern Empire, Sturgia, Battania to a lesser extent) then you have essentially removed a faction choice from the player, and made the game less replayable. The same is true of making overly powerful factions because history says they should be powerful. Obvious choices are really no choices at all, and besides, having an easy ride with the Vlandians or Khuzait gets boring quick.

 

[Alrav23]

***I personally think all kingdoms should be given equal number of Clans/ClanTiers/Familysizes/. Battania/Sturgia currently have around a total of 23-25* accumulated Clan Tiers; While Every other factions has 30*+... # of Ai parties/per clan makes a huge difference in game. Essentially you have less lords running around for these factions to defend themselves, not to mention geographical advantages and starting fief/prosperity differences.

 

[Narg]

***I personally think all kingdoms should be given equal number of Clans/ClanTiers/Familysizes/. Battania/Sturgia currently have around a total of 23-25* accumulated Clan Tiers; While Every other factions has 30*+... # of Ai parties/per clan makes a huge difference in game. Essentially you have less lords running around for these factions to defend themselves, not to mention geographical advantages and starting fief/prosperity differences.

I'm fine with some countries having less population/towns/ai parties than others but then they need to have some else that makes up for it, be it geographical or diplomatic.

 

[Sheepify]

Sturgia also has the least prosperity potential of all factions, since majority of their towns are two-village-only. Didn't count the number of villages themselves - is it proportional to others?

Anyway, first step in solving this issue, IMO, would be to assassinate the twit Raganvad with his "War declaration for you! War declaration for you! War declaration for everyone!" mentality.

Though it's mainly geography. Unless Sturgia rebel-fractures into two separate kingdoms (that maintain peace), or there is some hard-coded preference toward force presence on THREE points of their territory (the "we gonna lose that castle anyway" border with Vlandia north of Battania, the "you lose it, you don't recover" Omor and surroundings that Western Empire loves to take over, and the "No horses in Tyal" hotspot), Sturgia doesn't really have much of a chance.

They need not just "no snow movement penalty" but general "infantry is faster" movement bonus just to avoid their armies spending most of their time bouncing between already-lost settlements. I'd also add to it much greater snow movement penalty for cavalry, so that Khuzait doesn't just get to roll them with parties they can never catch.

 

[Zwade]

If you are playing western empire you can say good bye to Thractorae castle, Veron castle and Lageta

In all the games I've played, Lageta is the most contested town in history. It changes hands so often it's ridiculous.

 

[Sheepify]

In all the games I've played, Lageta is the most contested town in history. It changes hands so often it's ridiculous.

Being a commoner anywhere near Lageta is worse than living in some modern ganglander wasteland.

You wear the wrong colors there, you might get shot. You wear the wrong colors in Butterlord, your whole village gets raided.

"Daad, who are we this week, again?"

One of my most recent playthroughs in the older versions had Aserai, of all the factions, ride up there through Vlandia-controlled ex-Western-Empire territory to take a town nowhere near their own lands for whatever reason. At this point, I think the game is meme-trolling us with this.

*Skynet intensifies*

 

[Apocal]

I juat spent 400 days as a merc for Sturgia and i could not take there land back.Vlandia was attacking us 1k plus men v 500 sturgians kind of state.Took a good while to knock them down after Sturgia strength 4k vlandia 12 k After about 30 days of constant holding Vlandia at bay battania join in 11k strength made a party from one of my companions he laster all of 2 in game days so the grind was real.Picked him back up and decided to hell with it this is getting silly so i installed a mod to help me out a bit recruit prisoners instant.So i am now solo holding back not attacking as i can not as sturgia have no men left and i feel like matt damon on mars.30 more days pass and yep 15k strong Khuzait Decide that little one army of 150 at this time is to much for both the battanians and the Vlandians to handle so thet also declare.So i think the war system aand Sturgia are dooomed

Though it's mainly geography. Unless Sturgia rebel-fractures into two separate kingdoms (that maintain peace), or there is some hard-coded preference toward force presence on THREE points of their territory (the "we gonna lose that castle anyway" border with Vlandia north of Battania, the "you lose it, you don't recover" Omor and surroundings that Western Empire loves to take over, and the "No horses in Tyal" hotspot), Sturgia doesn't really have much of a chance.

They need not just "no snow movement penalty" but general "infantry is faster" movement bonus just to avoid their armies spending most of their time bouncing between already-lost settlements. I'd also add to it much greater snow movement penalty for cavalry, so that Khuzait doesn't just get to roll them with parties they can never catch.

