How will they fix Sturgia getting completely eliminated in one year, and Khuzait and Vlandia taking half the map in 3 years?

[NecroVane]

The AI lords dont have to spend horses to make cavalry, and cavalry get simulation advantages. This is why khuzait and vlandia typically do well, if you actually fight against them you realize pretty quickly their armies are like 2/3 cavalry, which is completely unrealistic on such a large scale simply based on the warhorse requirements alone. When i go up against an army of 900-1000 khuzaits, i shouldnt be fighting against 300 heavy lancers and 300 heavy horse archers. Even if you bought every single warhorse available in the khuzait lands from the start of the game(since AI lords dont go to other lands to buy goods), it would take like 400 in-game days to get that many warhorses, yet the khuzait lords just pump out hundreds of heavy cav like its nothing.

All this cavalry also makes them move way quicker on the campaign map, so when they form armies they dont move like slugs.

Vlandia is fairly balanced unit wise, if even a bit weak with their sergeants randomly deciding to become bad 2h infantry instead of the shield wall infantry they are supposed to be, crossbows generally being weak as ranged units right now, and their tier 5 heavy cav being a joke compared to khuzaits. However, bad cavalry in simulations is still cavalry, so when vlandian lords are running around with several hundred heavy cav, they still have move speed and simulation advantages.

Khuzaits on the other hand need a nerf, why do they have by far the best t5 heavy cav in the game, as well as having t2 horse archers and t3 light cav, their archers are tied for the best t5 normal line archers as well as great infantry? Their t2 infantry have better shields than most t5 infantry of other civs FFS, and their units have really heavy armor for what is supposed to be a mongol/steppe tribe faction. They clearly imbalanced the khuzaits in an effort to avoid them being awful like the khergits were in warband, but all it results in is an annoying horse archer faction being dominant in every single campaign.

 

[Apocal]

Khuzaits on the other hand need a nerf, why do they have by far the best t5 heavy cav in the game...

Before this, I have never heard someone call the Kuzait's T5 cav the best in the game.

 

[zMasterofPie]

Sturgia should have better armored infantry with better stats, buff spears, also idk if this is possible at this point but its dumb af that Tyal is shielded from its own faction by a mountain. It makes it easy for the Khuzaits to take Tyal. They should edit the map and put the mountain in between Sturgia and the Khuzait Khanate.

 

[MacColin]

Sturgia should have better armored infantry with better stats, buff spears, also idk if this is possible at this point but its dumb af that Tyal is shielded from its own faction by a mountain. It makes it easy for the Khuzaits to take Tyal. They should edit the map and put the mountain in between Sturgia and the Khuzait Khanate.

Or at least put Tyal not right in front of the Khuzaits - silver plate anyone? I think it is easier to move the settlement than to overhaul the map.

 

[Apocal]

Sturgia should have better armored infantry with better stats, buff spears, also idk if this is possible at this point but its dumb af that Tyal is shielded from its own faction by a mountain. It makes it easy for the Khuzaits to take Tyal. They should edit the map and put the mountain in between Sturgia and the Khuzait Khanate.

Tyal isn't the the only one; Husn Fulq down in the south is technically part of the Aserai Sultanate but give it a few months in-game and it won't be. It is a big missed opportunity to have geography inform the natural borders of the different factions.

Or at least put Tyal not right in front of the Khuzaits - silver plate anyone? I think it is easier to move the settlement than to overhaul the map.

Every faction has at least one town that is right there for its enemies to take. The Northern Empire can damned-near just waltz right in and take Makeb from the Khuzaits; the Khuzaits can do the same to Amprela. Aserai gets a free shot at Danaustica while the Southern Empire has an incredibly easy time snatching Husn Fulq.

 

[NecroVane]

Before this, I have never heard someone call the Kuzait's T5 cav the best in the game.

I didnt say best cav, i said best t5 heavy cav. The only cavalry better than heavy lancers are t6 noble line units like banner knights and cataphracts, and heavy lancers compete very well with even those. If you compare the stats on heavy lancers to vlandian gallants or battanian horsemen, it's a joke; better horse, better lance, better armor.

 

[AfLIcTeD]

Or at least put Tyal not right in front of the Khuzaits - silver plate anyone? I think it is easier to move the settlement than to overhaul the map.