Back when I was observing playthroughs, I found that Tyal was the cause of the snowball rolling against Sturgia. There is only one narrow path in and no other way out, so if anyone goes into Tyal (to recruit, buy food, etc.) and the Khuzaits or Northern Empire ride up with an army, they have no way to avoid the fight, regardless of speed. The real key point in the east is Urikskala Castle. Maybe the AI could be taught to rob Tyal's garrison for troops to help relieve or recover Urikskala Castle, since Tyal's food supply is in part bound to Urikskala's fish and it is not defensible otherwise?

As for Sturgian bonuses, I think there should be harsher winter penalties and those penalties -- across all unit types, not just horses -- should only grow more intense the further north you go, with Sturgian culture lords being either partially or entirely immune. It would make conquering Sturgia a hassle to offset their poor geography and it would emphasize their strengths in a way that wouldn't just be a pure home-field advantage since winter snow spreads across about 70% of the map.

 

[Althix]

Sturgia also has the least prosperity potential of all factions

except for Smithy in Varnovapol and Wool weaver in Tyal there is no reason to waste denars on workshops in other towns. For example in my Southern Empire PT, the worst income from the workshop i have is 189, and the best one is 471. When with Sturgia 224 is the current best.

I'm trying another Sturgia PT, because the last one has been erased due to the following event. after defeating 1400 units strong Khuzait army, with only 46 men battle-ready left, i encountered 2014 units strong Khuzait army one week later. I think AI should follow the same rules as a player. This means AI should be restricted by the number of horses available and by the number of recruits available.

Basically the only way i see to how to survive as Sturgia, is to decapitate each and every captured lord.

 

[Apocal]

I'm trying another Sturgia PT, because the last one has been erased due to the following event. after defeating 1400 units strong Khuzait army, with only 46 men battle-ready left, i encountered 2014 units strong Khuzait army one week later. I think AI should follow the same rules as a player. This means AI should be restricted by the number of horses available and by the number of recruits available.

Those were certainly different armies, not one army respawning.

It is completely normal and natural for a faction to roll around with 3000 total in armies. If there are long periods of peace, factions will not only have nearly full parties for every lord, but also garrisons pushing right up against food limitations, leaving them with a deep, deep bench of reserve troops to pull from. Players can basically do this as well -- albeit without as much in the way of passive gains -- along with getting the added benefit of looted horses from defeated parties; AI lords' loot after battle is instantly converted into denars. If you stack 300 Khan's Guards and 200 Druzhnik Champions into a garrison, there isn't anything stopping you from stripping some of those men out to rebuild your party after a wipe.

I do agree that being able to upgrade into mounted units w/o having to possess horses is an issue, but that's going to need to come with making stud villages a lot more productive than they are now.

One upside to the Khuzaits snatching Northern Empire territory is that their parties with fiefs in those regions generally have far more Imperial recruits than Khuzaits and move much slower on the map as a result. It is still out of line with other parties, but a decent player party should have no problem fleeing from or pursuing them.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Before this, I have never heard someone call the Kuzait's T5 cav the best in the game.

I don't know if they're the best 1v1 but they can be amassed much easier then any other Cav!
My Cav is always a mash up of free guys from prisoners and what not, but if I was looking to make a full pack of Heavy Cav I'd grab khuziat nomads for sure.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I feel like this issue is much improved in 1.4.2. Khuzait are by far the fastest to expand and most resilient but with some push back from the player they can be kept in check. That said I think there's work to be done for sure but it need some more holistic changes then just 'make khuziats suck'.

I think AI should follow the same rules as a player. This means AI should be restricted by the number of horses available and by the number of recruits available.

This is key IMO. This would really reduce the bounce back which is them most annoying thing to the player IMO. This would mean once they're defeated they would have a significant drop in power since it would take time (or sometimes be impossible) to collect enough mounts for too many mounted units. This could also mean the AI going the footman/archer rout which would make them slower (if perk works correctly) and less powerful in auto-calc battles.

Another idea I like would be to have the Khuzait split into two faction in civil war if they obtain a certain amount of fiefs. This could provide a good break for other factions to re-build and a opportunity to fight back.

I really want all the AI free-stuff junk to be removed, but I could see allowing some help for weaker factions that really need it to stay in the game.
Khuzaits however do not need free troops or horses at all and it's very abusive of this feature as they spawn and very rapidly can resume attacks on you. All factions kinda do this but it's very noticeable with Khuzait and to a lesser degree Vlandia.