All that empty space in Sturgia territory and they spread their fiefs out as far as possible.

 

[Gelimer]

I didnt say best cav, i said best t5 heavy cav. The only cavalry better than heavy lancers are t6 noble line units like banner knights and cataphracts, and heavy lancers compete very well with even those. If you compare the stats on heavy lancers to vlandian gallants or battanian horsemen, it's a joke; better horse, better lance, better armor.

Khuzait also have Khan Guards, they destroy Cataphracts in melee with their polearm and still have a far superior killing potential with their bow and arrows. Basically no weakness, the ultimate unit.

No doubt that with Sturgia being on the weaker side unit wise ( not only geography or auto resolve disadvantage since they dont use much cav but also because spear thrust damage ingame is somewhat underpowered ) Khuzait stands out as kinda OP.

The problem as was said above is their low tier units are too good for a steppe faction, the armour rating of some of their foot units could do with a heavy nerf..

I think that it is okay that they rely on a large cavalry force, it makes sense for a Hunnic/Mongol/"Turkic" faction though it would be nice if they would pay for their horses like the player has to.

Also I dont think it is bad that they get horse archers at tier2, it is supposed to be their basic unit. For me the issue lies with the armor ratings of some of their foot units and the fact that the natural counter to elite heavy cavalry ( pikes, spears thrust damage ) is modelled a bit on the weak side IMO .

 

[Apocal]

I didnt say best cav, i said best t5 heavy cav. The only cavalry better than heavy lancers are t6 noble line units like banner knights and cataphracts, and heavy lancers compete very well with even those. If you compare the stats on heavy lancers to vlandian gallants or battanian horsemen, it's a joke; better horse, better lance, better armor.

I understood what you meant and what I said still applies. I've just never heard people praising heavy lancers' capabilities before.

 

[NecroVane]

Well, it finally happened. After 280 hours played, and about 100 different campaigns started....the khuzaits actually lost a city AND Tyal is still under sturgian control at the same time.



I guess miracles really do occur.

 

[KingEroc1st]

the reason these 2 factions are dominant is because they are on the sides of the map not because they have more cavalry units, cavalry units are underpowered at the moment so it would only make them weaker. Although the horse archers are OP, Khuzaits don't use them very efficiently.

because they are on the sides of the map, they don't have to fight multi front wars getting sandwiched front and back. the Aserai to their south are rarely at odds against them which allows them to focus all their efforts north vs the northern empire and sturgia (the 2 factions that get eliminated first in everyone of my playthroughs).

the problem in this game is that certain factions will vote to go to war when they are already at war with enough people. they'll go to war with a neighbour when it will open them up to get sandwiched from both sides. this even happens to my own kingdom. i have to save 500 influence for veto rights just in case my vassals suddenly start a vote to war against people when we aren't ready.

 

[kweassa]

By introducing the concept of "war goals" and "war justification," to stop the random chance factor acting negatively to certain kingdoms that inherently have a higher chance of being declared war upon by multiple enemies.

 

[kweassa]

the reason these 2 factions are dominant is because they are on the sides of the map not because they have more cavalry units, cavalry units are underpowered at the moment so it would only make them weaker. Although the horse archers are OP, Khuzaits don't use them very efficiently.

because they are on the sides of the map, they don't have to fight multi front wars getting sandwiched front and back. the Aserai to their south are rarely at odds against them which allows them to focus all their efforts north vs the northern empire and sturgia (the 2 factions that get eliminated first in everyone of my playthroughs).

the problem in this game is that certain factions will vote to go to war when they are already at war with enough people. they'll go to war with a neighbour when it will open them up to get sandwiched from both sides. this even happens to my own kingdom. i have to save 500 influence for veto rights just in case my vassals suddenly start a vote to war against people when we aren't ready.

^^^ This.

Contrary to popular belief, the battle calc has nothing do with it, like, at all.

At the beginning of the game all kingdoms are engaged in a war with someone. Around the time this "initial war" is resolved in a few kingdoms, it comes down to a random chance that a new "set" of wars will break out. And at this "dice roll" of a situation, a few kingdoms happen to get caught up in a war at multiple fronts.

As it turns out, Sturgia is simply the most likely to be caught up in multiple wars against multiple enemies, due to a weak strategic location. If for any reason the "cast of the die" is unlikely favorable to Sturgia, and they are NOT caught in a war while finishing the initial war with Vlandia without much losses, they tend to survive much longer.

Likewise, empirically a very low chance, but when the RNG hits bad for the Khuzaits, no amount of "cavalry autocalc" is going to help them survive when they are declared war on by 2~3 enemies at once.

 

[geala]

It is also random to a certain extent. In my current campaign Sturgia fares very well. Battania, my faction, however is at war with three other factions and really gets gutted. The declaration of war and making of peace sometimes is borderline stupid in this game. And the factions are not placed very well. Coupled with the endless settlement conquer-lose-loop, the impossibility to do something decisive against factions without severe and not very logical consequences and, above all, the bad super speed battles, the fun factor for me is declining. Problem is that these "features" are deeply baked into the core game and will not change presumably.

 

[Raggs]

Travel speed for Khuzait is going to help. A lot easier to win wars when you can avoid bad engagements and force good ones more easily.

 

[Lordjay]

Yes Vlandia always strong them sharpshooters

 

[Sidrath]

^^^ This.

Contrary to popular belief, the battle calc has nothing do with it, like, at all.

At the beginning of the game all kingdoms are engaged in a war with someone. Around the time this "initial war" is resolved in a few kingdoms, it comes down to a random chance that a new "set" of wars will break out. And at this "dice roll" of a situation, a few kingdoms happen to get caught up in a war at multiple fronts.

As it turns out, Sturgia is simply the most likely to be caught up in multiple wars against multiple enemies, due to a weak strategic location. If for any reason the "cast of the die" is unlikely favorable to Sturgia, and they are NOT caught in a war while finishing the initial war with Vlandia without much losses, they tend to survive much longer.

Likewise, empirically a very low chance, but when the RNG hits bad for the Khuzaits, no amount of "cavalry autocalc" is going to help them survive when they are declared war on by 2~3 enemies at once.

I feel the need to chime in on this one, with a thread I wrote about 1.4.1 during its 'Broken Diplomacy' phase.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/1-4-1s-broken-diplomacy-and-what-we-can-learn-from-it.425008/

AI was unable to start or end any wars unless it was against a faction the player had joined. This meant in turn that 1.4.1 could be used, at the time, as a test bed for how each faction fares 1v1 against their initial opponent, with ZERO risk of a war on a second front. Please note the outcomes of simulations in the thread, including ones added by other players: within as little as 4 years, Sturgia always loses to Vlandia 1v1 and Northern Empire always loses to Khuzait 1v1. This does not require another war to kick in, and points explicitly to faction inequalities, be it autocalc, movement speed (a big plus for Khuzait given that their cultural bonus does not currently work as intended), starting settlement wealth, etc. Vlandia and Khuzait's superiority is very real, even without the strategic benefit of a safe border on the edge of the map.

 

[Old-Bull]

I feel the need to chime in on this one, with a thread I wrote about 1.4.1 during its 'Broken Diplomacy' phase.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/1-4-1s-broken-diplomacy-and-what-we-can-learn-from-it.425008/

AI was unable to start or end any wars unless it was against a faction the player had joined. This meant in turn that 1.4.1 could be used, at the time, as a test bed for how each faction fares 1v1 against their initial opponent, with ZERO risk of a war on a second front. Please note the outcomes of simulations in the thread, including ones added by other players: within as little as 4 years, Sturgia always loses to Vlandia 1v1 and Northern Empire always loses to Khuzait 1v1. This does not require another war to kick in, and points explicitly to faction inequalities, be it autocalc, movement speed (a big plus for Khuzait given that their cultural bonus does not currently work as intended), starting settlement wealth, etc. Vlandia and Khuzait's superiority is very real, even without the strategic benefit of a safe border on the edge of the map.

Nice work. I guess I didn't figure out why no one else ever made peace with or declared war on anyone else.

 

[Narg]

Travel speed for Khuzait is going to help. A lot easier to win wars when you can avoid bad engagements and force good ones more easily.

+1
This lets them have a more high-tier army easier since their lords lose less often (their lords nearly always manages to outrun a stronger enemy lord they don't want to fight). In my experience at least.

 

[Raggs]

+1
This lets them have a more high-tier army easier since their lords lose less often (their lords nearly always manages to outrun a stronger enemy lord they don't want to fight). In my experience at least.

An interesting and significant knock on effect.